INFO-VAX Thu, 11 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 556 Contents: Actual VMS Technical Qeustion! DECnet Phase IV partly missing objects as functio Re: Actual VMS Technical Qeustion! DECnet Phase IV partly missing objects as fun Re: Alphaserver 4100 B3030-EA (256 Mbyte boards) available in the UK UKUK COV activity WAS Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: COV activity WAS Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: COV activity WAS Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: COV activity WAS Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: DFU on the freeware disks DS10 Upgrade options Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Many bookmarks files in my sys$login ? Re: Many bookmarks files in my sys$login ? OT: the real truth about global warming! Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: the real truth about global warming! Re: We'll always have Munich (was: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:17:40 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Actual VMS Technical Qeustion! DECnet Phase IV partly missing objects as functio Message-ID: <1192108660.500832.45450@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Why on one machine I can't LIST FAL, and on another I can't LIST TASK? And why all the extra blank lines? I guess it has something to do with the different User Id's, but why should that cause LIST to not list? Thanks! NCP>SHOW OBJ FAL Object Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 13:12:34 Object Number File/PID User Id Password FAL 17 FAL.EXE FAL$SERVER NCP>SHOW OBJ TASK Object Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 13:12:37 Object Number File/PID User Id Password TASK 0 NCP>LIST OBJ FAL Object Permanent Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 13:12:39 Object = FAL Number = 17 User id = FAL$SERVER Password = no access rights NCP>LIST OBJ TASK Object Permanent Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 13:12:41 %NCP-W-UNRCMP, Unrecognized component , Object NCP> On the other machine: NCP>SHOW OBJ FAL Object Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 15:13:01 Object Number File/PID User Id Password FAL 17 FAL.EXE NCP>SHOW OBJ TASK Object Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 15:13:07 Object Number File/PID User Id Password TASK 0 ILLEGAL NCP>LIST OBJ FAL Object Permanent Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 15:13:09 %NCP-W-UNRCMP, Unrecognized component , Object NCP>LIST OBJ TASK Object Permanent Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 15:13:11 Object = TASK Number = 0 User id = ILLEGAL Password = no access rights NCP> AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:53:17 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Actual VMS Technical Qeustion! DECnet Phase IV partly missing objects as fun Message-ID: <1192110797.453766.5390@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Oct 11, 9:17 am, AEF wrote: > Why on one machine I can't LIST FAL, and on another I can't LIST TASK? > And why all the extra blank lines? I guess it has something to do with > the different User Id's, but why should that cause LIST to not list? > Thanks! > > NCP>SHOW OBJ FAL > > Object Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 13:12:34 > > Object Number File/PID User Id > Password > > FAL 17 FAL.EXE FAL$SERVER > NCP>SHOW OBJ TASK > > Object Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 13:12:37 > > Object Number File/PID User Id > Password > > TASK 0 > NCP>LIST OBJ FAL > > Object Permanent Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 13:12:39 > > Object = FAL > > Number = 17 > User id = FAL$SERVER > Password = no access rights > > NCP>LIST OBJ TASK > > Object Permanent Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 13:12:41 > > %NCP-W-UNRCMP, Unrecognized component , Object > > NCP> > > On the other machine: > NCP>SHOW OBJ FAL > > Object Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 15:13:01 > > Object Number File/PID User Id > Password > > FAL 17 FAL.EXE > NCP>SHOW OBJ TASK > > Object Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 15:13:07 > > Object Number File/PID User Id > Password > > TASK 0 ILLEGAL > NCP>LIST OBJ FAL > > Object Permanent Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 15:13:09 > > %NCP-W-UNRCMP, Unrecognized component , Object > > NCP>LIST OBJ TASK > > Object Permanent Summary as of 11-OCT-2007 15:13:11 > > Object = TASK > > Number = 0 > User id = ILLEGAL > Password = no access rights > > NCP> > > AEF AEF, Do you have a record of the configuration of the nodes? Offhand, my suspicion would be that they were either: - not selected when the initial configuration was done; or - manually deleted at some point - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:59:56 +0100 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: Alphaserver 4100 B3030-EA (256 Mbyte boards) available in the UK UKUK Message-ID: R.A.Omond wrote: > Gentle colleagues, > > I'm about to rescue 6 x B3030-EA 256 Mbyte memory boards > for Alphaserver 4100 from one of my clients tomorrow. These have now been claimed, and have now been sent to a certain place near the Mech Eng Dept of Bristol University :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:26:24 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: COV activity WAS Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:21:42 -0700, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > No, it means that when the powers that be realize that 99.44% of the > traffic on c.o.v is off topic, they will shut the group down. Just who are the powers? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 2007 13:31:46 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: COV activity WAS Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: <5n6mu2Fg6vsqU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:21:42 -0700, Richard B. Gilbert > wrote: > >> No, it means that when the powers that be realize that 99.44% of the >> traffic on c.o.v is off topic, they will shut the group down. > > Just who are the powers? A self designated cabal who somehow assumed control over USENET. At least, they think so. Any News Admin worth his salt would know to ignore them. But then, USENET (like Email) ain't what it used to be!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:23:26 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: COV activity WAS Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: <470E4DFE.3080907@comcast.net> Tom Linden wrote: > On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:21:42 -0700, Richard B. Gilbert > wrote: > >> No, it means that when the powers that be realize that 99.44% of the >> traffic on c.o.v is off topic, they will shut the group down. > > > Just who are the powers? > No idea! I'm assuming that somebody is in charge and that there is some system to it all. A newsgroup doesn't just happen! Anybody with the necessary hardware, software, and net access can create a mailing list; e.g. info-vax. A newsgroup is a little more complicated as the cooperation of others is required. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 2007 17:06:01 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: COV activity WAS Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: <5n73fpFgiaooU1@mid.individual.net> In article <470E4DFE.3080907@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Tom Linden wrote: >> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:21:42 -0700, Richard B. Gilbert >> wrote: >> >>> No, it means that when the powers that be realize that 99.44% of the >>> traffic on c.o.v is off topic, they will shut the group down. >> >> >> Just who are the powers? >> > > No idea! I'm assuming that somebody is in charge and that there is some > system to it all. A newsgroup doesn't just happen! Anybody with the > necessary hardware, software, and net access can create a mailing list; > e.g. info-vax. A newsgroup is a little more complicated as the > cooperation of others is required. The cooperation of peers, not self-elected officials. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:25:16 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: DFU on the freeware disks Message-ID: <470e08a1$0$228$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> As Ian said, I'm maintaining DFU and LDdriver in my spare time which is currently very limited. I'm not making any money out of it right now. I hope to start working on these packages again in the near future and will seriously look at suggestions. Jur. IanMiller wrote, On 10-10-2007 17:42: > As Jur is doing this in his spare time and no one is paying him to do > this then I expect he will concentrate on new things. > > If you pay him to make a new VAX version that would be different. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:15:55 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: DS10 Upgrade options Message-ID: <13gsfh66rv77700@news.supernews.com> If you want to boost your speed on a DS10 466 and are running VMS 7.3-1 or higher then consider this DS10 Performance Upgrade: DS10 617Mhz motherboard 2GB Compaq Memory U160 Dual Channel Compaq SCSI Controller U160 Cable Kit with Terminator $1795 while stocks last This would take about 45 minutes to upgrade your existing 466Mhz DS10 if you have some experience with the internals of the DS10 Motherboard is already set up for VMS and has the current firmware loaded Subject to stock availability -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 T: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 001 912 447 6622 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:58:11 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Message-ID: <7lnPi.802$8C7.543@newsfe12.lga> In article <6Dlm$je7mRIt@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > >In article <86ROi.416$ul3.5@newsfe12.lga>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> >> I would be terrified/horrified to type on any publicly accessible computer, >> especially those running Micro$haft Weendoze as I have seen in the internet >> cafes in Europe. Even if your username/password was only to access Google >> to post to comp.os.vms. How many people do you think now know your Google >> Groups access info? > > And if HP did gove her a laptop, what makes you think it would be any > more secure than any other copy of Windows? I don't! Weendoze Security is the ultimate oxymoron. However, in this case, it is like being involved in a vehicular collision -- would you prefer to be driving a moped or a Ford Pinto when you're rear-ended by a SUV driver racing to cheat a traffic signal? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:48:45 -0000 From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Message-ID: <1192096125.461631.90340@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> perhaps he mean this https://glassfish.dev.java.net// or perhaps its just a rant devoid of useful content? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:06:51 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Glass Fish on OpenVMS? Shafting Loyal Customers (again) Message-ID: Hi Bob, > Glash Fish? Is that the name of the little fellows who survived the > explosion? Take a look at: https://glassfish.dev.java.net// And: http://java.sun.com/javaee/community/glassfish/ After having read those couple of pages you'd now know more than anyone on the IMM team and are fully equiped to flit round the world lecturing to customers who don't have the where-with-all to make their own strategic decisions on IT infrastructure. (Make sure you send the bill for these junkets to the VMS license-payer.) It's all about "churn" Bob; none of us at IMM particularly gives a toss what the technology de jour is, just as long as it's different from the last crap we were peddling, and we get to charge a shit-load of consultancy fees as we "transition" your corporate direction. We're all a bit disappointed with the Waste of Substantial Investment in Technology being poorly received and not having many legs at all, so we had to hit Plan B (gSOAP) early :-( But imagine our delight when Glass Fish started coming on line and was linked into Apache and all sorts of buzz words like synergy! Oh yes, this is pay dirt Bob! None of us has got the faintest fucking idea what it's all about but it looks good on the timesheet and the project budget cheques are being signed as we speak - Happy days Bob! It's not Rally, DECAdmire, ONC/RPC, DEC/RPC, Forte, ACMSxp, COM, BridgeDoesn't, WSIT, SOAP, or gSOAP; it's Glass Fish Bob! (Not that the other products were "wrong" per se, they were "right" for their time and we at IMM like to look back at them fondly as "growing experiences" and bloody great money-spinners quite frankly! There's a thought; imagine if there are any poor bastards out there that have implemented *every* hair-brained idea that we've come up with over the years? Nah, no ones's that gullible.) It's all blue-sky thinking here at IMM Bob, you're gonna love it! Everyday we start with a blank canvass and there are no annoying "legacy" customers to worry about and the money (like the jobs for the boys) never ends! Anyway, at least two more projects in the pipeline Bob (in case glass fish starts salmoning or goes tits-up) more later. . . Cheers Richard Maher "Bob Koehler" wrote in message news:PIRx61jxdR6y@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > Hi, > > > > How many people would be interested in running Glass Fish on OpenVMS, Alpha > > or Integrity? > > Of those, how many would want to: > > Glash Fish? Is that the name of the little fellows who survived the > explosion? > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:47:30 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Many bookmarks files in my sys$login ? Message-ID: <3161b$470dc704$cef8887a$32306@TEKSAVVY.COM> $delete sys%login:bookmarks-*.html; > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, USRDIR:[JFMEZEI]bookmarks-97.html;1 deleted (168 blocks) > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, USRDIR:[JFMEZEI]bookmarks-98.html;1 deleted (168 blocks) > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, USRDIR:[JFMEZEI]bookmarks-99.html;1 deleted (168 blocks) > %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 597 files deleted (100278 blocks) (the last file was really bookmarks-597.html;1 and deleted earlier) Mozilla "Secure Web Browser V1.7-13 is based on Mozilla 1.7.13" Any idea what caused Mozilla to suddently try to create metric tonnes of those bookmark files over the last couple of days ? (I apologise to those who feel that VMS should no longer be used as a desktop OS). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:09:12 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Many bookmarks files in my sys$login ? Message-ID: <07101102091260_202002A8@antinode.org> From: JF Mezei > $delete sys%login:bookmarks-*.html; > > > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, USRDIR:[JFMEZEI]bookmarks-97.html;1 deleted (168 blocks) > > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, USRDIR:[JFMEZEI]bookmarks-98.html;1 deleted (168 blocks) > > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, USRDIR:[JFMEZEI]bookmarks-99.html;1 deleted (168 blocks) > > %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 597 files deleted (100278 blocks) > > (the last file was really bookmarks-597.html;1 and deleted earlier) > > Mozilla "Secure Web Browser V1.7-13 is based on Mozilla 1.7.13" > > Any idea what caused Mozilla to suddently try to create metric tonnes of > those bookmark files over the last couple of days ? I assume that something other than SWB is making them. (You, for example.) All mine are plain BOOKMARKS.HTML (that's on an ODS2 disk), and they're all in [._MOZILLA.....], not in SYS$LOGIN. But perhaps it went berserk. Time to engage the audit alarms? Accurate blame assignment is always a good first step. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:05:57 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: OT: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: <1192122357.452130.201510@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Oct 10, 6:39 pm, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Oct 10, 3:41 pm, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > > > > > In article <1192024704.537948.186...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > > On Oct 10, 9:40 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > > >> In article <1192022316.455768.317...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > >> >http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/articledetail.asp?Article_ID=202 > > > >> Please carry on such discussions in an _appropriate_ newsgroup. > > > > such as? > > > > a little variety is good for a news group! > > > Going off-topic is _NOT_ good for a news group. The whole reason > > for having umpty-hundred newsgroups is so that individual READERS > > can choose the topics they want to read about. > > > Just as I do not impose my other interests on readers of this newsgroup > > you should not either. > > how am I imposing my beliefs on you? > > You know you do not have to read the post > or article ... or is someone standing over you > with garden hose dripping water on you if > you do not read my post or any post? Would you at least be considerate enough to start the subject lines of your proselytizing posts with "OT:" ?? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:14:03 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article <7PwPJxjt71Rl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > In article , > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > > Michael Moroney wrote: > >> JF Mezei writes: > >> > >>> Investigating while I wasn't getting emails from a specific store, I > >>> first found that my TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG log files were at version > >>> 32767 ... :-( so no new logfiles were being created (but I am still > >>> receiving new mail though , interesting development !) > >> > >> $! REVERSION.COM - Renames the versions of a file to be sequential > >> starting > >> $! at version ;1. Useful to prevent frequently created log files, etc. > >> from > >> $! reaching version ;32767, at which point no more versions can be > >> created. > >> $! To use: $ PURGE/KEEP=n file.ext (suggested), then $ @REVERSION file.ext > >> $! After this, the versions of the file are numbered ;1, ;2, ... ;n. > >> $! Author: Michael Moroney Aug. 2007 > >> $!------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> - > >> $ if p1.eqs."" then goto usage ! No null > >> filenames > >> $ if f$locate(";",p1) .ne. f$length(p1) then goto usage ! No versions > >> $ file = p1 + ";" ! Base filename > >> $ f1 = f$search(file) > >> $ if f1 .eqs. "" then goto fnf ! Quit if > >> nonexistent > >> $ f2 = f$search(file + "-0") > >> $ v1 = f$integer(f$parse(f1,,,"version")-";") ! v1 = highest > >> version > >> $ v2 = f$integer(f$parse(f2,,,"version")-";") ! v2 = lowest > >> version > >> $ k = v1-v2+1 ! Max. # of files > >> $ i = 1 ! i=new version > >> $ j = v2 ! j=old version > >> $loop: > >> $ g1 = f$search(file+f$string(j)) > >> $ if g1 .eqs. "" then goto skip1 ! ignore any gaps > >> $ if i .eq. j then goto skip2 ! skip no-op > >> rename > >> $ g2 = ";" + f$string(i) > >> $ rename/nolog 'g1 'g2 ! rename one file > >> $skip2: > >> $ i = i+1 ! increment new > >> vers. > >> $skip1: > >> $ j = j+1 ! increment old > >> vers. > >> $ k = k-1 > >> $ if k .gt. 0 then goto loop ! loop til done > >> $ exit > >> $usage: > >> $ write sys$output "@REVERSION filename.ext (no versions or wildcards)" > >> $ exit %x28 > >> $fnf: > >> $ exit %x18292 > > > > I do (for a file named FILE.LOG) : > > > > $ rename FILE.LOG.* FILE.TMP.0 > > $ rename FILE.TMP.* FILE.LOG.0 > > > > The result is FILE.LOG's starting on ;1. > > The app that create FILE.LOG should probably > > be stalled/blocked during the rename's. > > > > Now, it's not clear top me what the DCL script > > above does that my two commands doesn't. I'm sure > > I must be missing something... > > I see two significant differences. Three if you want to quibble about > performance of a two pass rename in the context of a very large directory. > > 1. What happens if you don't block the app creating FILE.LOG? > 2. What happens if your renames get interrupted partway through? > > > As I read the script logic, it starts from the oldest version and > works its way up. It restricts itself to acting on a total number > of files estimated by looking at the newest version minus the oldest > version plus one. > > If new versions are created