INFO-VAX Fri, 16 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 150 Contents: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AXP 150 available and probably cheap Re: Biofules was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: Boot camp registration update week ending March 16 Re: Excursion Question Re: Excursion Question Re: Excursion Question Re: Excursion Question Re: Excursion Question Re: Guy Peleg's Brussels Presentation RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Re: OT: charges dropped against Patrica Dunn Re: Power Consumption Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 09:23:39 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: In article <45FA04DF.A69E5D6F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >> In article <45F88DDC.8CEC5D6D@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >> >> >> In article <45F74C0E.82DC5477@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >> >> >Bob Koehler wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> In article <55mc3uF25ogesU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars >> >> >> with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to >> >> >> aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. >> >> > >> >> >The probability of that is close to nil. Climate change on that scale takes >> >> >hundreds of generations, many centuries even, without cosmic intervention. >> >> > >> >> If the methane hydrates were destabalised the effect would be pretty rapid. >> >> Methane is about 60 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than CO2 but would >> >> only remain in the atmosphere for about 10 years whereas CO2 remains in the >> >> atmosphere for about 100 years. >> >> Methane hydrates occur extensively all over the world and frozen methane >> >> hydrates can contain 170 times their own volume of methane. >> >> >> >> see >> >> >> >> http://www.hydrogen.co.uk/h2_now/journal/articles/3_Methane.htm >> > >> >Nothing new. >> > >> >Neither is climatic change. It's going to happen. Would have happened even if >> >humans had not evolved or developed mechanized industry. >> > >> >It will run its course. This is inevitable and inescapable. >> > >> >Let's all just get over it and get back to business providing for our families. >> > >> If it happens then it is highly unlikely that most of humanity would be able to >> get back to the business of providing for their families. > >That's like trying to plan for a nulcear holocaust, or volcanic obliteration. > You mean like Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaties Nuclear test bans Strategic Arms Limitation Talks Hotlines between America and Russia etc David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >Deal with it when/if it happens. For now, get over it. > >-- >David J Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page >http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 04:38:07 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174045087.811772.57990@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 15, 10:13 pm, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:1173959513.942059.98020@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > On Mar 14, 9:09 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > >> wrote in message > > [...snip...] > > > wrong again! You don't get along with the world, you are to be the > > salt of the earth ... you are to set an example for these people ... > > you are to be not of this world ... > > > there was an interesting article about how light is slowing down > > and that at the universe beginning it and time may have been > > accelerated, so your so-called 6 billion years might have happened > > in a thousand years time ... so 6000 years today might have > > been 6 billion years early on ... > > what a load of crap... > > > > > I will trust God on these matters since He wrote the Bible ... > > science knows NOTHING about the universe, they can't even > > figure out things here yet ... > > Like I said before, I am a practicing Christian (Lutheran) but do not > believe that the bible is literally true. The bible was written by > inspired > people who were doing the best they could with the information > available at > the time. Most people are born into (rather than choosing) these > dogmatic > philosophies. Other crafty people use them to manipulate us into going > to > war, killing fags, etc. > > Religion made 100% perfect sense as a child but some parts are now > suspect > as an adult: for example, God is all powerful (created the universe > etc.) > but some guy now says that God told him to tell "me" to be part of a > holy > war. What a load of crap... well you are not a Christian if you do not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God ... the only person using the Bible to promote murder is the devil ... sometimes wars are justified, just read the old testament ... the message of the Bible is very clear ... the question is will you do Gods will or your own ... sounds like you need to get to church and get into a good Bible study class or talk to your pastor ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:17:30 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45fa8ad8$0$177$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > Andrew wrote: >> Of course most environmental scientists now think that Kyoto is to >> little too late hence the EU's unilateral agreement to implement more >> stringent targets than required by Kyoto. > > Refusing to sign Kyoto today because you feel it isn't enough is like > refusing to buy a PC today because you know that in a couple of months, > they'll release a newer, faster PC. > > Kyoto provides a framework that allows countries to start acting > today. And *ANY* reduction (or slowed growth) delays the sigificantly > negative impacts such as flooding of manhattan by many years. > > It is a bit like a huge asteroid on a collision course with earth. > The sooner you can start to change it course, the less you need to nudge > ot so > it will avoid earth. > > Kyoto has also provided a focus/metric to measure performance. > Canada's actual performance has been dismal for instance (mostly > because of the oil sands processing in Alberta). And in Europe, they > realised that they needed much stronger legistlation to get things really > done. > > Nevertheless, even in Canada (but especially in europe) there have > been many positive improvements at the town or regional level. There > have been many trials of various stuff that have proven effective. There > have been many > building systems and designs that have been tested, some proving very > effective, others not so effective. And this is providing a knowledge base > to help in > reaching the goals. > > There isn't going to be a magic bullet that solves the issue. It will > be a large number of small initiatives that each make their small > contribution which will end up providing a large enough reduction. > > > What is really needed is a per capita CO2 emission target adjusted > for latitude (to take into account heating costs for survival in > winter). And you also need a "fossil fuel added tax" similar to a VAT to > help for fair > accounting. What is needed is real science instead of "climatologists" postulating cause-effect and then trying to prove it, and having failed, using the political process to sell the idea anyway. > When you drill for oil, you sell the oil with a fossil fuel tax on it. > The refiner buys oil to be refined and buys oil to fuel the refining > process. The refined product is sold with a tax that combines both. > > The steel maker buys refined oil and pays that fossil fuel tax. When > it sells the steel to the car manufacturer, it includes that fossil fuel > tax. > The car manufacturer then also buys oil to fuel its car assembly > plants and the fossil fuel taxes from all the products that go into the > car are combined. > > When the car is sold, the owner ends up paying for the total carbon > footprint that was used to manufacture the car. The beauty of this is that > if > that car is exported to another country, it is the person in the > other country that inherits the responsability for the car's carbon > footprint and it affects that country's per capita carbon footprint. > (just discussing manufacture it, not > use). > Similarly, when someone buys fuel at a petrol station to power > his/her car, they pay the end carbon tax on the refined fuel (just > like the steel maker did). But being the end user, they can't deduct > it and it goes against that country's per capita CO2 consumption. > > Lets assume for a minute that the USA had a positive trade balance, > and generated 25% of the world's pollution. Americans citizens should > not be penalised for the carbon emissions generated when producing widgets > that are exported to canada, mexico or anywhere else. It is the > importers that should be penalised. > > But a company that is highly inefficient and which consumes a lot of > oil to produce a widget will not be as competitive as one which is far > more > efficient since the more efficient one will have a smaller carbon tax > attached to the product. > There would have to be some exceptions such as companies that > sequester oil products (plastics, vaseline, lubricants etc). Those do > not get burned so they should get a refund on the carbon tax for the > amount of fuel they sequester (but still pay the carbon tax generated > when the raw oil was refined before being delivered to them). ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:18:12 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: In article <45FA04DF.A69E5D6F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > That's like trying to plan for a nulcear holocaust, or volcanic obliteration. > > Deal with it when/if it happens. For now, get over it. I'll never be a Boy Scout, but even a child could see that's a defeatist attitude that could wipe us out. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:22:47 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: In article <45FA057E.A31A3D9F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> > It will run its course. This is inevitable and inescapable. >> >> So is rain, drought, and wind. We've been doing things about them >> for ages. > > Really? Gee - I thought "The Weather Machine" was just an animator's invention > in an UnderDog cartoon... I watched Underdog in the comfort of a row house. The rain and wind were outdoors. Effective irrigation to combat drought goes back quite some time, according to archeological evidence. You don't need science fiction to fight the weather, you need a good coat. Climate change is harder, you have to look at local contributions to a global problem and address them. That helps. Then you have to work on nature's contribution. I think during the last ice age the local solution was called "fire". Perhaps we can do better next time around. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 07:50:17 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174056617.758949.296870@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 16, 4:23 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaties > Nuclear test bans > Strategic Arms Limitation Talks > Hotlines between America and Russia Good point. However, I think David's comment was revolving around there isn't much WE can do about it, just hope the leaders of US and Russia can come to agreement. However, none of the initiatives you list help in the face of jihadists that think they are the instrument of Armagedon, or Yellowstone doing some rumbling. For those across the pond that may not have heard, Yellowstone National Park is the caldera of a super volcano that 600K, 1.2M, and 2.0M years ago dumped hundreds of cubic kilometers of ash across nearly the entire North American continent. About the only planning for that event I can imagine is moving the Australia. > etc > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > > >Deal with it when/if it happens. For now, get over it. > > >-- > >David J Dachtera > >dba DJE Systems > >http://www.djesys.com/ > > >Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > >Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > >Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:17:46 -0700 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174058266.639467.171870@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 16 Mar, 11:38, b...