INFO-VAX Thu, 22 Feb 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 106 Contents: Re: A CEO agrees with me: Marketing! Re: A CEO agrees with me: Marketing! Re: Adding pre/post escape sequences to a "SAY" Re: Canadian OpenVMS Seminar (07.02.20) Re: Canadian OpenVMS Seminar (07.02.20) Re: Canadian OpenVMS Seminar (07.02.20) DEC Ada V3.5-1 on VAX Re: DEC Ada V3.5-1 on VAX Re: DEC Ada V3.5-1 on VAX Re: EVE defined key problem. Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Re: OpenVMS 6.2 debugger - show calls question Re: OT: How bad software planning costed Airbus $6 billion Re: OT: How bad software planning costed Airbus $6 billion Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Re: Outputting Variables from C Language Re: Quebec Health Care Virus Terry Shannon article nominated for Wikipedia deletion Re: Terry Shannon article nominated for Wikipedia deletion Re: VT320 or 420 keypad codes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:41:57 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: A CEO agrees with me: Marketing! Message-ID: In article <00A639DD.F85718F7@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <45DCFA3F.3D15CF61@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: > > > > > >Seems I'm not the only one saying it. > > > >In an article on Reuters about Kraft Foods, a U.S. company, the CEO of Kraft > >is > >quoted as saying (about Kraft), "... the company needs to spend more on > >marketing and develop new products that go beyond extensions of existing > >lines". > > > >Maybe I'm not crazy after all. > > So Kraft Foods should buy OpenVMS! Fortunately OpenVMS Engineering foresaw the need to combine eating and using VMS at the same time. "Sticky keys": http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73FINAL/6470/6470pro_002.html#sticky_keys -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:25:25 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: A CEO agrees with me: Marketing! Message-ID: In article <00A639DD.F85718F7@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > So Kraft Foods should buy OpenVMS! You want an OS that tastes like Velveeta? ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 02:37:35 -0800 From: "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: Adding pre/post escape sequences to a "SAY" Message-ID: <1172140655.555587.296490@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "David J Dachtera" wrote in message news: 45DCFB11.4B16F575@spam.comcast.net... > "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" wrote: >> >> On Feb 20, 10:20 pm, David J Dachtera >> wrote: >> > JF Mezei wrote: >> > >> How about: >> >> $ bel[0,8] == 7 >> $ esc[0,8] == 27 >> $ say :== write sys$output >> $ say esc,"[2J",esc,"[1;1H","hello there" > > Refresh me. I recongize 1;1H as "home the cursor", but is not 2J > "clear from the cursor to the end of the screen? (potentially brash assumption) > > -- > David J Dachtera Here's an excerpt from a "BASIC include" used in my VAX days. (way back when we did it this way in order to squeeze a little more performance out of our VAX-11/750 machines). So it looks like "2J" clears the whole screen no matter where the cursor is sitting. #################### ! ! line erasing (page 26, 'VT220 Programmer Pocket Guide') ! declare string constant & VT$ClearEOL = VT$Pfx+'0K' , ! to End & VT$ClearBOL = VT$Pfx+'1K' , ! to Beginning & VT$ClearLine = VT$Pfx+'2K' ! whole ! ! screen erasing (page 26, 'VT220 Programmer Pocket Guide') ! declare string constant & VT$ClearEOS = VT$Pfx+'0J' , ! to End & VT$ClearBOS = VT$Pfx+'1J' , ! to Beginning & VT$Clear = VT$Pfx+'2J' ! whole #################### People wishing to download this file should click the following URL: http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/demo_vms/device_controls.zip Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 03:13:25 -0800 From: "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: Canadian OpenVMS Seminar (07.02.20) Message-ID: <1172142805.712622.318970@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> On Feb 21, 7:02 am, "John Wallace" wrote: > wrote in message > [...snip...] > > Glad you had a good day. But... > > Does a claim become believed these days simply because it's repeated often > enough, or do sensible folks need actual evidence? I've heard this "missing > RAS features" assertion for years. Over the years, I've listened carefully > for any actual evidence. I've not yet seen or heard any such evidence; this > post is a plea for real concrete documented evidence. So far, I see more > evidence that the insistence on Itanium is down to (hidden) commercial > factors rather than real documented technical factors, which is of course a > perfectly valid way of doing business (it may look strange from outside but > we can't see the details of the back-room dealings). > > I don't do system level design myself, but I have spent many years helping > other folks find out why their kit is behaving unexpectedly, looking at > everything from timing diagrams to debugger listings and source code and... > I understand the difference between features in an architecture (if it's > missing from the architecture, you're likely stuffed), and (mis)features in > an implementation (lots of PC-class stuff ships if it mostly appears to > work, never mind the spec). I've read and mostly understood the AMD64 > architecture docs and the Opteron chip docs available from AMD. Before that, > I'd read and mostly understood, and worked with, the equivalent Alpha stuff > (architectures, chips, implementations) and other related stuff (other > people's chipset docs, for example). > > Since the OpenVMS on AMD64 discussions started, I've looked carefully for > important RAS things that couldn't architecturally be done on an AMD64 > implementation that could be (and were) done on an Alpha implementation (I'm > not familiar with Itanium at this level). I've not yet spotted any important > capabilities missing from AMD64 so maybe I've been looking in the wrong > place. I'd welcome pointers to real examples. I'm not interested in examples > of broken consumer-class chipsets etc (eg similar to the broken IDE problem > in the early PWS/Alpha systems, and goodness knows what problems in current > consumer-class PC chipsets) - these are typically not unfixable > architectural issues, they are more likely to be implementation errors which > could be fixed given sufficient commercial motivation (which usually doesn't > exist in SoHo PCland). > > Although the commercial motivation to run "BSOD free" doesn't usually exist > in SoHo PCland, lots of folk are happy to run Proliant-class systems with > AMD64 at their heart, at various price points and various levels of > business-criticalness, and Proliant owners aren't famous for liking BSODs. > Which specific RAS features are those AMD64 boxes missing which are present > in Itanium-based systems ? I realise this may be rather more detail than the > typical HP audience needs, but if HP don't have this level of detail in a > white paper or whatever, perhaps because it would understandably be > unpopular with the Proliant folks, maybe Dell or someone else do (most > companies other than HP/Intel have no reason to be involved in secret > Itanium-related back-room dealings). > > Regards > John > You are preaching to the choir. I was just passing on some information from the seminar. Anyone with access to my bank book will know that "I'm no financial genius". That said, I think HP is making a big mistake by not porting OpenVMS to x86-64 no matter how they describe their view of Itanium. (failure to do this will go down in human history with stories like the "Tortoise and the Hare"; while HPQ slept with visons of an Itanium rabbit they ignored the fact that x86 was evolving from a tortoise to a rabbit) For an Itanium reality-check, click the next link then read the external articles associated with links at the bottom of the page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itanium Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 06:43:15 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Canadian OpenVMS Seminar (07.02.20) Message-ID: n.rieck@sympatico.ca wrote: > Photo From the Canadian OpenVMS Seminar (07.02.20) > > http://www.encompasscanada.com/ There are more pictures to be published. Some which will please Dave Froble to no end.... Stay tuned ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 05:48:01 -0800 From: "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: Canadian OpenVMS Seminar (07.02.20) Message-ID: <1172152081.623208.254700@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com> On Feb 22, 8:07 am, Paul Sture wrote: > In article , > JF Mezei wrote: > [...snip...] > > What? You getting hit over the head with blunt objects? > > I can't wait to see :-) > > -- > Paul Sture No but one picture coming is a photo of Sue wrapping JF in duc tape (It's a Canadian thing). BTW, the group photo on the top of this page... http://www.encompasscanada.com/ ...looks rather small. I should mention that these people are the ones who stayed until 17:30 that day. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:55:52 -0000 From: "Tim Jackson" Subject: DEC Ada V3.5-1 on VAX Message-ID: <45dd5763$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net> We are trying to source an installation kit (and documentation) for DEC Ada V3.5-1 on VAX. It doesn't have to be on CD or tape, electronic emailed copies would be okay. Initial investigations indicate this would have been released in 1999 although we are not 100% sure on that. Can anyone help or have any suggestions? TIA. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:11:06 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: DEC Ada V3.5-1 on VAX Message-ID: In article <45dd5763$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>, "Tim Jackson" writes: > We are trying to source an installation kit (and documentation) for DEC Ada > V3.5-1 on VAX. It doesn't have to be on CD or tape, electronic emailed > copies would be okay. Initial investigations indicate this would have been > released in 1999 although we are not 100% sure on that. Can anyone help or > have any suggestions? As I recall there is a V3.5A (not -1) on Alpha to cover the change to EV7 (or was it EV6 ?). Are you sure there is one for VAX ? The latest VAX kit _should_ be on the current VAX Consolidated Distribution. Or are you talking about a patch kit ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:43:37 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: DEC Ada V3.5-1 on VAX Message-ID: <45DD65C9.7513.34062E1@squayle.insight.rr.com> On 22 Feb 2007 at 8:55, at wrote: > We are trying to source an installation kit (and documentation) for DEC Ada > V3.5-1 on VAX. It doesn't have to be on CD or tape, electronic emailed > copies would be okay. Initial investigations indicate this would have been > released in 1999 although we are not 100% sure on that. Can anyone help or > have any suggestions? I have the kit for "Compaq Ada Version 3.5A for OpenVMS VAX Systems". No trace of a "-1". --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 02:15:49 -0800 From: "Fatz" Subject: Re: EVE defined key problem. Message-ID: <1172139349.257660.62910@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com> Rob says: > What happens when you press KP2 at the DCL prompt? Nothing. Tried with both set term/applic and /numeric. Pressing num lock has the same effect as pressing return at the DCL prompt in both cases. > Try: > > Command: DEFINE > > enter TWO as the EVE command > then press the actual key you want defined. > > This