INFO-VAX Wed, 21 Nov 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 637 Contents: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Re: Alpha newbie: ANALYZE/ERROR equivalent ? Re: four VT100 terminals free Re: Getting Fortran to read CTRL/Z in a file as data RE: HP loses another large customer RE: HP loses another large customer RE: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster SFTP client compatibility Re: SFTP client compatibility Re: SFTP client compatibility Very Cool on the VMS site Re: [OT] Out of consulting business? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:39:07 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Message-ID: In article <492ce242-0e18-451b-be50-898353e7ba44@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: {...snip...} >The newer units I have all sound an alarm if power gets too flaky >(technical term;-) but will self-reset when the power stabilizes. If >the battery flat-lines and the power comes back on then the UPS will >resume its work and the battery will begin recharging. Most units come >with Power-Chute software for PeeCee's. VAXman's VMS product was >mentioned in another post. If the system has shut-down, then what it >does when the power comes back is dependent on other factors. If you or anybody else here is interested, send me a private email and I can direct you to the documentation for my UPS product (UPShot). It is a 150 page manual and it explains how to configure the "what it does when the power comes back" features for APC's UPSs using UPShot. >The older (or really cheap) UPS's didn't (don't) always come back >automatically. I have an old Tripp-Lite 450 that wanted attention all >of the time (the new Tripp-Lite's are worth looking at, though.) Its >battery just died again this year and I don't know if I'll replace it >or not. It was finally just handling my cell-phone chargers and >cordless phone & answering machine, anyway, and I gave that job to a >little old APC unit that has a fairly new battery. Unless you have invested a significant amount of money in your UPS, it is probably cheaper to buy a new unit. You will likely get better bat- tery technology and more features from the newer unit for little more than the price of the replacement batteries. Some brands even have a trade-in and trade-up program. A great way to dispose of the old unit and get yourself a new one. You usually have to go through the manu- facturer for these -- not the local Comp-USA or Best-Buys, etc. As for Tripp-Lite... I picked one up at COSTCO. A small unit just to backup the phones in the house (I remember a time when the phone would still work when the lights when out!). The Tripp-Lite's lifespan was VERY short lived. I don't know what happened to it but that dissuaded me from making a future purchases of the same brand. YMMV. >Exposing electronic equipment to power glitches, frequent on/off - >heating/cooling cycles or a bad environment (like too high or low >humidity and/or temperature) can create many insidious problems. >Components can degrade from optimal to marginal and until they fail, >they can present intermittent symptoms that are hard to diagnose. A >power supply can just naturally lose efficiency over time, too. Where I reside, I am subject to frequent power outages -- most short in duration but frequent. Also, and this is most prevalent during the hot summer days, severe dips from the nominal power. I've seen my voltage as low as 95Vac (from normal 117-120Vac). Long term, this can be det- rimental to equipment. The HVAC guy told me it was probably the cause of my central air compressor motor giving up its ghost. I'm not going to risk the old VAX and Alpha power supplies to the same fate. I have lost a few power supplied in the past and, assuming you can even locate a replacement, the price is often times prohibitive. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:13:15 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Message-ID: <5eb525cd-88d7-4ed3-af8f-3f239363ae02@w28g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Nov 20, 6:39 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <492ce242-0e18-451b-be50-898353e7b...@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > {...snip...} > > >The newer units I have all sound an alarm if power gets too flaky > >(technical term;-) but will self-reset when the power stabilizes. If > >the battery flat-lines and the power comes back on then the UPS will > >resume its work and the battery will begin recharging. Most units come > >with Power-Chute software for PeeCee's. VAXman's VMS product was > >mentioned in another post. If the system has shut-down, then what it > >does when the power comes back is dependent on other factors. > > If you or anybody else here is interested, send me a private email and > I can direct you to the documentation for my UPS product (UPShot). It > is a 150 page manual and it explains how to configure the "what it does > when the power comes back" features for APC's UPSs using UPShot. > For my personal VMS use, I only have a couple of old mv3100's running in the basement; they are on UPS' but they aren't actively doing anything except spinning my meter and giving me a place to play. I've looked at your UPShot before and liked what I saw. > >The older (or really cheap) UPS's didn't (don't) always come back > >automatically. I have an old Tripp-Lite 450 that wanted attention all > >of the time (the new Tripp-Lite's are worth