@instantwhip.com wrote: > On Mar 15, 10:13 pm, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" > wrote: > > > > > wrote in message > > >news:1173959513.942059.98020@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > On Mar 14, 9:09 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > > >> wrote in message > > > [...snip...] > > > > wrong again! You don't get along with the world, you are to be the > > > salt of the earth ... you are to set an example for these people ... > > > you are to be not of this world ... > > > > there was an interesting article about how light is slowing down > > > and that at the universe beginning it and time may have been > > > accelerated, so your so-called 6 billion years might have happened > > > in a thousand years time ... so 6000 years today might have > > > been 6 billion years early on ... > > > what a load of crap... > > > > I will trust God on these matters since He wrote the Bible ... > > > science knows NOTHING about the universe, they can't even > > > figure out things here yet ... > > > Like I said before, I am a practicing Christian (Lutheran) but do not > > believe that the bible is literally true. The bible was written by > > inspired > > people who were doing the best they could with the information > > available at > > the time. Most people are born into (rather than choosing) these > > dogmatic > > philosophies. Other crafty people use them to manipulate us into going > > to > > war, killing fags, etc. > > > Religion made 100% perfect sense as a child but some parts are now > > suspect > > as an adult: for example, God is all powerful (created the universe > > etc.) > > but some guy now says that God told him to tell "me" to be part of a > > holy > > war. What a load of crap... > > well you are not a Christian if you do not believe the Bible is the > inspired word of God ... > > the only person using the Bible to promote murder is the devil ... > > sometimes wars are justified, just read the old testament ... > > the message of the Bible is very clear ... the question is will you do > Gods will or your own ... sounds like you need to get to church and > get into a good Bible study class or talk to your pastor ... Bob, you are apparently a Christian and you are also apparently against bothering to do anything about Global Warming. Odd, the leaders of the World Wide Anglican Communion (Archbishop of Centerbury), the Roman Catholic Church in the US, the Vatican, the Vatican's Representative to the UN and the 35 US Protestant, Orthodox and African American denominations all have publically stated that Christians are morally obliged to do something about Global Warming. Rowan Williams words pretty much sum up the public stance of all the major Christian churches. The Right Reverend Rowan Williams said that Christians have a moral duty to support reductions in greenhouse gas emissions because if they do not, it could cause "billions of people to die." Regards Andrew Harrison ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:24:32 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174058671.953315.151220@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 14, 6:41 am, "Andrew" wrote: > I agree. There is almost unanimous scientific agreement that A the > world is getting hotter and B that mans activities through the release > of greenhouse gases and the destruction of CO2 regulators like the > tropical rainforest's is making the situation worse. It's not that unanimous, and it also doesn't mention other greenhouse gases (like h20) factors. Even scientists that provided data for "An Inconvenient Truth" are saying that Al Gore was being alarmist and presenting only worst case scenarios. There are parts of your conclusions I agree with, but just don't agree with your arguments (I know that sounds odd, but bear with me). > Idiots can argue about Sun cycles etc as much as they like but the sad > reality is that their arguments fall into the same category as early > theological arguments about the number of angels you could get on a > pinhead. Given the chaotic nature of global weather (i.e. the strange irony that at least 2 "global warming" summits have occured in areas having record cold spells), even our contribution isn't truly known. Given where the oil and coal came from (plants and animals), obviously there was abundant life while all this carbon was above ground in the environment. > The sad irony is that there is also a very good economic argument for > ignoring the people who are in Global Warming Denial and pushing ahead > with CO2 reduction programs. There's also a good economic argument for CO2 reduction, look at all the money being thrown at it. When you have governments willing to fund research and activities, of course there is going to be significant drive to continue this funding. > Oil and Coal are the two most significant sources of man produced CO2. > World Oil production has peaked while demand has not, this inevitably > will lead to long term price rises which will impact the economies > most dependent on Oil and Coal the worst while impacting low carbon > economies least. The Bush administration's inability to grasp this is > probably the biggest single long term threat to the US economy. I'm not worried about the CO2 emissions. I'm more concerned with oil and coal being limited consumable resources. We don't make oil and coal. We find it, extract it, and use it. It isn't replaced or replaceable. Eventually we are going to run out, so replacements need to be found. > Even at current energy prices installing energy efficient light bulbs > and super insulating my house have paid for themselves in roughly 12 > months in terms of reducing my utility bills while composting and > recycling costs me nothing while having a positive effect on our > carbon footprint. Our rain water recycling system will take longer to > pay for itself but I expect that to break even in 4 years. As business > cases I can sell this kind of return to almost anyone except it would > seem the Bush administration. Again, I disagree with your argument, but do agree with your conclusion that reducing energy bills through insulation and recycling just make plain economic sense (saving money). Unfortunately, selling this isn't as easy as you think (ignoring any administration), since