INFO-VAX Fri, 02 Feb 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 65 Contents: Re: CONVERT/FDL changes file contents? Re: CONVERT/FDL changes file contents? Re: CONVERT/FDL changes file contents? Re: CONVERT/FDL changes file contents? Re: DECforms Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? hsg80 INFO Re: hsg80 INFO Re: hsg80 INFO Re: hsg80 INFO Re: hsg80 INFO Re: hsg80 INFO Re: hsg80 INFO Re: hsg80 INFO Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: Kermit Large File Support Re: OpenVMS success? Re: OpenVMS success? Re: OpenVMS success? Re: Purveyor CGI mailbox capacity [bit long winded] Re: You gotta see this ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:45:59 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: CONVERT/FDL changes file contents? Message-ID: <52ffucF1ohjt1U1@mid.individual.net> Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > VMS 8.3 on DS20E, but we found the same problem on 7.3-2. > > Users maintaining web pages used binary FTP to upload HTML pages. (This used > to give no problem with CSWS 1.3 but works badly with SWS 2.0). [...] > File organization: Sequential > Shelved state: Online > Caching attribute: Writethrough > File attributes: Allocation: 36, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 > No version limit > Record format: Fixed length 512 byte records [...] > Converted with CONVERT/FDL with this file: > > RECORD > BLOCK_SPAN yes > CARRIAGE_CONTROL carriage_return > FORMAT stream_lf > SIZE 0 > [...] > File organization: Sequential > Shelved state: Online > Caching attribute: Writethrough > File attributes: Allocation: 39, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 > No version limit > Record format: Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 512 bytes > Record attributes: Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes: None > Journaling enabled: None > File protection: System:RE, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:RE > > > The interesting thing about this is that the new file has linefeeds inserted in > it that weren't present in the original. (Sometimes they show up in the middle > of HTML tags, and then the pages don't work.) Yes, CONVERT is the wrong tool here. > In this particular case, the answer is "re-upload the files using ASCII rather > than binary and then a conversion to STMLF works fine." But I was under the > impression that CONVERT was supposed to change file attributes, not contents. > Should I have put something different in my FDL? Am I just missing something? No, don't use CONVERT. CONVERT _does_ change the file. Given a binary upload, a simple SET FILE should do it: $ SET FILE/ATTR=(RAT=NONE, RFM=STMLF) should do it (from memory...I don't have my VMS system up at the moment...refer to HELP). Optionally, you can set a different LRL from 512 bytes, but I don't think that functionally affects anything. Cheers, Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 17:50:56 -0800 From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" Subject: Re: CONVERT/FDL changes file contents? Message-ID: <1170381056.082298.28330@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> On Feb 1, 7:45 pm, Ken Fairfield wrote: > Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: : > > Record format: Fixed length 512 byte records > [...] > > Converted with CONVERT/FDL with this file: > > > RECORD > > BLOCK_SPAN yes > > CARRIAGE_CONTROL carriage_return > > FORMAT stream_lf > > SIZE 0 Think about now. You tell Convert to change a fiel with fixed length 512 byte records to stream_lf. Guess wat that means? Convert asks RMS to read all records, rms blindlt returns 512 byte records, and then is told to write them back as 512 bytes followed with a linefeed. So it will insert (38) linefeeds, 512 bytes apart, whereever that is in the actuall records. Ken> Yes, CONVERT is the wrong tool here. Right. Ken> $ SET FILE/ATTR=(RAT=NONE, RFM=STMLF) Right... although RAT=CR is probably nicer. Ken> Optionally, you can set a different LRL from 512 bytes, but I don't think that functionally affects anything. You could, but it makes no sense. The longest record _is_ 512 bytes (or shorter due to the embedded lf's) It's the MRS you might not want at 512, but 0 or 32767 instead to avoid being blocked from adding records longer than 512, but that's not likely to happen for this usage. Regards, Hein van den Heuvel HvdH Performance Consulting ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:57:11 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: CONVERT/FDL changes file contents? Message-ID: <52fulcF1naej3U1@mid.individual.net> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: [...] > Ken> $ SET FILE/ATTR=(RAT=NONE, RFM=STMLF) > Right... although RAT=CR is probably nicer. > > Ken> Optionally, you can set a different LRL from 512 bytes, but I > don't think that functionally affects anything. > > You could, but it makes no sense. The longest record _is_ 512 bytes > (or shorter due to the embedded lf's) Not really true. The LRL is unknown. The file was transfered in binary so the embedded LFs, which (will) define the record boundaries, can be essentially any number of bytes apart. > It's the MRS you might not want at 512, but 0 or 32767 instead to > avoid being blocked from adding records longer than 512, but that's > not likely to happen