INFO-VAX Sat, 17 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 151 Contents: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AXP 150 available and probably cheap Re: Climatology was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: Climatology was: AMD's well may be running dry How many license units required for a DS15? RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Re: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Re: Power Consumption Re: Power Consumption (was: Re: AMD's well may be running dry) RE: Shopping cart that works on VMS Re: Shopping cart that works on VMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:42:01 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45f9bf28$0$16394$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> wrote in message news:1173959513.942059.98020@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Mar 14, 9:09 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: >> wrote in message >> [...snip...] > > wrong again! You don't get along with the world, you are to be the > salt of the earth ... you are to set an example for these people ... > you are to be not of this world ... > > there was an interesting article about how light is slowing down > and that at the universe beginning it and time may have been > accelerated, so your so-called 6 billion years might have happened > in a thousand years time ... so 6000 years today might have > been 6 billion years early on ... > what a load of crap... > > I will trust God on these matters since He wrote the Bible ... > science knows NOTHING about the universe, they can't even > figure out things here yet ... > Like I said before, I am a practicing Christian (Lutheran) but do not believe that the bible is literally true. The bible was written by inspired people who were doing the best they could with the information available at the time. Most people are born into (rather than choosing) these dogmatic philosophies. Other crafty people use them to manipulate us into going to war, killing fags, etc. Religion made 100% perfect sense as a child but some parts are now suspect as an adult: for example, God is all powerful (created the universe etc.) but some guy now says that God told him to tell "me" to be part of a holy war. What a load of crap... > > now we may learn more when someone discovers some > dilithium crystals so we can get spock to help build a > starship ... otherwise we can't even get a man to mars ... > > and you better hurry before him and kirk dies, because > you already lost scotty and they are the only hope left! :) > I'm not even sure what this star ship stuff means. Science is a pragmatic process to collect information and build theories to describe how everything in the universe works. The computer you are using right now would be considered witchcraft 200 years ago but today we all accept it as understandable technology. We don't have all the answers now but science will provide more answers in the future provided we don't turf it all for some religious dogma. ### Now let me pass on something that's been in the back of my mind since college days. Maxwell unified electricity and magnetism into the electromagnetic theory. Anyone who has studied this knows that the electric field propagates at 90 degrees to the magnetic field. Yet in some sense they are both manifestations of the same thing but separated in time. Einstein did the same thing in special relativity with mass and energy. In general relativity he unified space and time into something called space-time. Quantum mechanics tells us that particles exhibit wave-particle duality. So the universe around us doesn't seem to be just one thing, but usually two. To me it "feels" like man has both material and spiritual components. So maybe we would be doing the creator a huge disservice by choosing "religion over science" or "science over religion". It seems to me that the most balanced people this side of Y2K have one foot in each world. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 19:47:19 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: bob@instantwhip.com wrote in news:1174064788.755573.42690@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: > only the unbelievers are going to die when the antichrist takes > over and God judges the world, which if you read revelation is > going to happen very soon ... > > revelation also says that Christ will come back and rule on this > earth for 1,000 years, then God will destroy it and create a new > one ... again if you believe the Bible and actually read it you > would know this, but since so many people are worrying about > dying from global warming, it shows just how many people are > going to end up missing the rapture and dying from Gods > judgement ... you or anyone else here who is not a born again > Christian who is living by what the Bible says will unfortunately > miss the rapture and have to go thru it ... Bob, I seriously wonder how you can function in the same world as the rest of us if you believe this stuff. You're obviously related to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Watt, the looney-tunes born again nutjob that Ronald Reagan appointed. Tell me, do you think you should provide for your children, and your children's children? Or do you think we should rape the planet and hope God pops up and sorts it all out with a magic rapture? My beliefs are based in the tenets of Buddhism, which - much as it will disturb you - allows me to believe we have an obligation to look after the planet for future generations and need not believe in a God. I've read the Bible from cover to cover, and your assertion that it is the literal word of God is laughable. Particularly Revelations, for that bit of fiction I'm with Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, it was probably written by someone who was overly fond of dodgy mushrooms. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 12:54:50 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174074890.889490.136760@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 16, 11:17 am, "Andrew" wrote: > On 16 Mar, 11:38, b...@instantwhip.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 10:13 pm, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" > > wrote: > > > > wrote in message > > > >news:1173959513.942059.98020@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Mar 14, 9:09 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > > > >> wrote in message > > > > [...snip...] > > > > > wrong again! You don't get along with the world, you are to be the > > > > salt of the earth ... you are to set an example for these people ... > > > > you are to be not of this world ... > > > > > there was an interesting article about how light is slowing down > > > > and that at the universe beginning it and time may have been > > > > accelerated, so your so-called 6 billion years might have happened > > > > in a thousand years time ... so 6000 years today might have > > > > been 6 billion years early on ... > > > > what a load of crap... > > > > > I will trust God on these matters since He wrote the Bible ... > > > > science knows NOTHING about the universe, they can't even > > > > figure out things here yet ... > > > > Like I said before, I am a practicing Christian (Lutheran) but do not > > > believe that the bible is literally true. The bible was written by > > > inspired > > > people who were doing the best they could with the information > > > available at > > > the time. Most people are born into (rather than choosing) these > > > dogmatic > > > philosophies. Other crafty people use them to manipulate us into going > > > to > > > war, killing fags, etc. > > > > Religion made 100% perfect sense as a child but some parts are now > > > suspect > > > as an adult: for example, God is all powerful (created the universe > > > etc.) > > > but some guy now says that God told him to tell "me" to be part of a > > > holy > > > war. What a load of crap... > > > well you are not a Christian if you do not believe the Bible is the > > inspired word of God ... > > > the only person using the Bible to promote murder is the devil ... > > > sometimes wars are justified, just read the old testament ... > > > the message of the Bible is very clear ... the question is will you do > > Gods will or your own ... sounds like you need to get to church and > > get into a good Bible study class or talk to your pastor ... > > Bob, you are apparently a Christian and you are also apparently > against bothering to do anything about Global Warming. > > Odd, the leaders of the World Wide Anglican Communion (Archbishop of > Centerbury), the Roman Catholic Church in the US, the Vatican, the > Vatican's Representative to the UN and the 35 US Protestant, Orthodox > and African American denominations all have publically stated that > Christians are morally obliged to do something about Global Warming. > > Rowan Williams words pretty much sum up the public stance of all the > major Christian churches. > > The Right Reverend Rowan Williams said that Christians have a moral > duty to support reductions in greenhouse gas emissions because if they > do not, it could cause "billions of people to die." > > Regards > Andrew Harrison- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article23627... Ocean heat blamed for the mysterious disappearance of glaciers By Steve Connor Published: 16 March 2007 A mysterious phenomenon is causing four major glaciers in the Antarctic to shrink in unison, causing a significant increase in sea levels, scientists have found. The rise in atmospheric temperatures caused by global warming cannot account for the relatively rapid movement of the glaciers into the sea, but scientists suspect that warmer oceans may be playing a role. "There is a possibility that heat from the ocean is somehow flowing in underneath these glaciers, but it is not related to global warming," said glaciologist Duncan Wingham of University College London. "Something has changed that is causing these glaciers to shrink. "At this rate the glaciers will all be afloat in 150 years or so." Satellite measurements have shown that the Antarctic glaciers are retreating in a uniform manner, suggesting a common cause. Air temperatures over Antarctica are much too cold for any significant surface melting, which suggests that the flow of the glaciers into the sea is being aided by melting at their base, lubricating their movement into the ocean. In a study in the journal Science, Dr Wingham and colleague Andrew Shepherd of Edinburgh