INFO-VAX Sun, 20 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 40 Contents: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? RE: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /NOLOGGED Re: RSH service problem Spam from Google Groups user: Re: Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:17:54 +0000 (UTC) From: JKB Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: Le 19-01-2008, à propos de Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS?, William Pechter écrivait dans comp.os.vms : > In article , > Main, Kerry wrote: >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply >>> [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] >>> Sent: January 19, 2008 7:23 AM >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>> Subject: RE: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? >>> >>> In article >>> >> t>, >>> "Main, Kerry" writes: >>> >>> > Certainly MUCH less than the time >>> > > between the beginning of Free VMS and now. And, of course, Unix is >>> > > much >>> > > easier to do than VMS. >>> > >>> > Now these's a statement guaranteed to kick off another OS religion >>> war. >>> >>> Well, Linux has done unix and no-one has done VMS. I rest my case. >> >>Have no idea what that means. As I recall, most Linux types get upset if you >>say Linux is related to UNIX. >> >> >> >>Regards >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultant >>HP Services Canada >>Voice: 613-254-8911 >>Fax: 613-591-4477 >>kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom >>(remove the DOT's and AT) >> >>OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. > > The only Linux types that get upset if you say Linux is related to Unix > are GNU Fanboys and Fangirls. > > Linux is an obvious Unix look-alike clone. Yes, and ? I know a lot of different Unices (unix-based _and_ unix-clone) from SunOS 4.1 and Ultrix to Tru64, Linux, Solaris and OpenBSD. The only difference between all of them is a point of view between unix-like and unix based. There are a lot of differences bewteen two unices, but these differences are not greater between unix based and unix like than two unices based. I should add that in most cases, Linux works better in heterogenous environment than all regular Unix based. Today, FreeVMS is _only_ a VMS clone. But it is the only chance to keep VMS alive for a long time. I haven't seen any new VMS system for a long time (due to hardware and software prices) and I shouldn't propose a new VMS installation today because some systems work better an are cheaper (for example : Sun T2000 with Solaris or Linux). Don't forget that if VMS is a very good OS, HP don't know how sell it. Regards, JKB -- Le cerveau, c'est un véritable scandale écologique. Il représente 2% de notre masse corporelle, mais disperse à lui seul 25% de l'énergie que nous consommons tous les jours. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 2008 16:31:16 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vhbakF1mt5voU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply >> [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] >> Sent: January 18, 2008 2:45 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? >> >> In article <4786D5CC.94F055F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera >> writes: >> >> > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >> > > >> > > In article <4781869B.FA5DD8F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera >> > > writes: >> > > >> > > > There is a Free VMS project around. Haven't heard much about it >> lately, >> > > > though. Google this group for the Free VMS project. >> > > >> > > It's been around for years and what they have is very rudimentary. >> > >> > Remember the early days of Linux? >> >> What was the time span between Linus's first attempts and the first >> ready-to-use "commercial" Linux? > > Imho, there are so many monthly security patches, I would say it is > still in bake mode. Course, Windows is in the same boat, so I guess > it depends on what you mean by ready-to-use. You know Kerry, if your just going to trot out the same tired old mantra maybe you should just hit the delete key and let people who have useful information to provide answer. I think everytime this comes up I will just have to remind people that "FreeVMS" is nothing but Linux with a cheap imitation of DCL layered over it to hide all the warts. One meaningless mantra deserves another. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 2008 16:33:05 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vhbe1F1mt5voU2@mid.individual.net> In article <47915cdd$0$15760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > (Perhaps we should start a petition to get Apple to hire Sue :-) I thought you liked her? No reason to get nasty..... bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 2008 16:34:30 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vhbgmF1mt5voU3@mid.individual.net> In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > In article > , > "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> Certainly MUCH less than the time >> > between the beginning of Free VMS and now. And, of course, Unix is >> > much >> > easier to do than VMS. >> >> Now these's a statement guaranteed to kick off another OS religion war. > > Well, Linux has done unix and no-one has done VMS. I rest my case. Which could mean that Unix is easier. Or it could just mean that there is not enough interest in VMS for anyone to waste their time. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:06:11 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu] > Sent: January 20, 2008 11:31 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? > > In article > t>, > "Main, Kerry" writes: > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply > >> [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] > >> Sent: January 18, 2008 2:45 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? > >> > >> In article <4786D5CC.94F055F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > >> writes: > >> > >> > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > >> > > > >> > > In article <4781869B.FA5DD8F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J > Dachtera > >> > > writes: > >> > > > >> > > > There is a Free VMS project around. Haven't heard much about > it > >> lately, > >> > > > though. Google this group for the Free VMS project. > >> > > > >> > > It's been around for years and what they have is very > rudimentary. > >> > > >> > Remember the early days of Linux? > >> > >> What was the time span between Linus's first attempts and the first > >> ready-to-use "commercial" Linux? > > > > Imho, there are so many monthly security patches, I would say it is > > still in bake mode. Course, Windows is in the same boat, so I guess > > it depends on what you mean by ready-to-use. > > You know Kerry, if your just going to trot out the same tired old > mantra maybe you should just hit the delete key and let people who > have useful information to provide answer. > Hard to argue with hard facts that are backed with real pointers. Now, you can say Windows/Linux have better marketing and other things, but that does not take away from the reality of their numerous security issues and patches released each and every month. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:31:28 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /NOLOGGED Message-ID: <47934e15$0$16219$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> A while ago, somone proposed CREATE/TERM/DETACHED/NOPROCESS as a way to start a login process when you press return in the decterm window. I had been using CREATE/TERM/DETACHED/NOLOGGED before. The /NOPROCESS has an advantage since there isn't a timer started when the window is created. /NOLOGGED automatically displays SYS$ANNOUCE and the Username: prompt and the timer starts ticking right away. However, /NOPROCESS results in an interactive session which does not have a properly defined DECW$%DISPLAY logical, so subsequent invocation of X utilities will either fail, or go to the wrong display. /NOLOGGED does inherit the DECW$DISPLAY value that was in use when the decterm was created so subsequent invocation of X applications will target the same display as the decterm. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:06:40 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: RSH service problem Message-ID: <47934851$0$22100$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> > Now, I just have to figure out why it isn't working. (it times out, I > suspect perhaps waiting for a password). > >> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 19-JAN-2008 21:30:59.25 %%%%%%%%%%% >> Message from user INTERnet on CHAIN >> INTERnet ACP RSH Abort Request from Host: 10.0.0.20 Port: 957 >> >> TCPIP> Now I have to figure ou >> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 19-JAN-2008 21:30:59.25 %%%%%%%%%%% >> Message from user INTERnet on CHAIN >> INTERnet ACP AUXS failure Status = %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT After Lots of reading and mucking about, I have a solution. Turns out that RSH is like FTP, the server connects back to the client for the response. The Mac has a firewall. The mAc was blocking the response. I had heard many times that one could turn off the firewall really easily. But on the MaC GUI, the "on/off" seems to imply turning off all communications (as opposed to turning off the firewall). Anyhow, it turns out that OS-X uses IPFW firewall. The "server" version of OS-X has a full featured GUI (unlike the crippled one on the client version of OS-X). sudo ipfw add 01000 allow ip from 10.0.0.0/8 to any in did the trick, allowing any/all connections from my lan to the mac. RSH worked perfectly after that. Since the return connection port is not known in advance, it is not possible to just open certain ports. IPFW seems very powerful once unleashed from the gui-for-dummies on the client version of OS-X. > http://www.informit.com/library/content.aspx?b=Mac_OS_X_Unleashed&seqNum=291 Gives a good overview. (and it seems to have a pretty comprehensive documentation of the os-x command line. Now that I have made that single change, the GUI "firewall" is greyed out, telling me another firewall is running :-) And I have no idea if this change will survive a reboot. Still haven't found out where those configs are stored. Something to say about VMS documentation though. That TCPIP Services management refence manual is incredibly helpful for VMS because you have everything you need in one manual. No need to spend hours seraching the net to find what sort of software is installed on the mac. Of course, I have no idea if ipfw will continue to be used in subsequent releases of os-x. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:08:21 GMT From: "John E. 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Gilbert" Subject: Re: Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Message-ID: <47934A6A.7070901@comcast.net> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > yyyc186 wrote: > >> Given that OOP >> has fallen out of favor in the industry > > > On what planet ? Not this one ! > >> He >> went on and on about the OOP virtues which weren't covered > > > Which is rather silly. > > I assume it s a book about programming on VMS and not a book > about programming in general. > > None of system services, run time libraries etc. have object > oriented API's. > > Only 1 out of the 6 languages are object oriented. Object orientation has a lot more to do with the design of the program than with the language it's written in! A language may make object orientation easy or difficult and may enforce object orientation or not but OO has nothing to do with the language the code is written in. OO defines one or more data structures packaged with the legitimate operations on those data structures. Someone, maybe Brian, commented recently on the object orientation of code written in Macro-32!! Macro-32 is by no means an OO language but that shouldn't prevent you from writing OO in Macro. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.040 ************************