for this usage. Certain versions of the C RTL set the MRS or LRL to 32767. That in turn causes problems for certain utilities. (My recollection is that I had trouble COPYing files, created by a certain program written in C, to a DAT tape; I don't recall what the (default) record size for that tape was when it was mounted or initialized... likely 32256...) The actual records in the file were only 80 bytes long. :-( Regards, Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 22:48:32 -0800 From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" Subject: Re: CONVERT/FDL changes file contents? Message-ID: <1170398912.460601.65550@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com> On Feb 1, 11:57 pm, Ken Fairfield wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: : > > Ken> Optionally, you can set a different LRL from 512 bytes, but I > > don't think that functionally affects anything. > > > You could, but it makes no sense. The longest record _is_ 512 bytes > > (or shorter due to the embedded lf's) > > Not really true. The LRL is unknown. The file was transfered > in binary so the embedded LFs, which (will) define the record > boundaries, can be essentially any number of bytes apart. I was thinking about the errorneously converted file. There the LRL is absolutely 512. No record can be longer. You were thinking of the binary file, after a SET FILE/ATTR=RFM=STMF. There the longest record may well be larger and a value of 0 or a large number is appropriate for LRL and MRS Setting it too overly large values has been know to cause trouble with SORT for largish files. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 12:36:57 -0800 From: roland@logikalsolutions.com Subject: Re: DECforms Message-ID: <1170362217.614395.255990@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Thanks Hoff, I've seen messages about TDMS. Was doing research today for the final book in the series. There may be one bridging book in the middle, but I'm working on the last book now. Tentative title "The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture". No, I don't have a planned publication, release, or review date, for those about to ask. I just got the logic book sent off to the proof readers. This one is showing the users how to develop SOA correctly, using ACMS for each and every component and using a distributed cluster so you can suffer a 9/11 type disaster and still continue business as usual as far as the application is concerned. Don't currently have MQ licenses for VMS and Suse Linux which was my initial choice. Not far enough along with this to go asking them either. As I said, there may be a book in the middle. I'm just firming up the picture of where I'm going to end up now. Not really interested in using or writing about anything which requires MS operating systems or software to run. Oh well, I'll hammer it out once I get home and get my new (to me) alpha setup. Thanks again for your time Hoff. You have my email, feel free to drop me an email any time. Roland On Feb 1, 1:49 pm, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > rol...@logikalsolutions.com wrote: > > I did some digging today through this group and through the new on- > > line doc at HP. Is DECforms Web officially dead? The release notes > > for the new version say it is not supported on either Itanium or > > Alpha. > > > They also claimed they dropped DECWindows support in the release > > notes. > > > Wasn't the whole point of DECforms that it could connect to Windoze > > and supported the X terminals? > > DECforms: > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/decforms/ > > From the URL: "HP DECforms engineering is pleased to announce HP > DECforms version 4.0 for OpenVMS Integrity servers and AlphaServer > systems. It is scheduled to begin shipping in March 2006." > > The DECforms SPD also lists support for OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 and up and > on OpenVMS I64 V8.2 and up. > > Per one of the linked pages, the DECforms Web Connector is retired. > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/decforms/webconnect.html > > The above URL lists a contact form for reaching Rick McLaughlin, the > business manager for DECforms, and for the (retired) DECforms Web > Connector. AttachmateWRQ and Ericom are listed on that same web page as > being the vendors for replacements. > > The TDMS package did get rebooted and ported, FWIW, though I don't > know the version status and contacts for that off-hand. > > --www.HoffmanLabs.com > Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:03:01 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Message-ID: Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Or mount the box inside the vegetable > drawer of a refrigerator, and run the cables out the side. All of which > can do what you want, and probably for less cost than you will have by > trying to retrofit the recording drive into this 1U server. I was actually thinking of buying a phone box from British Telecom, you know those boxes where the inside is much bigger than the outside. And heck, I might get one with the time travel option so that web pages would appear on screen before I even type the URL in it :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:00:06 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Message-ID: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote: > 1.) A slimline DVD writer (I'm just testing one for DVDwrite/Cdrecord/ > "copy/rec"). > Does a DS10L have an IDE-Interface build in??? Yep, it has IDE interface inside. So the keyword here is "slimline" to get a unit that has the form factor that would fit in a DS10L ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:32:23 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: Have an HSG80 with 4 shelves. A number of the 18GB drives had gone bad so I decided to upgrade to 74GB drives. I inserted all the new drives a= nd one turned up with the amber light on indicating possibly a bad drive i= n position 5,0 (port, target) I swapped with another drive and the new drive in 5,0 now had the amber = = light on indicating maybe a backplane problem. Anybody experience this? Any suggestions on how to proceed and what to look for? I inspected the = DIN41612 connector and didn't see any missing or bent pins (wouldn't expect that= = anyway, given the mechanics) Also how do you see what the current scsi_version is set to? HSG80-TOP>set this_controller scsi_version=3D? Your options are: SCSI-2 SCSI-3 HSG80-TOP>sho this_controller scsi_version ^ Command syntax error at or near here I noted that when I did a SHOW ELEVATION_INFO it said ... DISK10200 disk 1 2 0 SEAGATE ST373405LC 0003 Switches: NOTRANSPORTABLE TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED =3D 20MHZ (synchronous 20.00 MHZ = negotiated) Size: 143339723 blocks which I presume is SCSI-2. these are U160 drives so should I set it = SCSI-3? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:57:48 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: <52f9jhF1nrj7qU1@mid.individual.net> Tom Linden wrote: > Have an HSG80 with 4 shelves. A number of the 18GB drives had gone bad > so I decided to upgrade to 74GB drives. I inserted all the new drives and > one turned up with the amber light on indicating possibly a bad drive in > position 5,0 (port, target) > > I swapped with another drive and the new drive in 5,0 now had the amber > light > on indicating maybe a backplane problem. Anybody experience this? If the amber light is on, the drive (or the slot) is bad (sort of repeating what you already know...). I don't really have any other suggestions. [...] > Also how do you see what the current scsi_version is set to? > > HSG80-TOP>set this_controller scsi_version=? > Your options are: > SCSI-2 > SCSI-3 > HSG80-TOP>sho this_controller scsi_version Do just a SHOW THIS. The SCSI version will be listed in the output. > I noted that when I did a SHOW ELEVATION_INFO it said Aside: I've never seen SHOW ELEVATION_INFO! :-) What does it give? Below looks like the output of SHOW DISK FULL or similar. > ... > DISK10200 disk 1 2 0 > SEAGATE ST373405LC 0003 > Switches: > NOTRANSPORTABLE > TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED = 20MHZ (synchronous 20.00 MHZ > negotiated) > Size: 143339723 blocks > which I presume is SCSI-2. these are U160 drives so should I set it > SCSI-3? Definitely put the HSG-80 in SCSI-3 mode. It will negotiate down to SCSI-2 if needed. Regards, Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:11:24 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:57:48 -0800, Ken Fairfield = wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> Have an HSG80 with 4 shelves. A number of the 18GB drives had gone b= ad >> so I decided to upgrade to 74GB drives. I inserted all the new drive= s = >> and >> one turned up with the amber light on indicating possibly a bad driv= e = >> in >> position 5,0 (port, target) >> I swapped with another drive and the new drive in 5,0 now had the = >> amber light >> on indicating maybe a backplane problem. Anybody experience this? > > If the amber light is on, the drive (or the slot) is bad (sort > of repeating what you already know...). I don't really have any > other suggestions. > > [...] >> Also how do you see what the current scsi_version is set to? >> HSG80-TOP>set this_controller scsi_version=3D? >> Your options are: >> SCSI-2 >> SCSI-3 >> HSG80-TOP>sho this_controller scsi_version > > Do just a SHOW THIS. The SCSI version will be listed in the output. > > >> I noted that when I did a SHOW ELEVATION_INFO it said > > Aside: I've never seen SHOW ELEVATION_INFO! :-) What does it give? > Below looks like the output of SHOW DISK FULL or similar. > >> ... >> DISK10200 disk 1 2 0 >> SEAGATE ST373405LC 0003 >> Switches: >> NOTRANSPORTABLE >> TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED =3D 20MHZ (synchronous 20.00 MHZ = >> negotiated) >> Size: 143339723 blocks >> which I presume is SCSI-2. these are U160 drives so should I set it= = >> SCSI-3? > > Definitely put the HSG-80 in SCSI-3 mode. It will negotiate down to > SCSI-2 if needed. Well it apparently didn't change anything HSG80-TOP>set this_controller SCSI_VERSION =3D SCSI-3 HSG80-TOP>set other_controller SCSI_VERSION =3D SCSI-3 HSG80-TOP>sho disk full Name Type Port Targ Lun Used by ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ DISK10000 disk 1 0 0 SEAGATE ST373405LC 0003 Switches: NOTRANSPORTABLE TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED =3D 20MHZ (synchronous 20.00 MHZ = negotiated) Size: 143339723 blocks Still haven't figured out if there is a way to display SCSI_VERSION, it = = doesn't show