looking at, though.) Its > >battery just died again this year and I don't know if I'll replace it > >or not. It was finally just handling my cell-phone chargers and > >cordless phone & answering machine, anyway, and I gave that job to a > >little old APC unit that has a fairly new battery. > > Unless you have invested a significant amount of money in your UPS, it > is probably cheaper to buy a new unit. You will likely get better bat- > tery technology and more features from the newer unit for little more > than the price of the replacement batteries. Yep. A battery costs around $30 and a new unit with the same rating only costs about $40. The Tripp-Lite I mentioned is over 10 years old so it's probably going to end up with the recyclers. I did replace its battery once or twice. It was doing heavier work early on and I was quite happy with it (other than it's reset issues) but APC's of similar age and quality aren't exactly brilliant, either. > Some brands even have a > trade-in and trade-up program. A great way to dispose of the old unit > and get yourself a new one. You usually have to go through the manu- > facturer for these -- not the local Comp-USA or Best-Buys, etc. > There's a local green-conscious guy who will pick up any old electronics for salvage and recycling and I'm building another pile for him, so I don't go through the hassle of factory returns. As long as the stuff stays out of the land-fill I'm happy. There's a BatteriesPlus store a couple of miles away where I occasionally shop and they'll take whatever old batteries I have regardless of where I got them. I'd be nice if every place that sold batteries were required to take them back for recycling or proper disposal, but that hasn't happened yet around here. > As for Tripp-Lite... I picked one up at COSTCO. A small unit just to > backup the phones in the house (I remember a time when the phone would > still work when the lights when out!). The Tripp-Lite's lifespan was > VERY short lived. I don't know what happened to it but that dissuaded > me from making a future purchases of the same brand. YMMV. > I have a newer Tripp-Lite (about 3 years old I think) someplace in my jungle that I never hear from, so my experience with T-L hasn't been bad. Maybe yours was a retail model made especially for COSTCO? I still have one phone that will work when the power goes out. Otherwise, the cordless will work as long as the UPS stays up. Having the cell-phone chargers on a UPS has gotten me through all of the outages so far (he unwisely said out loud), and having dropped my home land-line long distance, I use my cell (with a nation-wide calling plan) quite a bit. Haven't dragged myself into the new-gen kids totally wire-less world yet, though. > >Exposing electronic equipment to power glitches, frequent on/off - > >heating/cooling cycles or a bad environment (like too high or low > >humidity and/or temperature) can create many insidious problems. > >Components can degrade from optimal to marginal and until they fail, > >they can present intermittent symptoms that are hard to diagnose. A > >power supply can just naturally lose efficiency over time, too. > > Where I reside, I am subject to frequent power outages -- most short in > duration but frequent. Also, and this is most prevalent during the hot > summer days, severe dips from the nominal power. I've seen my voltage > as low as 95Vac (from normal 117-120Vac). Long term, this can be det- > rimental to equipment. The HVAC guy told me it was probably the cause > of my central air compressor motor giving up its ghost. I'm not going > to risk the old VAX and Alpha power supplies to the same fate. I have > lost a few power supplied in the past and, assuming you can even locate > a replacement, the price is often times prohibitive. > That describes my area, too, so I hear you loud and clear. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 05:38:51 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Alpha newbie: ANALYZE/ERROR equivalent ? Message-ID: IanMiller wrote: > HELP ANAL/ERROR/ELV says > > $ ANALYZE/ERROR_LOG/ELV TRANSLATE ERRLOG.SYS;42 Thanks. The help wasn't too clear on that. "VIEW" would have been more obvious. I was somewhat confused about the ability to convert/translate to some older format for ERF stuff. Is there a reason why /ELV was NOT made the default on Alpha ? (since ERF seems to have no useful purpose anymore). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:13:01 -0600 From: "Lee K. Gleason" Subject: Re: four VT100 terminals free Message-ID: wrote in message news:18d41cc1-f68d-49be-9d7b-f835e826316e@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On Nov 19, 6:22 pm, "Lee K. Gleason" wrote: > > I'm narrowing the scope of my collection (translation - no room for > > everything anymore). I have four VT100s, in pretty good shape, and a few > Lee, > My wife would like for me to do the same. I have several boxes of > RLO2 platters that I need to convert to images so I can play with them > on SIMH or something like that before giving away my herd of 11's. I > was wondering if you had a rig that would read and RL02 and could turn > it into an image? Ah, sorry, nope, don't have any RL02 drives. > Also, I live up the road in Spring. If you can help me I can give you > all my 11 stuff in trade, Heck, I'm trying to get some space back....talk like that is like offering a recovering alcoholinc a drink! >or sell it on e-bay and give you the > proceedes or better yet my wife make the best pie crust anybod has > ever tasted. Hopefully we can work something out. Maybe we could > start a Houston DEC users group. If there is one already in town I > would love to know about it. Haven't run into that many collectors here in old Houston town. If I meet anyone with functioning RL02's I'll let you know. -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR lee.gleason@comcast.