while the script is doing its work, > these versions will typically not be touched. If the estimate > is out of whack (i.e. if gaps in the version sequence exist), > the newer versions may be touched, but they will still wind up > in chronological order. > > If the script is interrupted you'll still wind up with the versions > in chronological order, albeit with a gap in the version number sequence. > This situation will be automatically corrected the next time the script > is run. As an added bonus, if there is a gap in the version number > sequence (as would happen if log files are created during execution) > then the next time the script is run it will tend to over-estimate > the number of files to be renamed and will tend to process files > created during that run. > > Intentional or not, this is a rather nifty feature -- if log files are > rarely created on the fly, log files that are created during a > run will normally be left alone. But if log files are often created > on the fly, log files that are created during a run will normally > be processed. A self-tuning application. > > > As I trace the two-command approach, the first rename starts from > the newest version and works its way down. Any files created > during this rename are going to be interleaved with the other renamed > files. Chronological order may be destroyed during the first rename. > > The second rename starts from the newest renamed version (typically > the oldest original version) and works its way down. Any files created > during this rename are going to be interleaved with the other renamed > files. Chronological order may be destroyed during the second rename. > > If either rename is interrupted, you end up with temporary files laying > around. If you try to repair this situation, you'll probably do more > damage to the chronological version number order. I have my own procedure here, which is meant to address the problem of new jobs running while the procedure is running. Here is the overview from the comments I have in it: ---- $! Note could be dealing with data files, so for safety this procedure $! has to be restartable without losing any files on the way. $! $! 1. Rename the lowest version of the file to filename.type_rvsn;0 $! 2. Repeat until the latest version of the file is reached. Leave $! this with its original name and version so that new versions $! created by other processes continue in the original sequence. $! 3. Rename the *.*_rvsn files back to the original name in $! ascending order. Normally the first one will be version 1, $! but in the case of a restart, it may be higher. $! 4. Rename the version which was highest at the beginning of the $! procedure $! 5. Search for versions created since the procedure began and $! rename those until no more are found. $! $! See if we need to restart after a failed run $! $ if f$search(file + "_rvsn") .nes. "" then goto phase_2 ---- Do you see anything missing in the above logic? -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:39:31 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article <$eDBd3RhL0uI@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >In article , Rich Alderson writes: >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> >>> In article , Rich Alderson >>> writes: >> >>>> That's in reference to VMS implementations of TCP/IP, right? >> >>> It's a pretty well broken protocol anyhow. Any network protocol >>> that allows outsideers to make a connection without some action >>> by the local admin to provide access credentials always will be. >> >> Um, you say broken, I say design feature? Security does not belong at that low >> a level. Or are you telling me that DECNET does things that way? > >Certainly DECnet does not allow an unprivileged user to accept >unauthenticated connections. As far as I am aware that isn't true. MAIL, FAL and other DECNET objects don't do any checking back to authenticate the user connecting. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >That is a security feature. The >question of whether the designers realized the importance of >that at the time can be argued, but certainly the designers of >TCP/IP made a bad security decision. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 2007 07:43:04 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > > As far as I am aware that isn't true. MAIL, FAL and other DECNET objects don't > do any checking back to authenticate the user connecting. > MAIL runs in most systems only because the admin has provided it with authentication. FAL in the early days was also provided with such on a lot of systems. Any DECnet object can have that if the admin provides it, and many which used to no longer do. (You can't use FAL or PHONE on any of my systems without providing the credentials, but you can use MAIL because I let the DECnet setup provide credentials). The local admin is in control of all of this. And it's not the DECnet object that's doing the checking. It's in a DECnet layer before the object is started. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:34:18 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >> >> As far as I am aware that isn't true. MAIL, FAL and other DECNET objects don't >> do any checking back to authenticate the user connecting. >> > > MAIL runs in most systems only because the admin has provided it with > authentication. FAL in the early days was also provided with such on > a lot of systems. > Assuming it has been setup during the DECNET configuration MAIL accepts the connection from anywhere. It runs in the account associated with the MAIL object - by default the MAIL$SERVER account ie you have a listening daemon running under a particular account. (You can if you wish have the login.com of that account do additional checks against the node and user connecting - but, unless you setup your own connection from the login.com to the sending system and perform some check which you have configured specifically with that system, then that is just relying on what is contained in the packets coming in. NO CHECK is made back with the system sending the mail by DECNET other than the trivial check that two way communication appears to be working. This is NO DIFFERENT than with SMTP MAIL over TCPIP.) As far as I am aware the only authentication ever done with DECNET objects is to require the incoming connection to supply the target username and password or appropriate proxy information. This is no different from applications under TCPIP. > Any DECnet object can have that if the admin provides it, and many > which used to no longer do. (You can't use FAL or PHONE on any of my > systems without providing the credentials, but you can use MAIL > because I let the DECnet setup provide credentials). The local admin > is in control of all of this. > > And it's not the DECnet object that's doing the checking. It's in a > DECnet layer before the object is started. > It is irrelevent whether it is the DECNET Object or some lower layer - something has to be listening in order to accept the credentials and check them against those specified for the target. But the point is that this information is just what is in the packets - there is no check made back to authenticate the connecting user. Hence this is no different from the security in TCPIP. In fact it is worse since at least with TCPIP you can now use encrypted protocols. As far as I am aware DECNET is still operating in the clear hence the recommendation to use proxies rather than having access control strings with passwords travelling over the network. However as I recall it is also recommended that you only grant proxy access to users on nodes which are almost always on since it is easier for an attacker to impersonate a node when it is off the network. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:39:38 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >One difference in DECnet verification for something like email, is the >receiver uses its local database to determine the name of the sending >system, unlike smtp which believes the sender. DECNET-Plus can use DecDNs or DNS/BIND rather than a local namespace With DNS/BIND setup then you can get decnet mail from addresses such as IP$10.13.83.21::SYSTEM if the system isn't registered in the DNS or from a system which is in the DNS CPCN-HATFM-0-0-CUSTXYZ.LUTN.CABLE.NTL.COM::SYSTEM (Name just slightly obscured) >For example, by mumbling >the correct incantation to object 27 on NODE2:: from a system that NODE2:: >knows as NODE1::, I can fake email from NODE1::SYSTEM or NODE1::BIG_BIG_BOSS >but not NODE3::SOMEBODY. (I can fake a proxy to have email show up as >NODE1::NODE3::SOMEBODY however). On the other hand, tell smtp that your >email is from president@whitehouse.gov and it believes you. You have to >look through the Received: lines (which also can be forged) to figure out >where it really came from. > With SMTP your local machine should have added in the latest received line and hence you should be able to trust that to tell you where the message really came from. (This information should also be found in the logs produced by your mail system). It's the other received-lines which were inserted by the other systems the mail went through before it was passed to your system which can be forged. >Of course, if NODE3:: happens to be down, I can bring up a system using >NODE3::'s DECnet address and send plenty of email from NODE3::SOMEBODY. >I don't even have to change what that system calls itself. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:05:21 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: In article <1ac0f$470d3540$cef8887a$19979@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >{...snip...} >Heck, we know that one poster has socks that are older than Guy Peleg >and even know what Mr Vaxman has in his underwear and that Mrs VAXman >loves every inch of it :-) :-) ;-) More than we need to know about >posters :-) You seem to be rather amused with that comment! I made to be as absurd as all of the silly religious-based drivel that has been pilling up here in comp.os.vms filling it with a fetid smell akin to the streets of NYC on a hot summer day before the sanitation department has carted away the curbside detritus. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:24:21 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: In article <470D6C96.8020300@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >> On Oct 10, 5:22 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" >> wrote: >> >>>JF Mezei wrote: >>> >>>>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>> >>>- Show quoted text - >> >> >> so that means having side dicussions about other topics >> will keep this forum from being turned off ... :) >> > >No, it means that when the powers that be realize that 99.44% of the >traffic on c.o.v is off topic, they will shut the group down. > What powers ? comp.os.vms is a heavily used news group. Much of the vmsnet heirarchy is pretty much moribund with almost no posts except for real spam. But that heirarchy still exists. And no by spam I don't mean off-topic but interesting posts such as are on comp.os.vms I mean real spam like " Subject: O.R.I.G.I.N.A.L...C.U.B.A.N...CIGARS....DELIVERY--TO---USA--- " or binary warez posts. Personally I think the relatively few off-topic posts probably keep more people looking at comp.os.vms and therefore available to answer on-topic questions than cause people to stop looking at comp.os.vms. I don't know where you get that 99.44% figure - I still seem to see lots of on-topic threads. Not very scientific but a quick look on google shows that of threads 1-30 only about 5 which are off-topic Glass Fish on OpenVMS? - I'm not sure what this is really about. the real truth about global warming! Why global Climate Change might not be anthropogenic Still not convinced global warming is a hoax. OT: Powerpoint and Microsoft security and of threads 31-60 there is one off-topic posting OT: www.northernlight.com - hiring now and about 3 spam posts. and of threads 61-90 a couple of spam postings and one off-topic posting hacking,anti-hacking,registry tweaks David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:45:58 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > Glass Fish on OpenVMS? - I'm not sure what this is really about. https://glassfish.dev.java.net// And it was mentioned on the "VMS Tech Update" days last week. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 2007 07:44:53 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: In article <1ac0f$470d3540$cef8887a$19979@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > > It could be argued that your frequent mention of evil javasccript is not > part of the comp.os.vms list of accepted topics. (even though I agree > with you on this). > > And discussing Sue's use of strange British wintel keyboards at an > airport would also not be a valid technical topic for this VMS > newsgroup. (are keyboards in australia upside down in a ytrewq layout ? :-) Security in general, Larry, and Sue, are all appropriate topics for a VMS dicsussion. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:47:41 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >> Glass Fish on OpenVMS? - I'm not sure what this is really about. > >https://glassfish.dev.java.net// > >And it was mentioned on the "VMS Tech Update" days last week. OK. So in that case it looks like that thread was not off-topic after all. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:03:44 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: the real truth about global warming! Message-ID: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >>> Glass Fish on OpenVMS? - I'm not sure what this is really about. >> https://glassfish.dev.java.net// >> >> And it was mentioned on the "VMS Tech Update" days last week. > > OK. So in that case it looks like that thread was not off-topic after all. > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > Right. Besides that many here whould like it to be... :-) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:58:03 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: We'll always have Munich (was: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days) Message-ID: Hi Graham, > Not sure what's going on there (yet), but it's no doubt our fault. Normal > service has apparently resumed afer following httpd/do=restart. Another resource leak from a C program, how quaint :-) Good to see that Windows solutions can equally be applied to VMS problems (Ok that's enough stones, I think I'll move outside this glass-house for a while :-) Cheers Richard Maher "Graham Burley" wrote in message news:P7lRCW7HQFJC@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > >> ERROR 500 - The server has encountered an unexpected condition. > > > > Even if I knew where the WASD logs were and even if they recorded an error > > message I still wouldn't have privilege to see them on Deathrow. > > > > %HTTPD-I-BEGIN, 04-OCT-2007 07:35:12, accepting requests > %HTTPD-W-NOTICED, 10-OCT-2007 14:00:18, NET:1004, NetAcceptSupervisor() > %X000001B4 > -SYSTEM-F-NOIOCHAN, no I/O channel available > %HTTPD-W-NOTICED, 10-OCT-2007 14:00:24, NET:1035, NetAcceptSupervisor() > SS$_NOIOCHAN %X00000001 > > etc > > Not sure what's going on there (yet), but it's no doubt our fault. Normal > service has apparently resumed afer following httpd/do=restart. > ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.556 ************************