up with SHOW THIS FULL > > Regards, Ken -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:15:02 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: <52fe47F1odf6bU1@mid.individual.net> Tom Linden wrote: [...] > Still haven't figured out if there is a way to display SCSI_VERSION, it > doesn't > show up with SHOW THIS FULL Apologies, I don't have ready access to an HSG at the moment. I'm sure I've seen the SCSI version is some output we captured... What version of HSOF are you running? The last released was V8.8F-3 IIRC. -Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:29:26 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:15:02 -0800, Ken Fairfield = wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: > [...] >> Still haven't figured out if there is a way to display SCSI_VERSION, = it = >> doesn't >> show up with SHOW THIS FULL > > Apologies, I don't have ready access to an HSG at the moment. > I'm sure I've seen the SCSI version is some output we captured... > What version of HSOF are you running? The last released was > V8.8F-3 IIRC. > > -Ken No, my apologies, it was there I just didn't see it in the output. HSG80-TOP>sho this Controller: HSG80 ZG03506855 Software V88F-4, Hardware E05 NODE_ID =3D 5000-1FE1-0005-6E00 ALLOCATION_CLASS =3D 0 SCSI_VERSION =3D SCSI-3 so the 20MHz is likely a limitation of the HSG80 itself? DISK60300 disk 6 3 0 SEAGATE ST373405LC 0003 Switches: NOTRANSPORTABLE TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED =3D 20MHZ (synchronous 20.00 MHZ = negotiated) Size: 143339723 blocks I do not see any set command for TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED. Now, it does = = say switches so maybe ... must go dig in the documentation if i can find it. -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:21:33 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: <52fi10F1of63nU1@mid.individual.net> Tom Linden wrote: > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:15:02 -0800, Ken Fairfield > wrote: > >> Tom Linden wrote: >> [...] >>> Still haven't figured out if there is a way to display SCSI_VERSION, >>> it doesn't >>> show up with SHOW THIS FULL >> >> Apologies, I don't have ready access to an HSG at the moment. >> I'm sure I've seen the SCSI version is some output we captured... >> What version of HSOF are you running? The last released was >> V8.8F-3 IIRC. >> >> -Ken > No, my apologies, it was there I just didn't see it in the output. > HSG80-TOP>sho this > Controller: > HSG80 ZG03506855 Software V88F-4, Hardware E05 > NODE_ID = 5000-1FE1-0005-6E00 > ALLOCATION_CLASS = 0 > SCSI_VERSION = SCSI-3 > > so the 20MHz is likely a limitation of the HSG80 itself? Yes, the HSG-80 is the limit... > DISK60300 disk 6 3 0 > SEAGATE ST373405LC 0003 > Switches: > NOTRANSPORTABLE > TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED = 20MHZ (synchronous 20.00 MHZ > negotiated) > Size: 143339723 blocks > At one point, we expanded our storage from RA8000/36GB blue-brick drives to 146GB drives in EMA12000's, all in HBVS shadow sets. Some of the data sets easily fit in the 146GB drives where they had been in (host based) stripe sets before. I noticed that these particular volumes were showing large average I/O queues (> 1.0) so I arranged to replace the 146GB 10K RPM drives with 146GB 15K RPM drives. This did NOT improve the performance, much to my surprise. The problem is that the HSG-80 can't take advantage of the faster drives. (I should have striped and partitioned the volumes instead to get better performance.) Regards, Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 18:40:40 -0800 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: <1170384040.612073.236720@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> On Feb 1, 7:29 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:15:02 -0800, Ken Fairfield > > wrote: > > Tom Linden wrote: > > [...] > >> Still haven't figured out if there is a way to display SCSI_VERSION, it > >> doesn't > >> show up with SHOW THIS FULL > > > Apologies, I don't have ready access to an HSG at the moment. > > I'm sure I've seen the SCSI version is some output we captured... > > What version of HSOF are you running? The last released was > > V8.8F-3 IIRC. > > > -Ken > > No, my apologies, it was there I just didn't see it in the output. > HSG80-TOP>sho this > Controller: > HSG80 ZG03506855 Software V88F-4, Hardware E05 > NODE_ID = 5000-1FE1-0005-6E00 > ALLOCATION_CLASS = 0 > SCSI_VERSION = SCSI-3 > > so the 20MHz is likely a limitation of the HSG80 itself? Yep. You have several choices, but 20MHz is tops for an HSG80. It's limited by the SCSI on the controller, not the drives. > > DISK60300 disk 6 3 0 > SEAGATE ST373405LC 0003 > Switches: > NOTRANSPORTABLE > TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED = 20MHZ (synchronous 20.00 MHZ > negotiated) > Size: 143339723 blocks > > I do not see any set command for TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED. Now, it does > say switches > so maybe ... must go dig in the documentation if i can find it. > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/ Transfer rate is settable somewhere. My HSG's are shut down right now so I can't check, but it's possibly in the SET DISK switches. But again, 20MHz is as high as it goes for any HSG80. If you want faster you have to step up to an EVA (HSV1xx) storage unit. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:52:15 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:40:40 -0800, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com = wrote: > On Feb 1, 7:29 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: >> On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 16:15:02 -0800, Ken Fairfield >> >> wrote: >> > Tom Linden wrote: >> > [...] >> >> Still haven't figured out if there is a way to display SCSI_VERSIO= N, = >> it >> >> doesn't >> >> show up with SHOW THIS FULL >> >> > Apologies, I don't have ready access to an HSG at the moment. >> > I'm sure I've seen the SCSI version is some output we captured... >> > What version of HSOF are you running? The last released was >> > V8.8F-3 IIRC. >> >> > -Ken >> >> No, my apologies, it was there I just didn't see it in the output. >> HSG80-TOP>sho this >> Controller: >> HSG80 ZG03506855 Software V88F-4, Hardware E05 >> NODE_ID =3D 5000-1FE1-0005-6E00 >> ALLOCATION_CLASS =3D 0 >> SCSI_VERSION =3D SCSI-3 >> >> so the 20MHz is likely a limitation of the HSG80 itself? > > Yep. You have several choices, but 20MHz is tops for an HSG80. It's > limited by the SCSI on the controller, not the drives. > >> >> DISK60300 disk 6 3 0 >> SEAGATE ST373405LC 0003 >> Switches: >> NOTRANSPORTABLE >> TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED =3D 20MHZ (synchronous 20.00 MHZ >> negotiated) >> Size: 143339723 blocks >> >> I do not see any set command for TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED. Now, it do= es >> say switches >> so maybe ... must go dig in the documentation if i can find it. >> -- >> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > Transfer rate is settable somewhere. My HSG's are shut down right now= > so I can't check, but it's possibly in the SET DISK switches. But > again, 20MHz is as high as it goes for any HSG80. If you want faster > you have to step up to an EVA (HSV1xx) storage unit. > Presumably, as Ken mentioned, you could improve the performance by = striping. > -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:54:00 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: <655da$45c24560$cef8887a$22953@TEKSAVVY.COM> Stephen Hoffman wrote: > From direct experience, the Core 2 Duo clients and the Core-based > Xeon 5100 Woodcrest series servers are screamingly fast. Quieter and > cooler, too. Humm... direct experience... Can you get as far as issuing a $DIR command yet ? :-) Not so long ago, there was talk of Intel wanting EFI to become standard on that industry standard architecture. Has there been any movement towards that yet ? Could Windows be packaged to support both ? I take it Vista does not support EFI ? Considering VMS already knows about EFI, if would it make a BIG difference in a porting effort to 64 bit PCs if they were BIOS versus EFI based machines ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 20:27:25 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: <45c291a5$0$7446$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com> "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:655da$45c24560$cef8887a$22953@TEKSAVVY.COM... [...snip...] > > > Humm... direct experience... > > Can you get as far as issuing a $DIR command yet ? :-) > It was only about 18 months ago when Steve Jobs shocked the world and announced that Apple had been running a skunk-works for more than 5 years to allow their OS + applications to run on Pentium chips. I was even more surprised that they were able to keep this work secret for that length of time. Multi-Core and Pentium-E systems are going to rule the world and HP would be wise to be start (if they haven't already) a skunk-works to port OpenVMS to these chips. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 23:50:34 -0500 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> From direct experience, the Core 2 Duo clients and the Core-based >> Xeon 5100 Woodcrest series servers are screamingly fast. Quieter and >> cooler, too. > > > Humm... direct experience... > > Can you get as far as issuing a $DIR command yet ? :-) I do not work for HP, and no one has yet engaged HoffmanLabs to provide a DIRECTORY command or a DCL shell. Were someone interested in same, HL can certainly negotiate for the creation of a DCL emulator. It might well be rather cheaper to port the existing DCL into the target environment, particularly as the discussion expands out from DCL and into the commands and utilities and lexical functions. > Not so long ago, there was talk of Intel wanting EFI to become standard > on that industry standard architecture. Has there been any movement > towards that yet ? Could Windows be packaged to support both ? I take > it Vista does not support EFI ? Microsoft Windows XP and Windows Vista can reportedly be booted on the boxes via VM and via native, but I've not bothered. The boxes are EFI based, and the platform easily suffices for the needs of HoffmanLabs. As for Microsoft Windows Vista and EFI, information and rumors are readily available from various sources. Here is some information on EFI (UEFI) and Windows Vista directly from the Microsoft web site: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/firmware/efibrief.mspx Wander over to Google or your preferred search engine -- some folks here