INFO-VAX Tue, 22 Apr 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 224 Contents: CPU Cooling Technologies (CoolIT Systems) Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Max drive size for HSZ22 ? Re: OT: IBM looking at Macintosh Re: OT: IBM looking at Macintosh Re: The MBM> prompt is what?? How do I exit?? Re: The MBM> prompt is what?? How do I exit?? Re: The MBM> prompt is what?? How do I exit?? Re: TL892 (two TZ89s) one "In-Flex" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:25:41 -0500 From: "Cross Michael C Mr CIV USAF 53 CSS/SCO" Subject: CPU Cooling Technologies (CoolIT Systems) Message-ID: <138449ECC94125418289A81B26BA97B80136C246@VFEGMLEG01.Enterprise.afmc.ds.af.mil> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8A3ED.DF726ECD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Does anyone have any experience using CPU cooling technologies? In your opinion, where do these technologies have real applications? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8A3ED.DF726ECD Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone have any experience using CPU cooling technologies? In your opinion, where do these technologies have = real applications?

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8A3ED.DF726ECD-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:15:58 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kari_Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Message-ID: <480ce7f3$0$8173$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> You should be able to rebuild the raidset if there hasn't been a data loss. The following command should start the rebuild of the raidset. HSD50> set yourraidsetname replace=DISKxxx <- this is the spare disk If the howling disk keeps running until the raidset is rebuilt, you can replace that also. When you are ready to replace the howling disk (= when the raidset is in normal state again) you need to remove the howling disk from the raidet with the following command: HSD50> set yourraidsetname remove=DISKxxx <- this is the disk you are removing from the raidset After that you remove it physically and insert a replacement disk and do: HSD50> run config Then you do the replace command again with the new disk as the DISKxxx Then you should have the raidset running normally again. Regards, Kari Muddflapp Mohican wrote: > > Hi. > > I have a dual redundant hsd50 controller (SCSI over DSSI). > One of the storagesets was a 4 x 18GB raidset that went into reduced mode. > There was not a large enough hot (or cold) spare available at the time. > When I replaced the 4th drive, one of the remaining 3 drives was howling > and spun down before the 4th drive could be added. > > Is there a secret HSD toolset that can resurrect a dead reduced raidset? > All 3 drives of the 4 disk reduced raidset will spin up. The third drive > will only stay spinning until it gets hot and starts howling. > > I have replaced the 4th 18G drive and currently sits as a spareset. > > The controller runs HSOF 5.7 under OpenVMS VAX V6.2 ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 15:40:55 -0500 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Message-ID: <5P6F8yDjwtQj@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , Muddflapp Mohican writes: > I have a dual redundant hsd50 controller (SCSI over DSSI). > One of the storagesets was a 4 x 18GB raidset that went into reduced mode. > There was not a large enough hot (or cold) spare available at the time. > When I replaced the 4th drive, one of the remaining 3 drives was howling > and spun down before the 4th drive could be added. > > Is there a secret HSD toolset that can resurrect a dead reduced raidset? > All 3 drives of the 4 disk reduced raidset will spin up. The third drive > will only stay spinning until it gets hot and starts howling. I would say you have a serious problem. I have heard a recommendation to _refrigerate_ a bad drive to get the data from it. I have no clue whether this is even reasonable or safe. A BACKUP/PHYSICAL to tape (or a Unix/Linux dd command) might have some hope of successfully cloning the drive. If your data is important, seek professional help. It's costly but if as you say the noisy drive still has good data they may be the most likely to recover it for you. If they are HP drives, I would start with them first. Or the original manufacturer - Seagate, IBM (now Hitachi), ... whoever. A coworker's wife is a Hitachi, previously IBM, engineer, and I hear stories from time to time about white knuckle recovery operations on drives shipped from customers who did not have a good backup... There are professional recovery services as well. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org > I have replaced the 4th 18G drive and currently sits as a spareset. > > The controller runs HSOF 5.7 under OpenVMS VAX V6.2 ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 15:50:38 -0500 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Message-ID: In article <5P6F8yDjwtQj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) writes: >In article , Muddflapp Mohican writes: >> Is there a secret HSD toolset that can resurrect a dead reduced raidset? >> All 3 drives of the 4 disk reduced raidset will spin up. The third drive >> will only stay spinning until it gets hot and starts howling. [...] > I have heard a recommendation to _refrigerate_ a bad drive to get the > data from it. I have no clue whether this is even reasonable or safe. > A BACKUP/PHYSICAL to tape (or a Unix/Linux dd command) might have some > hope of successfully cloning the drive. I forgot about controller metadata. On the HSx50's, you have to set a drive TRANSPORTABLE to be able to get at all of the blocks. This _may_ involve writing to the drive. So it may be better to put the drive on some other SCSI bus in order to copy the bits from it. Personally, I would tend to use Linux just because dd is more versatile than $ BACKUP/PHYSICAL . But, as I said, you may be best off getting the professionals to work on this. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:53:05 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Message-ID: George Cornelius wrote: > In article , Muddflapp Mohican writes: > >> I have a dual redundant hsd50 controller (SCSI over DSSI). >> One of the storagesets was a 4 x 18GB raidset that went into reduced mode. >> There was not a large enough hot (or cold) spare available at the time. >> When I replaced the 4th drive, one of the remaining 3 drives was howling >> and spun down before the 4th drive could be added. >> >> Is there a secret HSD toolset that can resurrect a dead reduced raidset? >> All 3 drives of the 4 disk reduced raidset will spin up. The third drive >> will only stay spinning until it gets hot and starts howling. > > I would say you have a serious problem. > > I have heard a recommendation to _refrigerate_ a bad drive to get the > data from it. I have no clue whether this is even reasonable or safe. > A BACKUP/PHYSICAL to tape (or a Unix/Linux dd command) might have some > hope of successfully cloning the drive. > > If your data is important, seek professional help. It's costly but if > as you say the noisy drive still has good data they may be the most > likely to recover it for you. > > If they are HP drives, I would start with them first. Or the original > manufacturer - Seagate, IBM (now Hitachi), ... whoever. > > A coworker's wife is a Hitachi, previously IBM, engineer, and I hear > stories from time to time about white knuckle recovery operations on > drives shipped from customers who did not have a good backup... > > There are professional recovery services as well. > Yes, there are. But I have heard stories about $1,000 US/megabyte recovered. True, or not, it's a poor position to be in!! And regular backups are almost certainly cheaper. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 16:25:42 -0500 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Message-ID: <0ysWVdFhD7o4@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Yes, there are. But I have heard stories about $1,000 US/megabyte > recovered. I believe there is a setup cost - a minimum fee associated with getting into a position to perform a recovery - after which the cost per megabyte may be a bit lower than what you quote. But if you can't get the thing to spin up at all, and the manufacturer doesn't have some tricks up his sleeve (replace the bearings?? perhaps not...), then the next jump up in recovery expense is probably rather high. By the way, I have heard that it is (was) relatively common for the circuit board on a drive to fail with the mechanism intact, with a correspondingly less expensive recovery option available. In the current situation that is almost certainly not the case with the second drive that failed; and the first one that failed is most likely out of date and therefore close to useless. Still, three of each four blocks contain data you might want (assuming RAID 5), so, who knows... It's that troublesome parity block that is the killer in trying to recover a reduced raidset where one of the remaining drives has stale data... -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:49:37 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Message-ID: George Cornelius wrote: > In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> Yes, there are. But I have heard stories about $1,000 US/megabyte >> recovered. > > I believe there is a setup cost - a minimum fee associated with getting > into a position to perform a recovery - after which the cost per megabyte > may be a bit lower than what you quote. > That $1000/megabyte recovered figure is about ten or twelve years old and it was rumor rather than personal experience. I haven't heard anything about the price of such services since. The last time I had a disk crash we simply restored from backup. It doesn't happen often and, if you pay attention to your error counters, you may see some warning signs prior to any catastrophic failure. When I saw a disk start to log media errors (emphasis on the plural) I simply asked DEC/Compaq/HP to replace it under warranty or contract, as appropriate. Anything REALLY critical was RAID 1 or RAID 5 anyway. The only time a disk ever rolled over and died on me happened while I was recovering from a triple bypass. My boss called me at home and asked me what to to. I told him where to find a spare drive, had him replace the failed drive, and restore from backup. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:42:51 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: HSD52 dead reduced raidset Message-ID: <8660a3a10804211642l4b209a3cv82110c6f97e52d93@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > George Cornelius wrote: > > > In article , "Richard B. > Gilbert" writes: > > > > > Yes, there are. But I have heard stories about $1,000 US/megabyte > recovered. > > > > > > > I believe there is a setup cost - a minimum fee associated with getting > > into a position to perform a recovery - after which the cost per megabyte > > may be a bit lower than what you quote. > > > > > That $1000/megabyte recovered figure is about ten or twelve years old and > it was rumor rather than personal experience. I haven't heard anything > about the price of such services since. The last time I had a disk crash we > simply restored from backup. It doesn't happen often and, if you pay > attention to your error counters, you may see some warning signs prior to > any catastrophic failure. When I saw a disk start