INFO-VAX Thu, 16 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 447 Contents: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Hobby Itanium to run VMS? Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? RE: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Re: Node & Port allocation classes on a new cluster Re: Storageworks SAN Switches: possible to reset password ? Re: Storageworks SAN Switches: possible to reset password ? RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: X Window Servers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:05:02 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Message-ID: <5igucgF3p25fcU1@mid.individual.net> On 2007-08-15 18:28, "FredK" wrote: > [...] But get > serious and ask yourself the question of why Compaq (or HP for that matter) > would want to rely on IBM for their large systems business? Why didn't IBM ^^^^^^^^^^^ > adopt Alpha rather than invest in Power? Why doesn't SUN adopt POWER > instead of the slowly dying SPARC? Wasn't there a "second source" for POWER chips? (Motorola?) > Give it a little thought and remember what was available at the time, and > who is now and will remain the largest chip maker and investor in new ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > process and FABs? I don't see any relation between "size" and "quality" at all -- and "(chip fabbing) process refinements" and "architectural improvements" are totally unrelated as well. Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:26:00 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Message-ID: FredK schrieb: > Why didn't IBM > adopt Alpha rather than invest in Power? Maybe because Power was on the market way before alpha ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:20:55 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:28:16 -0700, FredK wrote: > > "Michael Unger" wrote in message > news:5igm25F3ogoalU1@mid.individual.net... >> On 2007-08-14 15:37, "FredK" wrote: >> >>> [...] >>> >>> The switch to IPF was the realization that investment in chip FABs was >>> too >>> high to be sustained by individual computer companies in the long run. >>> Now, >>> the pocket protector set can complain about EPIC. With little doubt >>> IPF >>> was >>> initially very disappointing performance wise. A case can be made that >>> in >>> retrospect, the 64-bit x86 might have been a better choice for VMS - >>> but >>> it >>> wasn't a choice when the decision was made. Nor is it a reasonable >>> choice >>> for big-endian UNIX implementations and user bases. >> >> Has POWER even been considered at *any* time?? Or was there a decision >> "It must be Intel!" and later on "What architecture to choose?" >> > > They didn't bring me into the discussions, so I can't say. Nor was it a > VMS > decision. It was a high level corporate decision by Compaq. But get > serious and ask yourself the question of why Compaq (or HP for that > matter) > would want to rely on IBM for their large systems business? Why didn't > IBM > adopt Alpha rather than invest in Power? Because Power was far better thought out and actually antedated Alpha. Why doesn't SUN adopt POWER > instead of the slowly dying SPARC? Because a number of people likely have their prestige associated with it. > > Give it a little thought and remember what was available at the time, and > who is now and will remain the largest chip maker and investor in new > process and FABs? > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:28:40 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: Graham Burley schrieb: > The hardware was in Florida, it's now in North Carolina. The owner > is in Florida, with admin assists in Europe (Belgium & UK) and US. So, who is actually going to press the reset button ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:46:34 -0500 From: bradhamilton@comcast.net (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: In article <5igdh1F3ok103U1@mid.individual.net>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >In article <8Y1$PmKZ+ph9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) writes: >> In article , "P. Sture" writes: >>> Has the Deathrow cluster failed again? [...] >Is it just me or do others find the reliability (or lack thereof) of >this "VMS cluster" rather ironic? It's just you (and Ron Johnson). :-) Seriously, though - I don't think the "owners" of Deathrow have ever made any claim to having an optimal VMS cluster - they are limited by things like budget, dedicated time, and (as has been previously pointed out) lack of dual-pathed disk HW and enclosures. The folks at Deathrow have asked for contributions of HW. I have a number of surplus SCSI disk drives, but nothing in the way of enclosures or spare SCSI controllers. Perhaps with enough time and contributions, an optimal cluster could be built. Something that could put Beowulf and other "clusters" to shame. :-) [...] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:05:55 -0700 From: "winston19842005@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: <1187240755.868419.39290@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 1:00 pm, burley.not-t...@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) wrote: > In article <1187191824.322695.122...@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinha...@yahoo.com" writes: > > > IIRC the hardware is in a data center in Forida and the administrators > > are in Europe or Great Britain. > > The hardware was in Florida, it's now in North Carolina. The owner > is in Florida, with admin assists in Europe (Belgium & UK) and US. Oops, sorry, you really should improve your security! ;) Just kidding. But I was on last night under DEMO, and it is suspicious that it went down after I was on... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:17:23 -0700 From: "winston19842005@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: <1187241443.432548.9800@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Aug 16, 1:05 am, "winston19842...@yahoo.com" wrote: > On Aug 15, 1:00 pm, burley.not-t...@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham > > Burley) wrote: > > In article <1187191824.322695.122...@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinha...@yahoo.com" writes: > > > > IIRC the hardware is in a data center in Forida and the administrators > > > are in Europe or Great Britain. > > > The hardware was in Florida, it's now in North Carolina. The owner > > is in Florida, with admin assists in Europe (Belgium & UK) and US. > > Oops, sorry, you really should improve your security! ;) > Just kidding. But I was on last night under DEMO, and it is suspicious > that it went down after I was on... Ah! I see your problem! Got "Out of Office" replies on sending this response above. One of them was from the eds.com domain. EDS! No wonder you are having problems... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:22:49 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: On 08/15/07 08:47, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: [snip] > > A linux box I'm hosting is certainly far more problematic. In fact, about > 15-20 hours into operation, its ethernet connection starts spewing packet > fragments at an alarming rate. The 'temporary' solution has been a crontab > entry to reboot the box every 12 hours. This same ethernet card works like > a dream when installed in a VMS machine. That's *highly* unusual. There are *many* net-facing Linux web and ftp servers with 3-digit uptimes. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2007 19:48:14 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: Elliott Roper wrote: > Update: > It is now a much smaller pile, changes below. Probably not worth > bothering with unless you are close and are really keen for spares. > 5 x 4000 VLC Wish you were close to me, rather than being on another continent. I can't believe no one has grabbed these. Five of them would be rather fun. I use a VLC as my DECnet router for HECnet. Zane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:58:20 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article , healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > Elliott Roper wrote: > > Update: > > It is now a much smaller pile, changes below. Probably not worth > > bothering with unless you are close and are really keen for spares. > > > > 5 x 4000 VLC > > Wish you were close to me, rather than being on another continent. I can't > believe no one has grabbed these. Five of them would be rather fun. I use > a VLC as my DECnet router for HECnet. The VLC stands for "very low cost". At the time, that was true compared to other VAXen, though the new price then would be considered expensive today, even not allowing for inflation. However, due to their small size and thus small power requirements, they are also very low cost with respect to power consumption. Build a cluster of such machines and configure a more powerful node as a satellite and switch it on only when you need it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:54:23 -0800 From: glen herrmannsfeldt Subject: Hobby Itanium to run VMS? Message-ID: What is the lowest model of Itanium machine that will run VMS? I am interested as a hobbyist, so the price has to be low. I believe that some of the early Itanium I systems are reasonably priced, and maybe also Itanium II machines. Or maybe I need to wait a little longer. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:55:02 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <1187211302.477031.208470@g12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 7:54 am, vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca wrote: > On Aug 14, 4:15 pm, vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca wrote: > > > > > Hi everybody > > I have a auto-resubmiting daily disk cleaning job. It is submitted at > > startup and should be resubmitting itself after running every day at > > 8h00. Yesterday, I noticed I now have 3 entries for the same job, all > > waiting to execute at the same time. Notwithstanding the fact that > > some startup job is submitting the batch more than once(I will need to > > find it!), I need to add code to my DCL procedure to verify that only > > one job is present. > > > What is the usual way to detect that there is only one instance/job/ > > batch of the procedure running daily ? What code can I use in DCL to > > verify that I have only one version of the batch job present in the > > queue ? Can you provide examples ? > > > Here is a part of my cleaning.com procedure: > > > $ datelog = f$cvtime("tomorrow","comparison","date") > > $ submit /queue=sys$batch /noprinter /nonotify /restart /log=my > > $log:cleaning-'datelog'.log - > > /after="tomorrow+08:" cleaning.com > > $ delete my$log:*.log;*/cre/before=today-30-0 > > $ ... > > > Yesterday, I had 3 entries waiting to execute at 8h00. I would like > > entries 2 and 3 to kill themselves if there is already a same job > > present in the queue. Notice all 3 will be begin executing in the same > > split second. > > Suggestions ? Examples ? Links to code ? > > TIA > > Van > > Thanks to all that responded with their suggestions. Since my jobs try > to execute at the same time, I chose to add the set process/name=XXX > command and check the $status. Looks like the following: > > $ Set NoOn > $ Set Process/Name="CLEANING" > $ if( .not. $status ) > $ then > $ write sys$output " Duplicate process name error !" > $ exit > $ endif > $ submit .... > $ delete ... > I will now search why I have more than 1 job. I am pretty sure the > startup procedure only submits one job. Could it be that the job is > kept in the queue after a reboot ? Which is why have to do something special for startup. Sorry for my overly simplified example before. If you allow me to expand on it a bit: I prefer to use a single submitter/scheduler in startup to make life easier. You simply have it define/sys a logical that contains the start-time or the value of your choice and if it finds the logical already set, it just exits. For no reason other than personal preference, I don't like to use SET PROC/NAME. Instead, I use the SUBMIT/NAME=name. By making the name significant and unique, you can check it *before* you submit it. In my lame example, IMPORTANT_JOB is actually 4 characters that signify the type of job (BUP_, CLN_, etc), and are also used as the first 4 characters of the "real" file name. I've found 3 or 4 characters are enough to at least hint at the job's purpose in show/sys. The scheduler (or self-submitting job) will parse the submit/after's datetime to an 11 character string, and append that to the prefix. nb: I've set a base year of 1900 and use, for a job scheduled to run tomorrow for example, f$cvtime("TOMORROW",,"YEAR") - 1900 to get a 3 digit year string to gain an extra character in the prefix (I'll let whoever's around in 2899 worry about roll-over;-) I next parse out MMDDHHMM and append that to the prefix+year. So a Backup job scheduled for 15-AUG-2007 01:00 will be named BUP_10708150100. If more than one job needs to run , I'd use BU1_, BU2_ or BUPA, BUPB, etc. I also use submit's /PARAM= option on many jobs to test for special instructions. Also, some jobs I might want to run manually between scheduled batch runs. So, if the job finds itself running interactively, it checks P1 .eq. "NOW" (or whatever) and steps into some prompting, skipping the batch stuff. Hope that makes more sense to you. Sorry about the earlier over- editing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:29:53 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <1187213393.514780.325330@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 3:55 pm, Doug Phillips wrote: > On Aug 15, 7:54 am, vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca wrote: > > > > I've > found 3 or 4 characters are enough to at least hint at the job's > purpose in show/sys. > Before I get pedantated, I of course meant SHOW QUE. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:05:27 -0400 From: "Carl Friedberg" Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <890539d90708152105n5410edadrf8f1e5009e49d988@mail.gmail.com> On 8/15/07, AEF wrote: > But the job will be there. It's running! And that doesn't protect from > an unknown submitter submitting another instance of the job at a later > time. > There's always your job. If that's the only one, you resubmit. If there's another one, you don't resubmit. That logic is in the .shell. Carl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:14:05 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: <46C396CD.48586B11@spam.comcast.net> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > > In article <46C24D98.84FDC435@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > >Keith Parris wrote: > >> > >> David J Dachtera wrote: > >> > It now appears there never was an intent to continue VMS past Itanic. > >> > >> I've seen public statements that the work done for the Itanium port > >> makes future ports easier, and even that HP _expects_ to port to