many business only look to profits for the next quarter. Seems not enough look long term. > Nor is the US well placed to reap the benefits which will come from > the new industries spawned by the demand for renewables. Without > access to a large internal market and without government support the > US should expect to become a net importer of renewable technologies > and associated technologies such as nuclear power. The worlds largest > suppliers of Wind generators and Biomass heating systems are European > as are the most likely technologies for future Nuclear generation > facilities. We don't need government support, but actually get the government out in same cases. Some places using biomass to generate the own electricity are legally prohibited from selling it back to the grid. That just doesn't make sense. And it has nothing to do with the Bush administration, since this is happening at the state level. > The state of California has recognized this. Again, nothing to do with any federal administraton. > To pile irony on irony, when the Bush administration ruled out > implementing Kyoto they did so ostensibly because of a claimed cost to > the US economy of 400 billion dollars. Take a good look, Kyoto would have negligble impact on CO2. While they might restrict grownth, there are a lot of "carbon offsets" factors which don't reduce emissions, only move them around. Also, countries like China (likely to be the next major CO2 producer) are given a pass. So the next effect is we pay 400 billion, CO2 emissions still increase globally. Clinton didn't sign Kyoto, either, so you can't just make this a Bush bashing which you seem to want to do. > Contemplate the situation the US may find itself in in the next 3 > decades where they lose the top spot for CO2 emissions not because the > US has cleaned its act up but because the source of those emissions > has become too expensive for the US economy. Actually, the US will probably lose it's top spot due to growth in China, and other "3rd World" countries that are increasing their manufacturing and other economies. We won't "pollute less", everyone else will pollute more. Now, that doesn't mean I think we ought to remain dependent upon oil. I like renewable energy sources, more efficient heating/cooling systems, welcome advances in solar-cell panels, wind energy, and would like to see more and better nuke power plants. Energy demand globally is not going to go down, but only up. Forget global warming, oil just is not going to be able to keep up with demand and alternatives are needed. Like you said, oil production isn't going up that much. The US hasn't built a new refinery in decades. That's just basic supply- demand economics. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:43:37 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174059817.440282.198810@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 15, 3:40 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > What is really needed is a per capita CO2 emission target adjusted for latitude > (to take into account heating costs for survival in winter). And you also need > a "fossil fuel added tax" similar to a VAT to help for fair accounting. That's nuts. So, where does this "tax" go? It sure doesn't make the oil any more or less polluting. Maybe it will go in investments in other energy? Nah, legislators will pipe it into their own pet projects and pork barrel plans and otherwise make government larger. Meanwhile, Joe Blow pays more at the pump and is supposed to feel good about it. Why is it that we all recognize that one of the 3 biggest lies is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help", yet actually think giving them MORE tax money will somehow help? > There would have to be some exceptions such as companies that sequester oil > products (plastics, vaseline, lubricants etc). Those do not get burned so they > should get a refund on the carbon tax for the amount of fuel they sequester (but > still pay the carbon tax generated when the raw oil was refined before being > delivered to them). Ah yes, the exceptions. Which for any tax with exeptions is abused. Which requires more government oversight to monitor, and all the extra crud that comes with it... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:45:50 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174059950.201845.251090@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Mar 15, 9:21 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <8660a3a10703140735pc010fecm6b77aa3d8bd8f...@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" writes: > > > > > Ratification of foreign treaties is a function of the United States Senate, > > not of the President. > > He can't sign what they haven't ratified. (Well, I guess he could, but it > > would be a meaningless gesture, and would not have the force of law.) > > The Executive Branch negotiates and signs treaties with foreign > powers, before the treaty is sent to the Senate. The treaty has > no legal force unless the Senate ratifies it, but the Senate > will not look at a treaty that isn't signed. Presidents can, and > often do, set policy consistent with treaties that have not been > ratified, as far as his authority to set policies allows, and > existing law does not prevent. > > > The Senate did debate ratification of Kyoto, and they rejected it 95-0. > > That's Democrats and Republicans there, folks. > > > And this didn't happen under Bush, it was under Clinton. > > In a Republican Senate. What? You think Congress had 95 Republicans and 5 Democrats that abstained at the time? I'd say that result is about as bi-partisan as you get. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 02:59:44 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <12vlhlfo58l8590@corp.supernews.com> davidc@montagar.com wrote: > On Mar 16, 4:23 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >>Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaties >>Nuclear test bans >>Strategic Arms Limitation Talks >>Hotlines between America and Russia > > > Good point. However, I think David's comment was revolving around > there isn't much WE can do about it, just hope the leaders of US and > Russia can come to agreement. However, none of the initiatives you > list help in the face of jihadists that think they are the instrument > of Armagedon, or Yellowstone doing some rumbling. > > For those across the pond that may not have heard, Yellowstone > National Park is the caldera of a super volcano that 600K, 1.2M, and > 2.0M years ago dumped hundreds of cubic kilometers of ash across > nearly the entire North American continent. About the only planning > for that event I can imagine is moving the Australia. That won't necessarily help much David. We have one right next door under Lake Taupo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_volcano#Known_eruptions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oruanui_eruption and another about the same distance to the north http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Toba#The_eruption Though apart from these Terra Australis is a relatively quiet tectonic neighbourhood :-) > > >>etc >> >>David Webb >>Security team leader >>CCSS >>Middlesex University >> >> >>>Deal with it when/if it happens. For now, get over it. >> >>>-- >>>David J Dachtera >>>dba DJE Systems >>>http://www.djesys.com/ >> >>>Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page >>>http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ >> >>>Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: >>>http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >> >>>Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: >>>http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ >> >>>Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: >>>http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > > > ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 10:06:28 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174064788.755573.42690@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 16, 11:17 am, "Andrew" wrote: > On 16 Mar, 11:38, b...@instantwhip.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 10:13 pm, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" > > wrote: > > > > wrote in message > > > >news:1173959513.942059.98020@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Mar 14, 9:09 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > > > >> wrote in message > > > > [...snip...] > > > > > wrong again! You don't get along with the world, you are to be the > > > > salt of the earth ... you are to set an example for these people ... > > > > you are to be not of this world ... > > > > > there was an interesting article about how light is slowing down > > > > and that at the universe beginning it and time may have been > > > > accelerated, so your so-called 6 billion years might have happened > > > > in a thousand years time ... so 6000 years today might have > > > > been 6 billion years early on ... > > > > what a load of crap... > > > > > I will trust God on these matters since He wrote the Bible ... > > > > science knows NOTHING about the universe, they can't even > > > > figure out things here yet ... > > > > Like I said before, I am a practicing Christian (Lutheran) but do not > > > believe that the bible is literally true. The bible was written by > > > inspired > > > people who were doing the best they could with the information > > > available at > > > the time. Most people are born into (rather than choosing) these > > > dogmatic > > > philosophies. Other crafty people use them to manipulate us into going > > > to > > > war, killing fags, etc. > > > > Religion made 100% perfect sense as a child but some parts are now > > > suspect > > > as an adult: for example, God is all powerful (created the universe > > > etc.) > > > but some guy now says that God told him to tell "me" to be part of a > > > holy > > > war. What a load of crap... > > > well you are not a Christian if you do not believe the Bible is the > > inspired word of God ... > > > the only person using the Bible to promote murder is the devil ... > > > sometimes wars are justified, just read the old testament ... > > > the message of the Bible is very clear ... the question is will you do > > Gods will or your own ... sounds like you need to get to church and > > get into a good Bible study class or talk to your pastor ... > > Bob, you are apparently a Christian and you are also apparently > against bothering to do anything about Global Warming. > > Odd, the leaders of the World Wide Anglican Communion (Archbishop of > Centerbury), the Roman Catholic Church in the US, the Vatican, the > Vatican's Representative to the UN and the 35 US Protestant, Orthodox > and African American denominations all have publically stated that > Christians are morally obliged to do something about Global Warming. > > Rowan Williams words pretty much sum up the public stance of all the > major Christian churches. > > The Right Reverend Rowan Williams said that Christians have a moral > duty to support reductions in greenhouse gas emissions because if they > do not, it could cause "billions of people to die." > > Regards > Andrew Harrison- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - only the unbelievers are going to die when the antichrist takes over and God judges the world, which if you read revelation is going to happen very soon ... revelation also says that Christ will come back and rule on this earth for 1,000 years, then God will destroy it and create a new one ... again if you believe the Bible and actually read it you would know this, but since so many people are worrying about dying from global warming, it shows just how many people are going to end up missing the rapture and dying from Gods judgement ... you or anyone else here who is not a born again Christian who is living by what the Bible says will unfortunately miss the rapture and have to go thru it ... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 07:18:18 -0700 From: "tadamsmar" Subject: Re: AXP 150 available and probably cheap Message-ID: <1174054698.932266.17070@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Feb 7, 4:44 pm, "tadamsmar" wrote: > On Feb 5, 8:50 am, "tadamsmar" wrote: > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 9:00 pm, David J Dachtera > > wrote: > > > > By the way: Before you junk the 150, see if you can offer it to the community. I > > > wouldn't mind having a spare. > > > I seem to be bound by red-tape. It will be surplused. I think it > > will go up for sale at auction in the Research Triangle Park (RTP) in > > NC. It will be on a palette with a bunch of PCs most likely, but > > there should be an itemized list of the contents of the pallet. > > > I am trying to figure out where the auctions are held and how to get > > announcements in advance of the pallet inventories. > > > Some of the guys I work with have gone to the auctions in the past but > > the system and location may have changed since then. > > > They said that a pallet might sell for $10. Even if it bids up too > > high, you can just go to the buyer of the pallet and offer to buy the > > AXP 150. > > > I may just go buy the thing and make it available to the community if > > I can figure out how to do it. > > > It will most likely come without the PAKs, I don't know of a way to > > sell them and we might be able to use them on another system. > > > I am planning to delete everything on the disks before I surplus it, > > but I am not sure what I am legally obligated to do. Anyway, if you > > have the CDs you should be able to load another OS. > > > Are you located near the RTP? > > The auctions are announced at: > > www.gsaauctions.gov > > I would assume it will be in North Carolina some time in the near > future. > > I deleted all the licenses but left on the operating system so people > could confirmed it worked at the auction inspection if they cared to > do so and had the minimal possible password guessing skills :).- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - They picked up the APX150 this week, so I guess it could appear on the auction site soon: www.gsaauctions.gov It in North Carolina, Durham or RTP area. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:29:42 -0700 From: twnews@kittles.com Subject: Re: Biofules was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174058982.061746.111460@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 15, 6:52 pm, Paul Sture wrote: > In article , > > > > ChrisQuayle wrote: > > Bill Todd wrote: > > > Dr. Dweeb wrote: > > > > ... > > > >> As mentioned previously, I can think of plenty of other reasons to > > >> want to reduce dependence on carbon fossil fuels. GW is not one of them. > > > > And as mentioned previously I'm still waiting for something a hell of a > > > lot more credible than your personal opinion about global warming - such > > > as a paper in a reputable refereed scientific journal (this being, after > > > all, a question of scientific investigation rather than amateur debate). > > > > - bill > > > It's probably already gone beyond the point of pure scientific enquiry. > > In europe and the uk (in particular), it's becoming more about politics > > rather than objective search for the truth. Anyone who disagrees with > > the line probably doesn't get their papers published and perhaps won't > > get grants to research / evaluate conflicting evidence. So, how are we > > to know ?. > > It appears to me that politicians are using it as a means of raising > taxes. Want more tax money? Oh, let's call it a green tax. > > Then there's the question of carbon credits. Big money is involved. > > > With the developing world and China using more and more fossil fuel, > > it's in everyone's interest to reduce dependency on it to avoid future > > squabbles over allocation of resource. Gut feeling suggests that the > > current alarmist sounding rhetoric from our politicos is just a > > convenient rallying point to mask the real agenda - reduce dependency on > > unstable / foreign energy sources... > > I forget whether I heard it on the radio or read it in a newspaper a few > months ago, but the commentator was claiming that even if the UK hits > its targets for reductions of CO2 emission by 2010, China's growing > energy use would wipe out the net gain in a matter of not very many days. > > -- > Paul Sture You all seem to be missing the point! The real enemy is electricity!! Bio-mass, fossil fuel, green house effect, none of it matters electricity is destroying the world and we set back and watch it do so on our TVs. Get educated. Get real. Outlaw all artificial power. This is the only way to save the earth! Amish Bill (frequent reader, but first post to COV) VMS - unhackable since ever. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 02:43:13 -0700 From: "Ian Miller" Subject: Re: Boot camp registration update week ending March 16 Message-ID: <1174038193.002602.6980@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> For more on reasons to attend this event see the following by Bruce Claremont http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=07/03/13/4373746 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:27:22 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: Excursion Question Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:12:30 -0800, - wrote: > > > Tom Linden wrote: > >> Running V7.3.189 on XP SP2. Set display on VMS to point to XP, > >> opened emacs or notepadon VMS, and was hoping to cut and paste from a > >> window on XP to the one opened from VMS7.3, but paste on the DECW > >> display > >> only recognizes what last occured on VMS, and that is understandable, > >> but > >> is there any way to accomplish this, or is this a case of East is East > >> ... > >> --Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > > > Welcome to the XWin X Server > > Vendor: The Cygwin/X Project > > Release: 6.8.99.901-4 > > > > Copy & paste between Win <--> XEmacs just fine. > > > > Check your Excursion settings, or install Cygwin > > I run both cygwin and xemacs on XP, but using Excursion I was opening a > remote X-session for emacs running on VMS on XP, so pulling down paste > it was looking to VMS not XP. I suppose NFS or Samba might be a way > to go. "Pulling down paste" sounds as if you are trying to use the menu. It's way too long ago that I used eXcursion, but other with other X11 products have ended up using the mouse (plus either ALT or CTRL) to paste from Windows to VMS. For example, on my OS X box, I have just copied the last line of the text above into the paste buffer (using the standard OS X way to do that), and then used ALT-click to paste it into an xterm. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 05:49:30 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Excursion Question Message-ID: <1174049370.247809.78160@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> My experiences with eXcursion on XP is that sometimes cut and paste works as you expect, sometimes it doesn't. It's not even related to the boot (i.e. it's not a case of it breaks and rebooting fixes it). No rhyme not reason. Steve Tom Linden wrote: > Running V7.3.189 on XP SP2. Set display on VMS to point to XP, > opened emacs or notepadon VMS, and was hoping to cut and paste from a > window on XP to the one opened from VMS7.3, but paste on the DECW display > only recognizes what last occured on VMS, and that is understandable, but > is there any way to accomplish this, or is this a case of East is East ... > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:04:41 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Excursion Question Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > I run both cygwin and xemacs on XP, but using Excursion I was opening a > remote > X-session for emacs running on VMS on XP, so pulling down paste it was > looking > to VMS not XP. I suppose NFS or Samba might be a way to go. No,I think it was looking to the X server, which if I read you correctly was running on XP. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 05:47:23 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Excursion Question Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:43:33 -0800, - wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:45:51 -0800, Ken Fairfield >> wrote: >> >>> Tom Linden wrote: >>>> Running V7.3.189 on XP SP2. Set display on VMS to point to XP, >>>> opened emacs or notepadon VMS, and was hoping to cut and paste from a >>>> window on XP to the one opened from VMS7.3, but paste on the DECW >>>> display >>>> only recognizes what last occured on VMS, and that is understandable, >>>> but >>>> is there any way to accomplish this, or is this a case of East is >>>> East ... >>> >>> Haven't used Excursion, but eXceed has a setting to copy the >>> "primary selection" to the clipboard (I think that was the >>> correct terminology) and vice versa. So check if Excursion >>> has any similar settings. It should be possible... >> The control panel has 14 tabs, but I saw nothing that looked suitable > > However, I think XEmacs has some control in this regard. Are you using a > current version of XEmacs? See > http://docsrv.caldera.com:8457/cgi-bin/info2html?(xemacs)X%2520Cut%2520Buffers > I was cutting from Xemacs running native on XP to emacs X-served on XP running on VMS. But this morning it works! I have no idea what happened. >>> >>> -Ken >> --Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: >> http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:06:28 -0400 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: Excursion Question Message-ID: "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:op.tpaa89gctte90l@hyrrokkin... > On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:43:33 -0800, - wrote: > I was cutting from Xemacs running native on XP to emacs X-served on XP > running > on VMS. But this morning it works! I have no idea what happened. > Tom, FWIW, this happens to me a lot also. Sometimes I can copy from my CSWB session and paste into an XP window and sometimes not. At those time I am always able to paste into a DECTerm window and then copy from there and paste into any other XP window. I've never bothered to discuss this with our eXcursion folks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:00:40 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: Guy Peleg's Brussels Presentation Message-ID: In article , Doc wrote: > Please check http://deathrow.vistech.net for links to Guy's material from a > presentation he gave this Monday at HP Brussels. > > The topic was 8.3 new features and tuning, apparently a speciality of the > place where he works now, BRUDEN OSSG. > > Yes, they're Powerpoint (Except for the bonus one), and they're big. But > there's lots of useful stuff in them. > > Thanks also to Kevin FitzPatrick who said I could share these with all and > sundry. He provided the "World Hunger" PDF. > Thanks for the link. The V8.3 New Features presentation not only served as a useful reminder of features V8.3 brought, but added some very good tips for performance, in particular for BACKUP. I have yet to study the other presentations, but based in this one, they should be well worth a read. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 06:45:02 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Clubley=20 > [mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]=20 > Sent: March 14, 2007 8:21 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? [snip ...] > 1) How about this from the Microsoft patches (note the 5=20 > years of Mainstream > support): >=20 > |Microsoft Support Lifecycle for Business and Developer Software > = |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > |The Microsoft Support Lifecycle policy provides consistent and=20 > |predictable guidelines for product support availability at the=20 > |time that the product is released. Under this policy, Microsoft=20 > |will offer a minimum of ten years of support. This includes five=20 > |years of Mainstream Support and five years of Extended Support for=20 > |Business and Developer products. Microsoft will continue to provide=20 > |security update support, at a supported Service Pack level, for a=20 > |minimum of ten years through the Extended support phase. For more=20 > |information about the Microsoft Support Lifecycle, visit=20 > |http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/ or contact your Technical=20 > |Account Manager. >=20 > Or the 10 year plan that DEC put in place when it dropped the PDP-10 > in 1983 ? >=20 > Or the 5 year support committment for the server version of=20 > Ubuntu 6.06 LTS ? >=20 > Simon. My reply was with regards to JF's comments on the OpenVMS roadmap documents and whether they should be considered legally binding or not. Can you provide a pointer to a public roadmap on Microsofts planned new releases for each major aspect of its products for the next 5 years? How about Oracle or IBM or Sun? Thx, Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:02:00 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: charges dropped against Patrica Dunn Message-ID: In article <55u772F25upg1U3@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> Swift justice may be delayed by one's own lawyers without violating >> the Constitution. And it often is. > > I don't remember anywhere in the Constitution that gives either side the > right to delay things. The courts have ruled many times that delay by your own action (or your lawyers) is not a violation. If a defendant has a reasonable request for delays he can't use that delay as an excuse for getting the court to drop the case. If he could, then all defendants would trivially get themselves declared not guilty due to the delays they asked for themselves. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:24:47 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Power Consumption Message-ID: Paul Sture writes: >We could also take one step back from the electrical equipment itself >and look at power bricks, certainly for home and small office >environments. >I currently have the following equipment, each with its own power brick: ... >It would make sense to have a common standard for such electrical >equipment so that you could have one power brick which could supply n >devices, at the voltage each requires and with an adequate power rating >to supply the lot. We have a standard, it's called 120V AC (in the US). :-) Actually, I'm sure the reason we have all those wall-warts in the first place us UL safety standards. Any 120V device has to meet certain standards to what happens in response to short circuits, overvoltages etc. If the transformer is built in, the whole device is subject. With a wall-wart, the 120V stops inside the device, and the current-limited output is exempt or subject to much looser rules. Only the wart is subject to UL rules. I agree that a universal wall-wart standard would be a good thing. I've seen wall-warts with a USB plug that supplies power (only) to some USB devices. USB standard power for devices may be a good way of doing so. One restriction if that a universal power supply would come under different safety rules once its total output exceeds a certain power level (or current, I forget which) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:57:03 +1100 From: Jim Duff Subject: Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Message-ID: <45fa31af$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote: > I just inherited a TZ885-NT tape drive with autoloader. Unfortunately, > the front panel is completely blank-- it has four round buttons but no > labels. So far I have figured out that the far right button opens the > loader door and the next button to the left loads a tape. > > Can anyone point me to any documentation on this drive? I have > searched HP.com but all I find are references to this drive in manuals > for other products. > > Thanks, > Bill > http://www.xenya.si/sup/info/digital/MDS/jun99/Cd3/STORAGE/SM1TGUGB.PDF Cheers, Jim. -- www.eight-cubed.com ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 03:15:21 -0700 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com Subject: Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Message-ID: <1174040121.377870.15150@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 15, 11:57 pm, Jim Duff wrote: > mcbil...@yahoo.com wrote: > > I just inherited a TZ885-NT tape drive with autoloader. Unfortunately, > > the front panel is completely blank-- it has four round buttons but no > > labels. So far I have figured out that the far right button opens the > > loader door and the next button to the left loads a tape. > > > Can anyone point me to any documentation on this drive? I have > > searched HP.com but all I find are references to this drive in manuals > > for other products. > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > http://www.xenya.si/sup/info/digital/MDS/jun99/Cd3/STORAGE/SM1TGUGB.PDF > > Cheers, > Jim. > --www.eight-cubed.com Thank you! I appreciate that. Sorry, I put this in the topic but not in the detail...but does anyone know what software is available on VMS for controlling the loader? Thanks again. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:00:19 -0400 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Message-ID: wrote in message news:1174040121.377870.15150@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On Mar 15, 11:57 pm, Jim Duff wrote: >> mcbil...@yahoo.com wrote: >> > I just inherited a TZ885-NT tape drive with autoloader. Unfortunately, >> > the front panel is completely blank-- it has four round buttons but no >> > labels. So far I have figured out that the far right button opens the >> > loader door and the next button to the left loads a tape. >> >> > Can anyone point me to any documentation on this drive? I have >> > searched HP.com but all I find are references to this drive in manuals >> > for other products. >> >> > Thanks, >> > Bill >> >> http://www.xenya.si/sup/info/digital/MDS/jun99/Cd3/STORAGE/SM1TGUGB.PDF >> >> Cheers, >> Jim. >> --www.eight-cubed.com > > Thank you! I appreciate that. Sorry, I put this in the topic but not > in the detail...but does anyone know what software is available on VMS > for controlling the loader? > > Thanks again. > Bill > The only one that I know of that might work is MRU - http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/storage/mrupage.html ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 08:09:18 -0700 From: "Ian Miller" Subject: Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Message-ID: <1174057758.187987.73900@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> there was a port of MTX for VMS. HP have MRU ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 10:22:58 -0700 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com Subject: Re: TZ885 Loader manual and software question Message-ID: <1174065778.918970.136790@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 16, 9:09 am, "Ian Miller" wrote: > there was a port of MTX for VMS. HP have MRU Thanks. I don't suppose there is a hobbyist license... Bill ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.150 ************************