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:35:22 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Lionel Subject: Re: Getting Fortran to read CTRL/Z in a file as data Message-ID: <9e8dbd4a-a10d-47f0-b2db-ef495b2118c6@b15g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Nov 15, 8:50 am, Tom Wade wrote: > I noticed that a Fortran program I wrote is interpreting a CTRL/Z buried > in a file as an end-of-file condition (I knew it took terminal CTRL/Z as > EOF, but I had never realized it did the same for files). Before I > rewrite the Fortran READs as calls to $GET, is there an easier way to > tell Fortran not to regard CTRL/Z as end-of-file ? A one-byte CTRL-Z is how an ENDFILE record is implemented in VMS Fortran. You can, as others have noted, detect the endfile condition and keep reading. (This is a VMS Fortran extension - the Fortran standard does not allow this.) Steve (ex VMS Fortran developer) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:33:25 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu] > Sent: November 20, 2007 8:31 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer > > In article , > Michael Kraemer writes: > > Main, Kerry schrieb: > > > >> Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized, > > > > so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively moving to > > centralized VMS installations these days ? > > I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true. > > > >> much > >> more secure and highly available solutions at much lower > costs (read > >> staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the > >> typical IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging > are those > >> that think distributed systems and the one business > application per > >> OS instance culture associated with some platforms is the > way of the future. > >> > > > > What a silly reply. > > The OPs complain about losing business because HP has > nothing to offer > > in VMS / PL/I space and you come up with the same old drivel about > > centralization which nobody here is interested in, unless > it occurs on > > VMS. > > If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic. > > I often hace to ask myself, after reading some of Kerry's > drivel, if he is the ultimate corporate shill or could he > really have his head so far in the sand that he truly > believes what he writes. > > bill > > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. > Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > So says Bill, the self appointed defender of UNIX as the cure for all the worlds problems, who writes another inspirational note. :-) Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:05:39 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: yyyc186 [mailto:yyyc186@hughes.net] > Sent: November 20, 2007 11:54 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer > > On Nov 20, 1:00 am, Michael Kraemer wrote: > > Main, Kerry schrieb: > > > > > Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized, > > > > so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively moving to > > centralized VMS installations these days ? > > I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true. > > > > > much > > > more secure and highly available solutions at much lower > costs (read > > > staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the > > > typical IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs > emerging are those > > > that think distributed systems and the one business > application per > > > OS instance culture associated with some platforms is the > way of the future. > > > > What a silly reply. > > The OPs complain about losing business because HP has > nothing to offer > > in VMS / PL/I space and you come up with the same old drivel about > > centralization which nobody here is interested in, unless > it occurs on > > VMS. > > If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic. > > He just doesn't word it correctly. He isn't completely > wrong. Server consolidation is an attempt to mash 8 or more > application instances on a single $800 PC now sold as a $5000 > blade. While many companies are siting the reduction in > power costs, the real reason behind it is that they need 3 > people per $800 PC just to keep it running, and it still > needs a 2 hour window each night to apply virus and OS > patches, sometimes in the middle of the day even. (Of course > HP-UX has the industry rep of Hourly Patches, but we won't go > there.) No version of Unix or Windows does multi-tasking > correctly, so they resort to the same pathetic architecture > they've always used...task switching and threads. Each > virtual instance is a task that gets switched between or a > thread which gets switched between, depending upon what cheap > OS is running on the $5000 $800 PC. > > Oh well, I look forward to the day in the not too distant > future where HP's stock is trading below $12.00/share. > Its much worse than simply cramming virtual servers on a physical server. That is step 1 which does reduce some HW, space and DC cooling costs. Step1 does not touch the 60-70% part of the IT budget that is related to IT staffing (admins per OS instance) Step 2 kicks in when the virtualization is done and the CIO says "ok, now how are you going to further reduce the IT budget by 25%?" That is when the real pain of one bus app per OS instance culture kicks in. While there are technical challenges with multiple App sharing on Windows and Linux, the real challenges are cultural - not only with internal groups not wanting to share, but also with ISV support as well. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:25:04 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Kraemer [mailto:M.Kraemer@gsi.de] > Sent: November 20, 2007 2:01 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer > > Main, Kerry schrieb: > > > Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized, > > so you are trying to tell us "everybody" is massively moving > to centralized VMS installations these days ? > I think it is plain to see that the opposite is true. > Nope. Did not say anything about OpenVMS. > > much > > more secure and highly available solutions at much lower > costs (read > > staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the > > typical IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging > are those > > that think distributed systems and the one business > application per OS > > instance culture associated with some platforms is the way > of the future. > > > > What a silly reply. > The OPs complain about losing business because HP has nothing > to offer in VMS / PL/I space and you come up with the same > old drivel about centralization which nobody here is > interested in, unless it occurs on VMS. > If you speak on behalf of HP, it's pathetic. > Since when did anyone here from HP ever say they were speaking on behalf of HP? In case you have forgotten, this is a newsgroup. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:00:12 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: In article <2036a76c-a695-4b63-9fb7-d3a87194d7b9@d50g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, yyyc186 writes: > > What HP hasn't realized is that nearly every customer leaving VMS is > leaving HP completely, not even buying their PC's for desktops or > notebooks or printers. Some are moving to AIX, others are moving to > Ubuntu. By the time HP realizes it, their stock will be trading below > $12.00/share. Looking at HPs recent results one gets the impression they couldn't care less about customers dropping BCSs products first and HP altogether later. Their commodity sections are in good shape and the few disgruntled VMS or HP-UX customers wouldn't change that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:06:07 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: <823e1$47434c41$cef8887a$31012@TEKSAVVY.COM> Main, Kerry wrote: > That is step 1 which does reduce some HW, space and DC cooling costs. OK on the space. But does replacing 5 units of 1U with some Blade box containing 5 computers really reduce cooling costs ? Wouldn't it end up generating pretty much the same amount of heat ? I can understand merging multiple applications on the same instance of an OS. You can really go from 5 CPUs down to 1 and then same a lot on cooling costs. But I am not sure that moving 5 computers into a blade unit with 5 computers really saves much on cooling. Blades probably provie better wintel management as opposed to those kludges called KVM switches. Not sure they provide that much space savings when you compere agaisn 1U computers though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:30:43 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: <39f9c502-5247-4255-8b6e-c5fc5d673f70@b15g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Nov 20, 10:54 am, yyyc186 wrote: > > Oh well, I look forward to the day in the not too distant future where > HP's stock is trading below $12.00/share. Based on their latest earnings report & forecast, that won't likely be anytime soon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:34:08 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: <474360df$0$21929$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Michael Kraemer wrote: > In article > <2036a76c-a695-4b63-9fb7-d3a87194d7b9@d50g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > yyyc186 writes: > >> >> What HP hasn't realized is that nearly every customer leaving VMS is >> leaving HP completely, not even buying their PC's for desktops or >> notebooks or printers. Some are moving to AIX, others are moving to >> Ubuntu. By the time HP realizes it, their stock will be trading >> below $12.00/share. > > Looking at HPs recent results one gets the impression they > couldn't care less about customers dropping BCSs products first > and HP altogether later. Their commodity sections are in good shape > and the few disgruntled VMS or HP-UX customers wouldn't change that. As I (among others) have almost perennially stated. Given declining consumer confidence and all sorts of other problems with the US economy, I wonder whether the "consumer" HP (as opposed to the prevoius incarnations of "engineer" or "business" HP) will weather an economic downturn or simply implode upon itself. Ramen. Dr. Dweeb (a new acolyte) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:40:28 -0700 From: "Michael D. Ober" Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: <13k6vjv81t4nb7b@corp.supernews.com> "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message news:5qg5q4FvmjuaU2@mid.individual.net... > In article <13k4pj1fjm74j7d@corp.supernews.com>, > "Michael D. Ober" writes: >> "Main, Kerry" wrote in message >> news:C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDEBA430780@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net... >> >> That's why virtualization is all the rage now. Neither Linux nor Windows >> was architected to easily configure and support multiple applications on >> the >> server side. > > What? As regards Linux, what part of multi-tasking do you not understand? > It's not a lack of multitasking. Both Windows and Linux multitask reasonably well. The issue is the configuration of a large application and what happens when two or more of these large apps both try to reconfigure the OS for themselves. Both MS and Linux are abject failures when it comes to configuring multiple, large, line of business apps on a single OS instance. > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > ------------------------------ Date: 20 Nov 2007 07:27:15 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Message-ID: In article <13k4282oo2tms2c@corp.supernews.com>, "Syltrem" writes: > Hi ! > > Does anyone know of a TPU section file that would do automatic word wrapping > ? > Does it exist as a freeware or else, or can it be done at all, you think ? > > Currently the wrapping is really simplistic as the cursor must be at the end > of the line for the wrap to occur. > > If that does not exist, is there a way to force a FILL on the entire buffer > upon exit ? > You can write your own exit routine to replace eve$exit_dispatch and make it call all the exit handlers you want. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:59:08 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Message-ID: BTW, to reflow a whole document: goto TOP, SELECT goto BOTTOM issue the FILL command All paragraphs will be refilled. Note that if you have any tabular data, ascii graphs etc, those get refilled too ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:10:39 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: <39A0j.4$bQ2.1@newsfe08.lga> In article , Sue writes: > > >On Nov 19, 7:48 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: >> In article <4740FE8E.A82B8...@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >> >> >Suewrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> The HP group sponsering this is not familiar with the VMS community so >> >> they are a little suprised with the amount of people that are >> >> registered. Then she told me, "well they will drop out any way and >> >> probably will not ask any questions" [snip] >> >> Suggest her that some people may drop out because the instructions >> on how to access her production from a VMS desktop are unclear. > >I will send her a note. Since the huge amount of folks she works with >are PC oriented and have a PC preference that is why the focus. >Please tell me what you would like. I didn't see anything in terms of instructions when I followed the initially posted link -- only a registration page. I assume all but those using that Redmond company's warez have been left out. I registered anyway just to show a VMS interest to the HP folks. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:33:43 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > I assume all but those using that Redmond company's warez have been left > out. I registered anyway just to show a VMS interest to the HP folks. Now, my guess is that 99.9% of those with a serious VMS interest also have access to a regular PC. Of course this is no real problem. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:44:16 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> I assume all but those using that Redmond company's warez have been left >> out. I registered anyway just to show a VMS interest to the HP folks. > >Now, my guess is that 99.9% of those with a serious VMS interest >also have access to a regular PC. Of course this is no real problem. I suppose I could hop in my vehicle and drive 15 miles to the library and use one of the PeeCees there assuming some kid isn't sitting there using it to play 'I Spy'. I wonder if I need a library card too. The prospects of me wasting a gallon or two of gasoline at close to $3/gal. to use a PeeCee and watch some pseudo-marketing presentation are rather slim and leaning toward absolutely improbable. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:46:59 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > I assume all but those using that Redmond company's warez have been left > > out. I registered anyway just to show a VMS interest to the HP folks. > > Now, my guess is that 99.9% of those with a serious VMS interest > also have access to a regular PC. Of course this is no real problem. If all transactions concerning VMS have to go through a PC this is certainly no good advertisement for VMS. It sends a strong message of VMS not being able to stand on its own feet but needing a crutch like a Windoze PC. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:01:57 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: <9VA0j.626$R_4.538@newsb.telia.net> > a gallon or two of gasoline at close to $3/gal. Should be at least $8-$10/gal, I'd say. Gasoline is *way* to cheap in the US. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:12:06 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: In article <5qg5m5FvmjuaU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >In article <9VA0j.626$R_4.538@newsb.telia.net>, > Jan-Erik Söderholm writes: >> > a gallon or two of gasoline at close to $3/gal. >> >> Should be at least $8-$10/gal, I'd say. >> Gasoline is *way* to cheap in the US. > >Gasoline is the same price here as it is over there. You just have more >taxes on it. Our's should not be more expensive, your government should >just get its hand out of your wallet. Of course, so should our's but >at least our's isn't as deep into it in the first place. I agree wholeheartedly Bill. BTW, ours is the possessive pronoun. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:55:11 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: <2dd12b9b-ad40-4bf7-882e-a64e85590e80@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Nov 18, 1:10 am, Sue wrote: > Dear Newsgroup, > > There will be an OpenVMS Blades web cast the end of the month (Nov > 30th) offered by HP. The presenters are two folks from our group, one > is the manager of the Base OS and the other person is the Engineer > who was the project leader for the Blades project for VMS. This will > be excellent and I promise you it will be worth your time. > > There are not a lot of space left since we have been broadcasting this > via the website and emails for over a month. > > The HP group sponsering this is not familiar with the VMS community so > they are a little suprised with the amount of people that are > registered. Then she told me, "well they will drop out any way and > probably will not ask any questions", I told her that the VMS people I > know don't usually quit and usually always ask a lot of questions (so > plan the time) > > This web site is on the VMS page and will connect you. > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/new/events.html > > Warm Regards, > Sue Ok Folks, This note stream has really gone all over the place. I just wanted to inform you about a Blades Web Cast that is almost sold out. So some folks figured out how to register. It took a lot of work to get this to happen and this is the first VMS TOS web cast at HP. You can be happy about it or ........ sue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:45:05 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: <45267$47434754$cef8887a$13898@TEKSAVVY.COM> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Now, my guess is that 99.9% of those with a serious VMS interest > also have access to a regular PC. Of course this is no real problem. People who are into VMS are into quality, and they are therefore far more likely to go with MAC than the general population. If the MAC has about 7% market share, then one could expect at least 10% of VMS users to be on MACs or Linux. Secondly, the reason that HP's statistics show 99.9% are on windows is simple: When you build a webcast using technology that only works on windows, then of course your statistics will show an overwhelming percentage of users on windows. And some manager then claims to his bosses that since 99.9% of users are on windows, they don't need to change their webcast technology to accomodate others. What they really should have is a portion of the REGISTRATION page that describes exactly what technology is needed by the client to view/participate in that webcast, and then have some checkbox that says "I would like to attend, but I do not have the software to view it". This might give HP a better idea of just how many people are inconvenienced by HP's technology decisions for webcasts. But HP doesn't care. They are a wintel company and only cater to wintel users. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:59:11 -0500 From: "Carl Friedberg" Subject: Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Message-ID: <890539d90711201559m55a212eflb5bd95588d5c59fd@mail.gmail.com> WWW, On Nov 19, 2007 8:49 PM, William Webb wrote: > They pulled 17 MILES of cable of various types (not to mention vintages) up > from underneath that floor. Copper for recycling is worth about $3.25/pound, I believe. I wonder what they did with that copper... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:50:25 -0500 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Message-ID: <8660a3a10711201650h7db47e98l9a84244bd64c02be@mail.gmail.com> ------=_Part_25722_33408653.1195606225294 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Nov 20, 2007 6:59 PM, Carl Friedberg wrote: > WWW, > > On Nov 19, 2007 8:49 PM, William Webb wrote: > > They pulled 17 MILES of cable of various types (not to mention vintages) > up > > from underneath that floor. > > Copper for recycling is worth about $3.25/pound, I believe. I wonder what > they did with that copper... > They may have excessed it or they may have thrown it away...I don't recall. This was one of those situations where they put our cubicles about 20-30 minutes away from any of the datacenters, so I was less closely involved in the datacenter ops goings on than would have been the case had my office actually been *in* the same building as the datacenter. ------=_Part_25722_33408653.1195606225294 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On Nov 20, 2007 6:59 PM, Carl Friedberg <frida.fried@gmail.com> wrote:
WWW,

On Nov 19, 2007 8:49 PM, William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote:
> They pulled 17 MILES of cable of various types (not to mention vintages) up
> from underneath that floor.