would probably find the www.MsDewey.com search engine entertaining -- and continue the research with a (Google) search string such as: vista uefi site:microsoft.com > Considering VMS already knows about EFI, if would it make a BIG > difference in a porting effort to 64 bit PCs if they were BIOS versus > EFI based machines ? The job of the console is to set up the environment, and to load the bootstrap. It would be easier to port to a box with EFI than with BIOS, but the work involved in this particular area of an operating system port is a rounding error in the context of the effort involved in a porting project for something of the scale of OpenVMS. The work performed for the Itanium port can and would certainly make hypothetical future ports easier, but an operating system port is and will remain very far from trivial. And the console? That's maybe one engineer for a few months. BIOS would be a bit ugly, but there are any number of serviceable loaders already available. The linker and the object language and object code generation, requirements for multiple compilers (OpenVMS I64 started with cross-compilers, and has then moved incrementally toward native compilers), the calling standard, the I/O model and the need for various device drivers, the exception and interrupt handling, the virtual and physical memory management, and porting and testing the primary and secondary layered products and third-party packages? Now that's Real Work. Linux certainly ports expediently if for no other reason than it's been successfully ported a gazillion times. There is still real effort in getting the environment and the compilers for a wholly new platform. Even for Linux. Would I personally like to see OpenVMS on x86-64? Maybe. I already have an entirely serviceable operating system running on the x86-64 hardware I am dealing with. For what the boxes are and will be doing, I would be unlikely to migrate the installations over to this hypothetical OpenVMS on x86-64. Even if OpenVMS were available on x86-64. Do choose and use OpenVMS where it makes sense, and do choose and use other tools and platforms where that makes sense. And strictly for completeness, I (still) know of no plans to port OpenVMS to any other platforms. Per my discussions with HP reps around OpenVMS, the Intel Itanium 2 series is the processor, and Integrity is the platform. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 01:39:49 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: <7503$45c2dcbf$cef8887a$23143@TEKSAVVY.COM> Stephen Hoffman wrote: > I do not work for HP, and no one has yet engaged HoffmanLabs to > provide a DIRECTORY command or a DCL shell. Yeah but... HoffmanLabs' R&D division might have a self funded project to port VMS to industry standard platform. This would not contradict your above statement :-) And once HoffmanLabs announces the existance of this project, your sale of VMS licences would instantly exceed those of HP. > http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/firmware/efibrief.mspx Thank you for the link. So basically, Microsoft is not against UEFI, but isn't going to push for it. In your educated opinion, will Intel/Amd at one point start to "enforce" UEFI for the X86 platform ? Don't Intel/AMD release the motherboard and system interface standards ? Or are the assemblers such as HP and Dell truly in the driver's seat when it comes to decide whether to stick with BIOS or go with UEFI ? > bootstrap. It would be easier to port to a box with EFI than with BIOS, > but the work involved in this particular area of an operating system > port is a rounding error in the context of the effort involved in a > porting project for something of the scale of OpenVMS. Thank you for the reality check. So, in a THEORETICAL scenario where HP would announce this morning that VMS is to be ported to X86, is is fair to state that such a port could go either way with regards to BIOS or EFI ? And now, for the usually small print disclaimer :-) :-) :-) :-) > And strictly for completeness, I (still) know of no plans to port > OpenVMS to any other platforms. (You forgot the statement about forward looking statements etc etc :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:45:52 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Kermit Large File Support Message-ID: <07020113455196_20219436@antinode.org> > http://antinode.org/ftp/kermit/2006-02-25/ > ftp://antinode.org/kermit/2006-02-25/ > > The CKVKER.COM procedure has two new "P2" options: F = large-file > support, and I = internal FTP. (No complaint for "F" on VAX -- lazy.) > [...] > If I get bored, and/or if anyone expresses any interest, I can > probably plop a more current set of changed files onto my server. If desperate for amusement: http://antinode.org/ftp/kermit/2007-02-01/ ftp://antinode.org/kermit/2007-02-01/ Changes since the 2006-02-25 collection: - Based on a 2007-01-29 download of an "under development" C-Kermit 8.0.212 kit from "http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckdaily.html". The apparent date of the "x.zip" archive is "2006/12/20". - More compiler complaint reduction. - CKVKER.MMS should now handle the internal FTP option. - Source dependencies in CKVKER.COM and CKVKER.MMS are actually realistic. I've done very little testing, and no large-file testing (but what could go