other > >> architectures in the future -- that's just the way things go: whole new > >> sets of CPU architectures/technology arise in the industry every decade > >> or so. > >> > >> > HP's > >> > intent was to supplant VMS with UX and the only way to do that was to eliminate > >> > VMS's operating platforms: first Alpha as a condition of the Compaq merger, now > >> > Itanic, apparently the hidden part of agenda. > >> > >> There's a fatal flaw in this logic: HP-UX runs on Itanium too, so > >> eliminating Itanium would eliminate the HP-UX platform too. Better find > >> a better hypothesis. :-) > > > >Try again. See the "binary Compatibility" page: > >http://www.intel.com/cd/ids/developer/asmo-na/eng/technologies/64bit/170114.htm?page=4 > >(URL is likely to have wrapped) > > > >"Interestingly, binaries for Hewlett-Packard's PA-RISC architecture > >can also be run without modification. To run these binaries, sites > >must use Aries* software that HP will bundle with all its systems. > >Aries performs two primary functions: it performs dynamic translation > >of PA-RISC binaries into native 64-bit processor instructions for > >immediate execution, and it performs interpretation of other, lesser- > >used PA-RISC commands" > > > The target for Aries is Itanium. To a first approximation think VEST/AEST. > See > > http://devresource.hp.com/drc/STK/docs/refs/Aries.jsp > > >...., ostensibly a form of "PEST" (PA-RISC Executable (S?) Translation) for > >PA-RISC executables. So, porting to EM64T is likely to not be a huge issue for > >UX, except perhaps where "endianness" is concerned. > > You would first need to rewrite Aries to target EM64T. O.k. What did I miss here? An EM64T article says, "binaries for Hewlett-Packard's PA-RISC architecture can also be run without modification. To run these binaries, sites must use Aries* software that HP will bundle with all its systems." (Note that the asterisk ("*") is unresolved. See the URL cited above for confirmation.) The implications are that Aries can be used to run PA-RISC binaries (privileged code issues were not singled out) on EM64T. Check article again; however, I'm not detecting any contextual ambiguities that would support your statement, unless the article is intentionally being ambiguous and misleading. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:57:15 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: <001301c7dfc1$eaf622f0$c0e268d0$@com> > > Regarding userland code: there's no law that says that userland must > > be open source. (After all, Oracle makes a pretty penny selling > > licenses for RDBMSs that run on Linux.) > > > > Sure they do, but for them the platform does not matter as they charge > the > same for Oracle on Windows, Linux, OpenVMS, Solaris, HP-UX etc. The > only > real difference is in the area of multi-socket systems. > > The challenge is how to increase the scalability of Oracle on Linux > when > changes are required at the kernel level. That is one area where IBM > (DB2/AIX) > and Microsoft (SQL Server) have a big advantage over Oracle ie. they > control > the OS kernel and the DB. > > [sidebar note - it was stated at one time that one of the primary > design > factors that go into Windows kernel is how to make SQL Server run > better.] > > Do you think this is lost on Oracle? > Well, not to belabor the point, but it is not a major exercise to add a module to the kernel, even one that makes major changes in behavior. Or to issue a special purpose version of Linux with a modified kernel. IBM does this with tape drivers, DB/2, etc. This rather makes the idea of a very stable controlled kernel attractive to companies like IBM. Especially when they sell mainframe systems because of Linux. :) -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:24:13 +0200 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: Node & Port allocation classes on a new cluster Message-ID: issinoho wrote: > On the subject of using the 2nd LAN card for SCS traffic, how exactly > does one tell the system to do this? On more recent VMS versions (7.3-x?) there's SYS$SYSTEM:SCACP.EXE where you can put priorities on SCA LAN devices. An older approach is SYS$EXAMPLES:LAVC$STOP_BUS.EXE (and LAVC$START_BUS.EXE) (including source code) which you can use to completely shut off SCA traffic off a LAN interface. cu, Martin -- One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:55:35 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Storageworks SAN Switches: possible to reset password ? Message-ID: <1187214935.410538.259070@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 11:55 am, Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> wrote: > There's a 'reset to default' option in the menu that > you can reach from the front panel switches. > Let me know if that works. I have 16-port DS-DSGGB-AB that I can't get past the password for love nor money. I tried the "reset to default" a number of times to no effect. I even went as far as to disassemble it and remove the battery from the mainboard for a week and still I can't get past the password prompt. I've tried every password I've found in the Compaq and Brocade documentation also. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:14:58 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Storageworks SAN Switches: possible to reset password ? Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:55:35 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: > On Aug 15, 11:55 am, Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> > wrote: >> There's a 'reset to default' option in the menu that >> you can reach from the front panel switches. >> > > Let me know if that works. I have 16-port DS-DSGGB-AB that I can't > get past the password for love nor money. I tried the "reset to > default" a number of times to no effect. I even went as far as to > disassemble it and remove the battery from the mainboard for a week > and still I can't get past the password prompt. I've tried every > password I've found in the Compaq and Brocade documentation also. Try ADMIN as user no password, worked on mine > > John H. Reinhardt > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:53:37 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <001201c7dfc1$690388f0$3b0a9ad0$@com> If you get the chance, check out PSI running Windows 2008 on Itanium. The beginning of AppStacking under Windows for sure. Sweet - add and take away processes dynamically. And Windows understands it happening. :) -Paul > Huh? Who said anything about "flocking to OpenVMS?" > > However, since you brought it up, the number one server consolidation > target by > far in almost every med to large company to today is Windows. > Unfortunately, > because of the one app, one server culture and platform technology > challenges, > it is not considered viable to consolidate with App stacking on > Windows, so prod's > like VMware are going through the roof. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:07:00 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert schrieb: > A box is a box! (Unless it's a Commodore). Well, most of my Amigas are box-shaped. > I was speaking of the > "system"; e.g. box + O/S. And ? Your point ? Those RISC boxes + Unix OS were more than capable to replace VAX+VMS and to get typical workstation jobs done. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:11:39 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: Paul Raulerson schrieb: > Well-- the original POWER specification was done by IBM, Motorola, and > Apple. More nitpicking: The original multichip POWER was done by IBM alone, the single chip PowerPC by those three companies. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:17:14 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: Paul Raulerson schrieb: > The 68K was distinctly PDP-11 oriented, that's certainly true, > and yes, a lot of that orientation > can across in the Power design. but here I have to differ again. The original POWER was designed by IBM alone, long before their Apple/Motorola relationship, so they had little incentive to "borrow" from 68K. The PowerPC co-developed with Motorola is an evolution of the original POWER, not 68k. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:01:57 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <001701c7dfc2$958d3fa0$c0a7bee0$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Kraemer [mailto:M.Kraemer@gsi.de] > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:17 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal > champion > > Paul Raulerson schrieb: > > > The 68K was distinctly PDP-11 oriented, > > that's certainly true, > > > and yes, a lot of that orientation > > can across in the Power design. > > but here I have to differ again. > The original POWER was designed by IBM alone, > long before their Apple/Motorola relationship, > so they had little incentive to "borrow" from 68K. > The PowerPC co-developed with Motorola is an evolution > of the original POWER, not 68k. Yes, but the 68K was considered an very good processor by many at IBM at the time, and it really did influence the POWER design. I like that because the 68K was for a very long time, my most favorite of all micro- processors. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:41:13 -0400 From: "Brian Tillman" Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: "Bob Koehler" wrote in message news:TR9TQdY6plZb@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article <_aZui.27225$RX.17930@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>, "Brian > Tillman" writes: >> >> DECwindows 101. > > Odd, then, that you get the error you posted. I haven't seen > that on properly configured systems. > > Is it possible that something is blocking X11 on port 600? > > Do you get the second bash window that normally is auto-started > by the cygwin startx script? I have no idea what "bash" is. I don't know what "cygwin startx" is. -- Brian Tillman ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.447 ************************