will map the command to whatever key you have pressed, no matter what > your emulator is doing. Ok well that works but how can I replicate the underlying actions in an ini/command file? I'd rather avoid using a section file if possible. $ EDIT/TPU/INIT=EVE.INI ! EVE.INI DEFINE KEY=KP2 SPLIT > define_key (eve$$kt_return + "eve_two_windows", KP2, > "Split window"); I put this in EVE.INI and got the same behaviour. I put this in CMD.TPU and did EDIT/TPU/COMMAND=CMD.TPU and got the same behaviour. I defined TPU$COMMAND to CMD.TPU and tried again - same behaviour. As you'd expect, SHOW KEY KP2 displays "Split window" in all cases. And now some experimentation has revealed that pressing SHIFT with the key gives me the defined key action. I can change the definitions in eXceed but that means redefining all the keypad keys and reversing their shifted and unshifted behaviour. I can't find another way of globally reversing this for the keypad. Does anyone here know of a less laborious way of getting what I want (apart from going back to using a VT320 ;-)). Cheers, Fatz. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 03:25:25 -0800 From: "Camiel" Subject: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Message-ID: <1172143525.297588.189480@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Hi, I'm running into a problem with an emulator for the ES40 that I'm working on. I get the following error: jumping to bootstrap code %APB-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYSBOOT.EXE %APB-I-LOADFAIL, Failed to load secondary bootstrap, status = 00000910 I'm trying to boot from an emulated IDE disk (not CD-ROM) because emulating a simple IDE disk is a lot more straightforward than emulating a SCSI-controller + disk. Now, I want to know whether this should work (which means that there's a bug I need to find), or whether I should use my time to implement SCSI emulation. So here's my question: Is a real ES40 able to boot OpenVMS from an IDE (ATA) disk? Has anyone ever tried this? Please let me know if you have. Thanks, Camiel Vanderhoeven http://www.camicom.com/es40 http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/es40 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:45:10 +0000 From: Tom Wade Subject: Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Message-ID: > Is a real ES40 able to boot OpenVMS from an IDE (ATA) disk? Has anyone > ever tried this? Please let me know if you have. Yes. We have booted an ES40 from an internal Maxtor 51024U2 on an IDE bus. IDE disks show up as DQxx devices (OpenVMS 7.3-1). --------------------------------------------------------- Tom Wade | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie EuroKom | Tel: +353 (1) 296-9696 A2, Nutgrove Office Park | Fax: +353 (1) 296-9697 Rathfarnham | Disclaimer: This is not a disclaimer Dublin 14 | Tip: "Friends don't let friends do Unix !" Ireland ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:27:07 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Message-ID: In article <1172143525.297588.189480@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Camiel" writes: > > jumping to bootstrap code > %APB-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYSBOOT.EXE > %APB-I-LOADFAIL, Failed to load secondary bootstrap, status = 00000910 > %SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE Does the OS version you're trying this with support the processor you're emulating? ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 10:43:41 -0800 From: "Camiel" Subject: Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Message-ID: <1172169821.568598.89840@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Feb 22, 5:10 pm, dav...@montagar.com wrote: > On Feb 22, 5:25 am, "Camiel" wrote: > > > Hi, > > > I'm running into a problem with an emulator for the ES40 that I'm > > working on. I get the following error: > > > jumping to bootstrap code > > %APB-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYSBOOT.EXE > > %APB-I-LOADFAIL, Failed to load secondary bootstrap, status = 00000910 > > Booting from an IDE disk should work fine. The error you are getting > is a "file not found", so I would guess that the boot block does not > properly identify the location of SYSBOOT.EXE. You will need to mount > your disk on another OpenVMS system and run WRITEBOOT.EXE in order to > update the boot block with the correct location of SYSBOOT.EXE. Yes it does. I'm trying to run OpenVMS 8.3 (installation CD image on an emulated hard-disk) on an emulated ES40 (EV68). Camiel. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:16:36 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OpenVMS 6.2 debugger - show calls question Message-ID: <8picF3GfOws2@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1172071346.051494.234390@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, "Charlie" writes: > Dusting off my vms debugger knowledge from a long ways back.... > > I'm getting an access violation when debugging some code, no real > rocket science there :). So, the debugger breaks and I can do a show > calls to display the trail of destruction. Something way back in my > head seems to recall that I can go up the call stack to check > variables, etc. Yes? Been through the doc and help, and I don't see > it... but I could swear I used to do this..... > You can examine any variable at any time, unless it is a stack variable that doesn't exist at that time (not a problem here). examine module-name\routine-name\variable You can also change modules which the above defaults to by using "set scope". And you only need enough of the above to be unique. Often this means you can just "examine variable" after doing a "set scope". ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:22:42 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: How bad software planning costed Airbus $6 billion Message-ID: <+3$4nPi5VR7v@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , JF Mezei writes: > > Read the above article and think about it. Nowadays, with disparate > systems, disparate vendors and nt so compatible solutions, how much is your > company losing because of IT problems ? The money being lost isn't coming from inter-operability issues. All those copies of MSOffice on WXP actually can talk to each other. The money being lost is due to security holes, MSOffice bugs, ... ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 15:09:25 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT: How bad software planning costed Airbus $6 billion Message-ID: <545q15F1uovc3U1@mid.individual.net> In article <+3$4nPi5VR7v@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , JF Mezei writes: >> >> Read the above article and think about it. Nowadays, with disparate >> systems, disparate vendors and nt so compatible solutions, how much is your >> company losing because of IT problems ? > > The money being lost isn't coming from inter-operability issues. > All those copies of MSOffice on WXP actually can talk to each other. > The money being lost is due to security holes, MSOffice bugs, ... Not in the Airbus case. Airbus's problem was caused by some plants upgrading the CAD/CAM software while others didn't. The older and newer versions of the same companies product were incompatable and caused massive problems with the exchange of data, some of which required re-wiring entire airframes(IIRC). I think The Risks Digest had some good covrerage of this at the time it happened. Nothing to do with MS, in this case. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:18:34 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Message-ID: In article <1172105406.267418.31770@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: > > anyone who signs a contract longer than 1 year with any other > os than vms is plain stupid ... Oh, I'm not so sure. IBM has some prety good mainframe OS that will be around for longer than a year. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:04:20 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Outputting Variables from C Language Message-ID: In article <1172010651.358917.125580@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>, raggden@gmail.com writes: > I wrote this DCL script to execute some calculations however I need to > do decimal math so I need to introduce a C script into the DCL > commands. I can pass the variables from DCL to the C script using argc > and argv but can't figure out how to pass certain variables (values) > back to the DCL script environment. I have three values I need to pass > back out so that the DCL script can continue. How does one do this? I > assume I use the "return" command in C but then how does DCL interpret > that and store those values to variables? return from main(), or the argument to exit(), will set $STATUS, and DCL will then issue a message if $STATUS is an even number, and follow any "on" commands for processing the warning/error/sever-error. This is probably not what you want. > > DCL ----- (Passes Values) ---> C (Does Decimal Math) -----(Need to > pass new values back???)---> DCL > Check out lib$set_symbol for setting your own DCL symbols. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:19:47 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Quebec Health Care Virus Message-ID: In article <45dcaef4$0$10300$815e3792@news.qwest.net>, "Michael D. Ober" writes: > When Win95 and 98 were new, viruii were rare. I know a lot of things are differenet in Quebec from the rest of North America. But I don't think the above was true anywhere on the planet. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 08:09:26 -0800 From: "Ian Miller" Subject: Terry Shannon article nominated for Wikipedia deletion Message-ID: <1172160566.481341.313280@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Shannon This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy. You may share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Terry_Shannon I think there are people here who would disagree. Go to the above page and let them know. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 2007 09:52:40 -0800 From: "DaveG" Subject: Re: Terry Shannon article nominated for Wikipedia deletion Message-ID: <1172166760.522185.225450@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> On Feb 22, 10:09 am, "Ian Miller" wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Shannon > > This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with > Wikipedia's deletion policy. > You may share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on > the Articles for deletion page. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Terry_Sh... > > I think there are people here who would disagree. Go to the above page > and let them know. Thanks for posting this Ian. Terry made a difference to many of us and to the industry we toil in. Dave... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:37:45 -0000 From: Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: VT320 or 420 keypad codes Message-ID: <12tralp1b9kg97f@corp.supernews.com> roland@logikalsolutions.com wrote: > Konsole handles the cutting and pasting correctly. There are some > escape sequences it doesn't handle currently, yet it tosses up most > FMS forms for me. It also handles the dynamic screen resizing > correctly. If I can get the keyboard mapped, I'll look into how much > effort it is to modify the source code to handle the balance of the > escape sequences correctly. There are several ways to interpret that remark; presumably the KDE developers will appreciate your expert advice. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.106 ************************