to log media errors > (emphasis on the plural) I simply asked DEC/Compaq/HP to replace it under > warranty or contract, as appropriate. Anything REALLY critical was RAID 1 or > RAID 5 anyway. The only time a disk ever rolled over and died on me > happened while I was recovering from a triple bypass. My boss called me at > home and asked me what to to. > > I told him where to find a spare drive, had him replace the failed drive, > and restore from backup. > > > ROTFFLMAO. Except for the fact that you actually told him the *right* thing to to to recover his data, that's a very BOFHish story. I once interviewed at a place that wanted me to look at whatever they did and figure out ways to make it more efficient. This place had an entire floor on an office building; Just about everything d|i|g|i|t|a|l and Compaq had pretty much made. And some third-party stuff, too. One of the first questions I asked, of course, was about how they did their backups. I was told that the second shift operators kicked them off in the early evening as the workload settled down, and that the morning guys would kill them off because they hadn't finished by the time the daytime workload ramped up and things started "getting slow". I finished the interview, thanked them for their time, and ran like hell. WWWebb WW [What *was* your username?] Webb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:51:15 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: Michael Kraemer wrote: > In article <673tb7F2lqjjfU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill > Gunshannon) writes: >> This red herring is getting as tired as Kerry's "5-20 patches" mantra. >> How many times do I have to tell you, I am on the inside. I am an >> Information Systems Technician Warrant Officer. I and my peers are >> "the subject matter experts" when it comes to information systems. My >> unit is part of DISA who approves and certifies all AIS's in DOD. > > don't be too specific here, > otherwise you might have to shoot us all. Too late! Goodbye! ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 14:47:53 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: In article <673tb7F2lqjjfU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> In article <6718lhF2m4eapU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>> Somebody tell me again how DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers! >> >> I'm, sorry, we were unable to ascertain need to know. > > This red herring is getting as tired as Kerry's "5-20 patches" mantra. > How many times do I have to tell you, I am on the inside. Tired of the facts becaudse you can't make them go away? Everyone one the inside knows about need to know. You job as a subject matter expert is limitted to those subjects they want to be able to ask you about. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:25:59 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: <00A78733.51B1D540@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <673tb7F2lqjjfU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> In article <6718lhF2m4eapU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>> Somebody tell me again how DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers! >> >> I'm, sorry, we were unable to ascertain need to know. > >This red herring is getting as tired as Kerry's "5-20 patches" mantra. >How many times do I have to tell you, I am on the inside. I am an >Information Systems Technician Warrant Officer. I and my peers are >"the subject matter experts" when it comes to information systems. My >unit is part of DISA who approves and certifies all AIS's in DOD. >All that being said, I have yet to run into any of my peers who has >ever seen a DOD VMS system. (Yes, I do ask them!) I deal with people >at the top of the AIS policy ladder and have specifically offered my >services if they had need for someone with VMS experience. To this >point I have not been called upon for even one case of needed VMS >assistance. I know there are still VMS systems in existance. But they >appear to be the very best examples of legacy systems. They run one >or two fixed programs. They see no new development and very limited >maintenance (probably due to a fear that anything done may result in >breaking the running application.) If this describes "VMS's biggest >customer" then things are a lot worse off than people here realize. OK: 1) DOD can be one of VMS's biggest customers without VMS being one of DOD's biggest vendors. Tom Linden says they're one of _his_ biggest customers, but I'm pretty sure he's not one of their biggest vendors. 2) Do you know anything about the JSTARS program? That was announced as a big program win with the Air Force a few years back, and was supposed to be ongoing. (I don't know anything about it other than that it was so announced.) 3) It's not logically impossible that there are a bunch of service contracts in place for those legacy systems that result in a bunch of income. [I'm not making an argument about marketing, about the ultimate health of VMS, etc, etc, etc; I'm just saying that the proof you've offered doesn't prima facie make the case for "DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers" being untrue.] -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:58:01 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: <480cffff$0$7291$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > All that being said, I have yet to run into any of my peers who has > ever seen a DOD VMS system. You need to start wearing an aluminium foil hat to protect you from the special brainwashing waves around DOD facilities. What is really happening is that VMS is being used by black ops, super secret "doesn't exist, no we don't torture" type of operations. They chose VMS exactly because they knew that normal people wouldn't understand it, not know how to get in, and what to do if they ever got in. And because those are all black ops, the few VMS gurus involved will never talk on c.o.v. about those systems. I suspect all Tadpole laptops were rounded up to be installed in those black vans that go around and kidnap people from the streets to be rendered in syria and other places. It is no wonder HP doesn't want to market VMS is VMS is associated with the types of uses civilised societies do not tolerate. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:10:16 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: <480D10C8.5070509@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: [...] > > What is really happening is that VMS is being used by black ops, super > secret "doesn't exist, no we don't torture" type of operations. They > chose VMS exactly because they knew that normal people wouldn't > understand it, not know how to get in, and what to do if they ever got > in. And because those are all black ops, the few VMS gurus involved will > never talk on c.o.v. about those systems. > > I suspect all Tadpole laptops were rounded up to be installed in those > black vans that go around and kidnap people from the streets to be > rendered in syria and other places. > > It is no wonder HP doesn't want to market VMS is VMS is associated with > the types of uses civilised societies do not tolerate. Sorry, I don't buy it. No proof. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 23:11:44 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: <674l9gF2n0ghcU1@mid.individual.net> In article <673tb7F2lqjjfU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > All that being said, I have yet to run into any of my peers who has > ever seen a DOD VMS system. (Yes, I do ask them!) Hold on to your hats!! Today I ran into one of my peers who has actually seen a DOD VMS system. He used to work at the Hoffman Building in VA which is the headquarters for all Army personnel systems and he actually remembers when they had VMS systems there. He thought they were pretty good. But they decommissioned it several years ago. Sorry guys. That's reality. The group I am with now makes up somewhere in the area of 600 man years of Army IT experience covering more than 30 calendar years of time and pretty much every theater of operations and out of all of this, one man has seen VMS in use by DA and that was years ago. If the cream of Army IT never work with these VMS systems, just who do you think does? I should be really honest, however. I, too, have seen VMS in use in DA. Of course, that was at the Military Academy in the Computing Science Department which is probably more academia than government and anyway, that was over 20 years ago and has probably been gone for more than 18 years. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 23:31:23 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: <674meaF2n29kqU1@mid.individual.net> In article <00A78733.51B1D540@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes: > In article <673tb7F2lqjjfU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>In article , >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >>> In article <6718lhF2m4eapU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>> >>>> Somebody tell me again how DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers! >>> >>> I'm, sorry, we were unable to ascertain need to know. >> >>This red herring is getting as tired as Kerry's "5-20 patches" mantra. >>How many times do I have to tell you, I am on the inside. I am an >>Information Systems Technician Warrant Officer. I and my peers are >>"the subject matter experts" when it comes to information systems. My >>unit is part of DISA who approves and certifies all AIS's in DOD. >>All that being said, I have yet to run into any of my peers who has >>ever seen a DOD VMS system. (Yes, I do ask them!) I deal with people >>at the top of the AIS policy ladder and have specifically offered my >>services if they had need for someone with VMS experience. To this >>point I have not been called upon for even one case of needed VMS >>assistance. I know there are still VMS systems in existance. But they >>appear to be the very best examples of legacy systems. They run one >>or two fixed programs. They see no new development and very limited >>maintenance (probably due to a fear that anything done may result in >>breaking the running application.) If this describes "VMS's biggest >>customer" then things are a lot worse off than people here realize. > > OK: > > 1) DOD can be one of VMS's biggest customers without VMS being one of > DOD's biggest vendors. Tom Linden says they're one of _his_ biggest > customers, but I'm pretty sure he's not one of their biggest vendors. Your probably right, but if DOD accounts for only maybe a dozen systems, is it really something to keep bragging about? > > > 2) Do you know anything about the JSTARS program? That was announced as a big > program win with the Air Force a few years back, and was supposed to be > ongoing. (I don't know anything about it other than that it was so announced.) A few years ago is right. Fielded in 1991, approved for production in 1996, last system delivered in 2005. A total of 8 systems. There is much more information about the airframe than anything else and no mention of VMS at all. I wonder if it has been ported to Windows yet? > > 3) It's not logically impossible that there are a bunch of service contracts > in place for those legacy systems that result in a bunch of income. Not HP's contract, Northropp-Grumman. Somehow i doubt they are sharing the profits. > > [I'm not making an argument about marketing, about the ultimate health of VMS, > etc, etc, etc; I'm just saying that the proof you've offered doesn't prima > facie make the case for "DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers" being untrue.] I can't say wether or not DOD is one of the biggest VMS customers but if it really is, and the presence is as negligible as it appears, that speaks volumes about the state of affairs with VMS. Maybe it is just not something that people should spend so much effort bragging about. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 23:46:25 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: <674nahF2me5j8U1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <673tb7F2lqjjfU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> In article , >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >>> In article <6718lhF2m4eapU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>> >>>> Somebody tell me again how DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers! >>> >>> I'm, sorry, we were unable to ascertain need to know. >> >> This red herring is getting as tired as Kerry's "5-20 patches" mantra. >> How many times do I have to tell you, I am on the inside. > > Tired of the facts becaudse you can't make them go away? Everyone > one the inside knows about need to know. You job as a subject > matter expert is limitted to those subjects they want to be able to > ask you about. Bob, this is just getting funnier all the time. "Need to know" applies to classified information. VMS is not classified. If there was any chance at all that I or any of my peers might be put in a place where we would have to deal with a VMS systems we would have received at least familiarization with it. There is no such training. We receive training in Cisco, Linux, Windows, Solaris, Oracle, Web development as well as various forms of communication and things specific to military systems. Lots of stuff, much of which most of us will never work with. And there are even classes held outside normal signal channels for people who are going to work with things like logistics AIS's. But no VMS. None. Zilch. Zero. We are prepared for a lot of possible contingencies because we don't know until we get to an assignment just what we are going to need to be the sub ject matter experts for. We need to be able to deal with any and all possible IT situations. Are you getting the picture? Actually, I doubt it. I don't think some people here will accept the reality of the situation even after HP announces the end of VMS. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:41:45 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: bradhamilton wrote in news:480B98FB.4070906@comcast.net: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > [...] >> >> On a side note, I am once again serving with DOD (til mid August >> this time) and we constantly hear the talk of "99.999% uptime >> required" and "critical systems with lives depending on them". >> And not a sign or mention of VMS anywhere, go figure. :-) >> >> Somebody tell me again how DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers! > > OK, but permit me to turn the question around a little bit: > > With the uptime and life-saving requirements listed above, how does > Windows accomplish these goals? I realize that you can't go into > detail without killing me :-) but there must be general > principles and rules that illustrate the stability of Windows in > these critical environments. > > The reason I ask is because of a similar situation that I see in the > healthcare field. Many of you are probably acquainted with GE > Healthcare systems. You may have seen their logo on MRI or CAT scan > equipment, and there are other devices that they manufacture, as > well. Since these are critical clinical systems, they have strict > uptime and reliability requirements as well, since people's lives > may depend on the information they render. This all reminds me of Microsoft's end-user license agreement. Here are a couple paragraphs: 22. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. The Limited Warranty that appears above is the only express warranty made to you and is provided in lieu of any other express warranties or similar obligations (if any) created by any advertising, documentation, packaging, or other communications. Except for the Limited Warranty and to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers (including MS, Microsoft Corporation (including its subsidiaries) and their respective suppliers) provide the SOFTWARE and support services (if any) AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS, and hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, whether express, implied or statutory, including, but not limited to, any (if any) implied warranties, duties or conditions of merchantability, of fitness for a particular purpose, of reliability or availability, of accuracy or completeness of responses, of results, of workmanlike effort, of lack of viruses, and of lack of negligence, all with regard to the SOFTWARE, and the provision of or failure to provide support or other services, information, software, and related content through the SOFTWARE or otherwise arising out of the use of the SOFTWARE. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT, QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO DESCRIPTION OR NON- INFRINGEMENT WITH REGARD TO THE SOFTWARE. 23. EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. 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Message-ID: See http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10786_div/10786_div.HTML Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:50:23 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: IBM looking at Macintosh Message-ID: On Apr 21, 12:50 am, JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: > >> > AEF UPPERCASE AND PROUD OF IT! > > Warning: see a doctor immediatly if you stay in uppercase for more than > 4 hours at a time. AEF UPPERCASE AND PROUD OF IT! ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 22:57:32 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT: IBM looking at Macintosh Message-ID: <674kesF2n06nbU1@mid.individual.net> In article , AEF writes: > On Apr 21, 12:50 am, JF Mezei wrote: >> AEF wrote: >> >> > AEF UPPERCASE AND PROUD OF IT! >> >> Warning: see a doctor immediatly if you stay in uppercase for more than >> 4 hours at a time. > > AEF UPPERCASE AND PROUD OF IT! Repeating yourself like that is a bad sign!!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:54:42 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: The MBM> prompt is what?? How do I exit?? Message-ID: George Cornelius wrote: > In article <1otP1vNyPmKg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) writes: >> I guess I know that the MBM> prompt is some hardware level management tool, >> and I know that you about have to stand on your head to get into it. >> >> The problem is, I have a serious need to get into the system console and >> another system administrator left this blasted thing running. How do I >> get out of it?? > > > To answer my own question: > > I don't _want_ to get out of it. It apparently _is_ the console > subsystem on my ES47. > > I typed connect and wound up on the VMS console. > > Of course, I lost two days' of console messages, but what the heck... > > Nobody should even need console messages these days, right? > If nobody has fixed the tendency I noticed years ago, to issue a console message every sixty seconds to tell you that the printer is off line, you probably have not missed much! ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2008 14:33:28 -0500 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: The MBM> prompt is what?? How do I exit?? Message-ID: In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > George Cornelius wrote: >> Nobody should even need console messages these days, right? > If nobody has fixed the tendency I noticed years ago, to issue a console > message every sixty seconds to tell you that the printer is off line, > you probably have not missed much! We still get some of those - from the telnet symbiont - not to mention hundreds of telnet login/logout messages. But in this case, we missed an entire reboot sequence, when the system hung for some unknown reason in a shadow set mount and my coworker decided to abort the boot that was underway rather than keep fighting with it. It would have been worthwhile to have the messages, since a VMS license issue cropped up today and I needed to know why one particular license, OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER, did not load. And without a user level license you can only log in at the console. You get the picture. Oh well, at least I had SYSMAN. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:32:43 -0400 From: "Jeff Goodwin" Subject: Re: The MBM> prompt is what?? How do I exit?? Message-ID: <480cebf0$0$12887$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> "George Cornelius" wrote in message news:yMhGb59j5LCF@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article <1otP1vNyPmKg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) writes: >> I guess I know that the MBM> prompt is some hardware level management >> tool, >> and I know that you about have to stand on your head to get into it. >> >> The problem is, I have a serious need to get into the system console and >> another system administrator left this blasted thing running. How do I >> get out of it?? > > > To answer my own question: > > I don't _want_ to get out of it. It apparently _is_ the console > subsystem on my ES47. > > I typed connect and wound up on the VMS console. > > Of course, I lost two days' of console messages, but what the heck... > > Nobody should even need console messages these days, right? > > -- > George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org Setting SRM_AUTO_CONNECT to ON should automatically connect you to the VMS console on boot once the diagnostics are finished. -Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:30:21 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: TL892 (two TZ89s) one "In-Flex" Message-ID: <8660a3a10804211630o7e2e1290lcd176dbdf853fe1a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > > William Webb wrote: > > > It means Call Field Service.and get the drive replaced. > > > > WWWebb > > > > On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Muddflapp Mohican > wrote: > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > What does the "In-Flex" message mean on the TL892 tape library ? > > > > > > The tape library uses SCSI-HVD and has two TZ89s. > > > > > > Drive 0: Idle > > > Drive 1: In-Flex > > > Loader: Idle > > > > > > 0*****-*****9 > > > > > > > > > > I'd recommend replacing the guy who wrote the drive's firmware! "In-Flex" > is meaningless noise to 99.99999% of VMS people. I worked with a number of > different DLT drives and even a tape library (briefly) and never encountered > this string. > I've seen it, I think, twice. We used to beat the heck out of 3 TL892s at Postal; ran 'em about 18 hours a day. Think I saw that particular error once there and once at GlaxoSmithKline. But then, like you, I've looked at a *lot* of tape drives. Started with the ones that used those round things with the big hole in the middle... I think the date of manufacture was chiseled into the chassis in Roman numerals. Best regards, WWWebb ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.224 ************************