wrong?). Pathetic, whining (or other) complaints are welcome. If anyone claims that any of this stuff actually works, I could pass it along to Mr. Kermit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 12:14:04 -0800 From: dan.klein@hp.com Subject: Re: OpenVMS success? Message-ID: <1170360844.637291.187150@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> On Feb 1, 12:53 pm, "Doug Phillips" wrote: > In another thread, I posted the following link to the HP success story > page that a person would probably find when starting from the HP home > page (not the OpenVMS home page): > > > > I'm surprised no one commented on it. It speaks volumes about HP's > attitude towards OpenVMS. > > Maybe no one took the time to look? It seems important to me, so here > it is: > > > Integrity Server Solutions > Success stories =BB Operating system > > View by Operating System > > =BB Multi O/S customer successes > =BB HP-UX and 11i customer successes > =BB Linux customer successes > =BB Windows customer successes > =BB OpenVMS customer successes > > Multi O/S customer successes > > =BB Laziomatica (Regione Lazio) (*ss) > =BB Lithuanian Customs (*ss) > =BB Mobiltel (*ss) > =BB Renesas Technology (*ss, PDF, 209 KB) > > HP-UX11i customer successes > > =BB ABB (*ss) > =BB Airbus UK (*ss) > =BB ARDA Hungarian (*ss) > =BB Avtovaz (*ss) > =BB Banco Espirito Santo (*ss) > =BB Bucks County Community College (BCCC) (*ss) > =BB Campana Systems Inc. (*ss) > =BB Capita Insurance Services (CIS) (*ss) > =BB CargoSmart (*ss) > =BB Cheng Loong Corporation (*ss) > =BB Chevron (*ss) > =BB Croatian Post (*ss) > =BB Emmi Schweiz (*ss) > =BB Festo AG & Co. KG (*ss) > =BB General Mills (*ss) > =BB Genfar (*ss) > =BB Harman Pro Group (*ss) > =BB Health Data Management Solutions (*ss) > =BB HTM Sport- & Freizeitgerate AG (*ss) > =BB Hubert Burda Media Group (*ss, *v) > =BB Info AG (*ss) > =BB Intrado (*ss,*v) > =BB Kaeser Kompressoren (*ss) > =BB Lekkerland (*ss) > =BB Lenze AG (*ss) > =BB Litasco (*ss) > =BB Lithuanian Customs (*ss) > =BB Lufthansa Technik Logistik (*ss) > =BB Lyon Highway Monitoring Center (CORALY) (*ss) > =BB Mack Multiples (*ss) > =BB Mitel (*ss) > =BB Metro Health (*ss) > =BB Nordzucker (*ss) > =BB REWE Austria (*ss) > =BB Royal London (*ss) > =BB SAI Global (*ss) > =BB Scottish Life (a division of Royal London) (*ss) > =BB Sedus Stoll (*ss) > =BB State Social Protection Fund of Azerbaijan (*ss) > =BB Taifook Securities Group (*ss, *v) > =BB University of Kentucky (*ss) > =BB University of Magdeburg(*ss) > =BB University of Oslo (*ss) > =BB Vodafone NZ (*ss) > > Linux customer successes > > =BB City Council of Madrid (*ss) > =BB Fiserv (*ss,*v) > =BB Forbes (*ss) > =BB INTA National Institute for Aerospace Technology (Spain)= (*ss) > =BB Municipality of Rome (*ss) > =BB Rice University - Shoah Foundation's Holocaust Testimoni= al > Archive (*ss) > =BB Scientific Supercomputing Center Karlsruhe SSCK (*ss, PD= F, 575 > KB) > =BB SPACI Consortium (*ss, PDF, 216 KB) > =BB University of Troms=F8 (*ss) > =BB Veracomp (*ss) > > Windows customer successes > > =BB AKH Linz (*ss, PDF, 261 KB) > =BB Ameren Corporation (*ss) > =BB aSIS (*ss) > =BB Banca Popolare di Vicenza (*ss) > =BB Cyence International (*ss) > =BB ebm-papst (*ss) > =BB First American Title Insurance Company (*ss) > =BB Groupo Cegasa (*ss) > =BB Indigo Lighthouse (*ss) > =BB JTI (*v) > =BB KCM SA in Bulgaria (*ss, PDF,1.16 MB) > =BB Lithuanian Customs (*ss) > =BB Pechanga Resort and Casino (*ss, *v) > =BB PGGM (*ss) > =BB Pohjola Group (*ss) > =BB Prada (*ss, PDF, 115 KB) > =BB PREMIER Bankcard (*ss) > =BB Raymond James Financial (*ss) > =BB Sao Paulo Stock Exchange-Bovespa (*ss) > =BB Sava Group (*ss) > =BB Sydney Opera House (*ss) > =BB Telefonica S.A. (*ss) > =BB The Koehler Group (*ss) > =BB Upper Austria (*ss) > =BB VTG-LEHNKERING AG (*ss) > > OpenVMS customer successes > > =BB ESME-Sudria (*ss) > > Footnote: > *ss =3D Success story > *nr =3D News release > *ss/nr =3D Success story/News release > *v =3D video > > > > Odd, I see quite a few government agencies, financial institutions and > other "sensitive" customer types on those lists. Some very well know > names are there, too. > > Obviously, HP customers aren't afraid to let the world know about > their successful use of HP-UX, Windows and even Linux. OpenVMS only > has one listed. Even the OpenVMS home page only has links to six (the > above included). Success in the OpenVMS world is rare, it seems. > > Read the Multi O/S customer successes and find phrases like "the > ability to integrate > HP-UX and Windows" and draw your own conclusion about the importance > of Windows in the business world. People who'd rather stick their > heads in the sand and ignore that nasty old microsloth stuff likely > still won't "get it". > > A few years ago I might have been able to provide some OpenVMS success > stories, if anyone had cared enough to ask, but today those stories > have mostly lost their "integrity". Oh, and if HP doesn't know who to > ask, then that also speaks volumes. Customer don't usually approach > vendors on matters such as this. > > Just in case there are a few more than six OpenVMS successes, here's a > free hint for anyone at HP who might care (posed as questions): > > - Which HP employees know the most about HP customers within their > geographic area? > - Anyone ever ask them about OpenVMS customer successes? > - Do you think they might know which person at a company could talk > to HP about it? > > If that avenue has already been exhausted, I guess there just aren't > any more OpenVMS successes worth talking about. We are in the process of developing a number of stories that will be posted. In the mean time take a look at this. It is brand new. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/saturn ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 13:57:45 -0800 From: "Doug Phillips" Subject: Re: OpenVMS success? Message-ID: <1170367065.328608.44580@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> On Feb 1, 2:14 pm, dan.kl...@hp.com wrote: > On Feb 1, 12:53 pm, "Doug Phillips" wrote: > > > > In another thread, I posted the following link to the HP success story > > page that a person would probably find when starting from the HP home > > page (not the OpenVMS home page): > > > > > > I'm surprised no one commented on it. It speaks volumes about HP's > > attitude towards OpenVMS. > > > Maybe no one took the time to look? It seems important to me, so here > > it is: > > > > > Integrity Server Solutions > > Success stories =BB Operating system > > > View by Operating System > > > =BB Multi O/S customer successes > > =BB HP-UX and 11i customer successes > > =BB Linux customer successes > > =BB Windows customer successes > > =BB OpenVMS customer successes > > > Multi O/S customer successes > [snipped 4 ssuccesses] > > > HP-UX11i customer successes > [snipped 44 successes] > > > Linux customer successes > [snipped 10 successes] > > > Windows customer successes > [snipped 25 successes] > > > OpenVMS customer successes > > > =BB ESME-Sudria (*ss) > [nothing snipped. that's it] > > > > [snipped my commentary] > > We are in the process of developing a number of stories that will be > posted. In the mean time take a look at this. It is brand new. > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/saturn That's the one that Sue recently posted, and her post prompted me to look for other success stories. Let's role play: =3D=3D Your organization foresees an enterprise class need. You don't really have a bias for or against any vendor. During your quest for knowlege, you visit . You select and surf around those links. You read some items that interest you, and eventually select . From what you've learned so far, seems to be the right product so you click it. Down on the right under Solutions and Information, you notice and click on . After reading a few, you notice the and click in it. You scroll through Multi O/S, HP-UX, Linux and Windows and... Hmm. OpenVMS? No wonder you've never heard of it. =3D=3D Maybe that scene has never played out in the real world, but then maybe it has. If VMS has more success stories, why aren't they on the HP Success story page? Why bury them on the choir page? Is the VMS group that isolated from the rest of HP? The HP-UX, Linux and Windows groups seem to have some publishing success; what are they doing differently? Is anyone talking to Field Service (oops. gave away the answer) -- you know, the folks who know the customer base better than anyone? ---- -Doug "We're VMS. We don't need no stinkin' marketing." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 21:43:15 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OpenVMS success? Message-ID: <45C2B353.D5B972F9@spam.comcast.net> dan.klein@hp.com wrote: > [snip] > We are in the process of developing a number of stories that will be > posted. In the mean time take a look at this. It is brand new. > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/saturn Dan, With respect: this needs to get into the mainstream trade media. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 02:49:16 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: Purveyor CGI mailbox capacity [bit long winded] Message-ID: In article <1170354927.082284.235380@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > Mark, I just found a problem message that displayed a "/HTML" on the > end of the message, but when I redisplayed the message under yahmail > with the mime button on the bottom, it displayed fine, so something > changed with soymail as to break it as yahmail works fine ... > > just go back and put in the old yahmail logic for redisplayed the html > page ... A quick question Bob. Are you paying Mark for his efforts? -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 18:49:22 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" Subject: Re: You gotta see this ! Message-ID: Please tell me that is NOT Bill Gates on the bottom left !?!?! He looks like an anorexic bush-baby! :0) "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote in message news:epr2oe$m0j$1@online.de... > In article <12s232ttf1gil39@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers, D B > Turner" writes: > >> http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4915875929930836239&q=windows+386&b3ta >> >> It's about a 12 minute Windows Promo video from the 80's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Speaking of which: > > http://www.astro.multivax.de:8000/helbig/gifs/microsoft.jpg > > (This is a real, undoctored photograph.) > ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.065 ************************