Copper for recycling is worth about $3.25/pound, I believe. I wonder what
they did with that copper...

They may have excessed it or they may have thrown it away...I don't recall.

This was one of those situations where they put our cubicles about 20-30 minutes away from any of the datacenters, so I was less closely involved in the datacenter ops goings on than would have been the case had my office actually been *in* the same building as the datacenter.

------=_Part_25722_33408653.1195606225294-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:45:06 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Message-ID: <4743B7D2.7030208@comcast.net> William Webb wrote: > > > On 19 Nov 2007 16:02:51 -0600, Bob Koehler > > wrote: > > In article , "Tom Linden" < > tom@kednos.company > writes: > > > > > > BTW, I have a hard time believing that picture is a real installation > > > > I don't. I think I've seen worse. > > > > > > I *know* I've seen worse. > > One place I've spent time decided to get all the orphaned copper out > from under the floors of one of its datacenters. > > It seems that all that redundant cable was getting in the way of things > like, well- airflow. > > They pulled 17 MILES of cable of various types (not to mention vintages) > up from underneath that floor. > > It truly was a sight to behold. > > WWWebb > > > > I removed a few hundred pounds of CI cables and SDI cables when a former employer retired the last VAXen! There were a CI coupler, two HSC95s three racks full of RA series disks, etc. I could see by the remaining cables, where an old 11/780 had been! A local computer dealer hauled away two VAX 6000/300, an 8350, 2 HSC95, a Star Coupler, the disks, a hard copy console, etc, etc, etc. AIRC he gave us $600 for the (large) truckload of stuff he hauled away. I had offered the stuff here but got no takers. A pair of Alphaserver 4100s had replaced the VAXen and and a StorageWorks RAID Array (2 HSZ50, and a 24 slot shelf) replaced all the RA series. . . . Then there were the old 9-track reel to reel tape drives. . . . Oh, the nostalgia. . . . ------------------------------ Date: 20 Nov 2007 14:17:19 GMT From: DAVISM@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) Subject: SFTP client compatibility Message-ID: We're running... HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.5 on an AlphaServer DS15 running OpenVMS V8.2 Is there a SFTP client for Mac OS X or Windows that works properly with the SFTP "server" that comes bundled with this version of TCP/IP Services? I have tried Fetch v5.2 (on the Mac) and CoreFTP (under Windows) and both have "issues" presenting things from the server properly. Is there any hope for proper presentation of ODS-5 volumes? Thanks, Mike -- | Systems Specialist: CBE,MSE Michael T. Davis (Mike) | Departmental Networking/Computing http://www.ecr6.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ | The Ohio State University | 197 Watts, (614) 292-6928 ------------------------------ Date: 20 Nov 2007 16:12:19 GMT From: DAVISM@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) Subject: Re: SFTP client compatibility Message-ID: In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >In article , > DAVISM@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) writes: >> >> >> We're running... >> >> HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.5 >> on an AlphaServer DS15 running OpenVMS V8.2 >> >>Is there a SFTP client for Mac OS X or Windows that works properly with the >>SFTP "server" that comes bundled with this version of TCP/IP Services? I > have >>tried Fetch v5.2 (on the Mac) and CoreFTP (under Windows) and both have >>"issues" presenting things from the server properly. Is there any hope for >>proper presentation of ODS-5 volumes? > >I've been using SFTP from Mac OS X without a problem now that I got to >HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 6. Before that, >an EXIT at the SFTP prompt would hang the client up. > >What is it that doesn't see to be working? FWIW, Fetch v5.3 behaves the same. The behavior with Fetch is at least a little better than CoreFTP, which doesn't present any file listing. Fetch doesn't know the difference between a folder and a file, though, at least going by the icons it uses to present the server contents. (The icons for files and folders seem to be assigned randomly by Fetch.) The same VMS server accessed via conventional FTP from either client is fine. I suspect by "SFTP from Mac OS X" you are referring to a command line client. Unfortunately, our end-users don't typically know what a command line is, so we need to have a GUI-based client. While conventional FTP works, the "powers that be" have mandated that any uploads to a "critical" Web server be encrypted. > >-- >VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > >http://tmesis.com/drat.html Regards, Mike -- | Systems Specialist: CBE,MSE Michael T. Davis (Mike) | Departmental Networking/Computing http://www.ecr6.