University found that the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have together contributed a sea level rise of 0.35mm a year over the past decade - about 12 per cent of the current global trend. While the retreat of the Greenland ice sheet can be linked to melting of the glaciers' surface, the same it not true of the four major glaciers in the Antarctic identified by Wingham and Shepherd. "These glaciers are vulnerable to small changes in ocean temperature," he said. "A rise of less than 0.5C could have triggered the present imbalance." However, it would take about 200 years for extra heat from the ocean to reach the underside of the glaciers, which makes it difficult to believe that the present shrinkage is due to global warming, Dr Wingham said. ................................................................................................. and make sure you read this last paragraph real carefully ... this is from a specialist in glaciers ... from London ... not an american scientist for you conspiracy theorists ... but don't believe the Bible who tells you what is going to happen or all the scentists who are experts and actually are studying this and disproving it, believe Al Gore and go buy one of his carbon gadjets so he can get rich ... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 13:34:13 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174077252.990138.225890@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 16, 3:52 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Dr. Dweeb wrote: > > What is needed is real science instead of "climatologists" postulating > > cause-effect and then trying to prove it, and having failed, using the > > political process to sell the idea anyway. > > Are you able to disprove the fact that when water goes from -0 to +0, it = melts ? > > Are you able to diprove the number on the amount of ice on land in both t= he > arctic/greenland as well as antarctica ? > > Are you able to disprove the fact that more and more of the arctic ocean = becomes > open water in the summer and that the summer (in terms of navication) is = longer > now than it was before ? Are you able to disprove that this ice is curren= tly > melting and are you able to provide that satellite imaging showing ice co= vered > surfaces schrinking ? > > Are you able to disprove the fact that darker substances aborb more heat = than > white snow ? (aka: open ocean water versus ice/snow covered ocean) ? > > Are you aware of El Ninio and the destructuve nature of the weather that > accompanies it ? It is caused by minute temperature changes in ocean wate= r=2E > Imagine how much a more significant change in ocean temperature and water= levels > would do. > > How much in terms of assets and infrastructure in the USA are near sea le= vel ? > How much or that would be destroyed by rising sea levels which would brin= g more > destruction/flooding/erosion during storms ? > > Can you really afford to ignore the scientific facts ? > > Again, forget the USA's weather. You need to consider the border zones wh= ere the > average temperature is near the freezing point. Raise the average tempera= ture by > a couple of degrees and all of a sudden, you have a lot of ice melting in= to the > ocean. > > Your reaction is akin to homeonewrs near a river being warned of possible > flooding in the spring and refuse to sand bag their property because they= see no > scientific evidence that this will happen since those are just prediction= s=2E > > You are correct. This isn't hard evidence like the knowkedge that mixing > glycerine with nitro something creates a mighty explosive. > > But the humanity has moved beyond just empirical evidence a LONG LONG tim= e ago. > We have the power of reason and deduction. And we can predict certain thi= ngs. > Eisntein was pretty good and coming up with theories that have been accep= ted. > > Based on what we are seeing happen today (weather data, and those are fac= tual), > we can reson/deduct that we are headed towards something really really ba= d if > nothing is done with it. > > We also know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas (as well as others). Humans hav= e that > uncanny hability to test CO2 in a lab and find that it lets light though,= but > reflects infrared, AND they are able to deduct what happens on a planerar= y scale. > > We also know that humans have recently begun to introduce large quantitie= s of > CO2 in the atmosphere (previously sequestered for millions of years > underground), and that the weather DATA starts to match CO2 emissions sta= rting > at a certain point. (aka: when CO2 production exceeded plant consumption = of CO2. > > Consider also that airlines dump CO2 in upper atmoshere where plants can'= t get > to it. The minute it goes out the jet engines, it is contributing to risi= ng > temperatures. At least the gas that comes out of the SUV/Hummers people d= rive > takes a number of years before it reaches the upper atmosphere, and at le= ast > while still near the ground, those gases have a chance to be captured by = plants. > > Sorry, but people who refuse to accept the fact that CO2 is harming the p= lanet > are like ultra religious people who refused to accept the fact that the e= arth is > not the centre of