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ | The Ohio State University | 197 Watts, (614) 292-6928 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:31:35 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: SFTP client compatibility Message-ID: In article , DAVISM@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) writes: > > > >In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > >>In article , >> DAVISM@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) writes: >>> >>> >>> We're running... >>> >>> HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.5 >>> on an AlphaServer DS15 running OpenVMS V8.2 >>> >>>Is there a SFTP client for Mac OS X or Windows that works properly with the >>>SFTP "server" that comes bundled with this version of TCP/IP Services? I >> have >>>tried Fetch v5.2 (on the Mac) and CoreFTP (under Windows) and both have >>>"issues" presenting things from the server properly. Is there any hope for >>>proper presentation of ODS-5 volumes? >> >>I've been using SFTP from Mac OS X without a problem now that I got to >>HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 6. Before that, >>an EXIT at the SFTP prompt would hang the client up. >> >>What is it that doesn't see to be working? > > FWIW, Fetch v5.3 behaves the same. The behavior with Fetch is at >least a little better than CoreFTP, which doesn't present any file listing. >Fetch doesn't know the difference between a folder and a file, though, at >least going by the icons it uses to present the server contents. (The icons >for files and folders seem to be assigned randomly by Fetch.) The same VMS >server accessed via conventional FTP from either client is fine. OK. I didn't download Fetch (all I found was a shareware demo) but I did download Cyberduck from http://www.macupdate.com I've set this up before for people needing to do ftp/sftp. It seems to work fine with sftp from my Alpha to my Powerbook. Give it a looksee. Let me know if you find anything problematic and what. I'd like to know its shortcomings -- if any -- as, like I've said, I've recommended that other people use it. > I suspect by "SFTP from Mac OS X" you are referring to a command line >client. Unfortunately, our end-users don't typically know what a command line >is, so we need to have a GUI-based client. While conventional FTP works, the >"powers that be" have mandated that any uploads to a "critical" Web server be >encrypted. Yes, I use the command line. I can get a lot more done from the CLI with- out resorting to downloading tens of megabytes of applications from sites on the internet. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:00:01 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Very Cool on the VMS site Message-ID: <15a0e0e1-66d5-4158-8f74-9f1ac489c674@i37g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> Just making sure you know about this. For our 30th anniversary we did a guest book . The customer stories are available for everyone to read now. you can go from the hp vms site to the 30th site to the guest site or directly http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/30th/t_guestbook.html These are stories from folks all over the world that are connected to VMS somehow. Since COV has so much influence and If its not to much trouble, there are people that we all know and respect that have responded I would really be very happy if we could value their comments and their time and not find something negative to say about them and their stories. Warm Regards, Sue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:36:08 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: [OT] Out of consulting business? Message-ID: <47436158$0$21926$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Didier_Toulouse wrote: > Hello Friends, > > After 22 years of VMS consulting, I ran out of business in 2003. I had > to find something else to do to feed my family, so I opened a computer > shop and repair center in Toulouse, then I started to sell video > games, then airsoft guns. Today, I run a weaponry, I became gunsmith. > > In case you like firearms and you are running out of business, I am > looking for independent agents wolrdwide, following an increasing > success (after the recent Eurosatory and Milipol shows) in selling > airsoft replicas and other realistic paintball markers (RAM) in France > for force on force training. > > Should you be interested, please send your resumé to didier dot > morandi at airsoftlabs dot fr and/or visit our WEB site > http://www.airsoftlabs.fr > (english version available) > > Thanks, > > DTL F***ing-A man. Now that is an option I never even considered - showing a clear lack of fantasy on my part. Congratulations on successfully realigning yourself. Dweeb ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.637 ************************