the universe. > > > > > > >> When you drill for oil, you sell the oil with a fossil fuel tax on it. > >> The refiner buys oil to be refined and buys oil to fuel the refining > >> process. The refined product is sold with a tax that combines both. > > >> The steel maker buys refined oil and pays that fossil fuel tax. When > >> it sells the steel to the car manufacturer, it includes that fossil fu= el > >> tax. > >> The car manufacturer then also buys oil to fuel its car assembly > >> plants and the fossil fuel taxes from all the products that go into the > >> car are combined. > > >> When the car is sold, the owner ends up paying for the total carbon > >> footprint that was used to manufacture the car. The beauty of this is = that > >> if > >> that car is exported to another country, it is the person in the > >> other country that inherits the responsability for the car's carbon > >> footprint and it affects that country's per capita carbon footprint. > >> (just discussing manufacture it, not > >> use). > >> Similarly, when someone buys fuel at a petrol station to power > >> his/her car, they pay the end carbon tax on the refined fuel (just > >> like the steel maker did). But being the end user, they can't deduct > >> it and it goes against that country's per capita CO2 consumption. > > >> Lets assume for a minute that the USA had a positive trade balance, > >> and generated 25% of the world's pollution. Americans citizens should > >> not be penalised for the carbon emissions generated when producing wid= gets > >> that are exported to canada, mexico or anywhere else. It is the > >> importers that should be penalised. > > >> But a company that is highly inefficient and which consumes a lot of > >> oil to produce a widget will not be as competitive as one which is far > >> more > >> efficient since the more efficient one will have a smaller carbon tax > >> attached to the product. > >> There would have to be some exceptions such as companies that > >> sequester oil products (plastics, vaseline, lubricants etc). Those do > >> not get burned so they should get a refund on the carbon tax for the > >> amount of fuel they sequester (but still pay the carbon tax generated > >> when the raw oil was refined before being delivered to them).- Hide qu= oted text - > > - Show quoted text - http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article23627... Ocean heat blamed for the mysterious disappearance of glaciers By Steve Connor Published: 16 March 2007 A mysterious phenomenon is causing four major glaciers in the Antarctic to shrink in unison, causing a significant increase in sea levels, scientists have found. The rise in atmospheric temperatures caused by global warming cannot account for the relatively rapid movement of the glaciers into the sea, but scientists suspect that warmer oceans may be playing a role. "There is a possibility that heat from the ocean is somehow flowing in underneath these glaciers, but it is not related to global warming," said glaciologist Duncan Wingham of University College London. "Something has changed that is causing these glaciers to shrink. "At this rate the glaciers will all be afloat in 150 years or so." Satellite measurements have shown that the Antarctic glaciers are retreating in a uniform manner, suggesting a common cause. Air temperatures over Antarctica are much too cold for any significant surface melting, which suggests that the flow of the glaciers into the sea is being aided by melting at their base, lubricating their movement into the ocean. In a study in the journal Science, Dr Wingham and colleague Andrew Shepherd of Edinburgh University found that the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have together contributed a sea level rise of 0=2E35mm a year over the past decade - about 12 per cent of the current global trend. While the retreat of the Greenland ice sheet can be linked to melting of the glaciers' surface, the same it not true of the four major glaciers in the Antarctic identified by Wingham and Shepherd. "These glaciers are vulnerable to small changes in ocean temperature," he said. "A rise of less than 0.5C could have triggered the present imbalance." However, it would take about 200 years for extra heat from the ocean to reach the underside of the glaciers, which makes it difficult to believe that the present shrinkage is due to global warming, Dr Wingham said. .=2E.......................................................................= .=2E=AD...................... and make sure you read this last paragraph real carefully ... this is from a specialist in glaciers ... from London ... not an american scientist for you conspiracy theorists ... but don't believe the Bible who tells you what is going to happen or all the scentists who are experts and actually are studying this and disproving it, believe Al Gore and go buy one of his carbon gadjets so he can get rich ... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 15:56:44 -0700 From: "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174085804.145745.36070@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> > > well you are not a Christian if you do not believe the Bible is the > inspired word of God ... > > the only person using the Bible to promote murder is the devil ... > > sometimes wars are justified, just read the old testament ... > > the message of the Bible is very clear ... the question is will you do > Gods will or your own ... sounds like you need to get to church and > get into a good Bible study class or talk to your pastor ... > You, sir, are a dogmatic idiot who has surrendered his ability to think just like the people who fly jets into buildings in the name of Allah. No true Christian whould ever use the old testament for anything other than an historical reference. ### Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them. 1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence. 4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? 7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 16:20:20 -0700 From: "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174087220.627307.20070@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> > > only the unbelievers are going to die when the antichrist takes > over and God judges the world, which if you read revelation is > going to happen very soon ... > > revelation also says that Christ will come back and rule on this > earth for 1,000 years, then God will destroy it and create a new > one ... again if you believe the Bible and actually read it you > would know this, but since so many people are worrying about > dying from global warming, it shows just how many people are > going to end up missing the rapture and dying from Gods > judgement ... you or anyone else here who is not a born again > Christian who is living by what the Bible says will unfortunately > miss the rapture and have to go thru it ... > Martin Luther, the guy who kicked off the protestant christian reformation, wrote that the Book of Revelation was worthless and probably should have been left of of the cannon of scripture which was set at the Council of Rome in 382 AD. Some theologeans think that John wrote the book in code (Eschatology) while others believed that he was suffereing the effects of food poisioning during the 5 years of Roman captivity when he wrote it. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 18:21:31 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174094491.561763.203190@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 16, 10:43 am, dav...@montagar.com wrote: > On Mar 15, 3:40 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > > What is really needed is a per capita CO2 emission target adjusted for latitude > > (to take into account heating costs for survival in winter). And you also need > > a "fossil fuel added tax" similar to a VAT to help for fair accounting. > > That's nuts. So, where does this "tax" go? It sure doesn't make the > oil any more or less polluting. Maybe it will go in investments in No, but by making use of oil more expensive it encourages people to use less of it, which reduces the total pollution. I remember learning about this in college: the method of taxing pollution. It is the most efficient way to do it. The particular idea discussed in the course (and its book) was just taxing a factory that emits pollution. You tax it a certain rate -- so many dollars for so many tons of pollutant emitted. Then it is up to the factory to determine how much to spend on scrubbers, etc., to reduce the pollution so as to reduce the tax. If spending $1 million gets you from, let's say, 15,000 tons of pollutant down to 1,100 tons (per unit time), but it takes another $100,000,000 to reduce it from 1100 to 1000 tons, then you spend the $1 million and you don't end up wasing $99 million for a very small reduction in the pollutant. This is better than an arbitrary ceiling of 1000 tons in this case. If you find that the pollution is still to high, you raise the tax periodically until you achieve a reasonable result. The same idea can be used for a carbon tax. What happens to the collected tax is another matter, of course, but it could be used to reduce all other taxes and it would still reduce CO2 emissions. > other energy? Nah, legislators will pipe it into their own pet > projects and pork barrel plans and otherwise make government larger. > Meanwhile, Joe Blow pays more at the pump and is supposed to feel good > about it. > > Why is it that we all recognize that one of the 3 biggest lies is > "I'm from the government and I'm here to help", yet actually think > giving them MORE tax money will somehow help? Well, why not just get rid of gov't altogether? > > > There would have to be some exceptions such as companies that sequester oil > > products (plastics, vaseline, lubricants etc). Those do not get burned so they > > should get a refund on the carbon tax for the amount of fuel they sequester (but > > still pay the carbon tax generated when the raw oil was refined before being > > delivered to them). > > Ah yes, the exceptions. Which for any tax with exeptions is abused. > Which requires more government oversight to monitor, and all the extra > crud that comes with it... Do you have a suggestion that is immune to abuse? AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 02:44:08 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45fb47e5$0$182$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > Dr. Dweeb wrote: >> What is needed is real science instead of "climatologists" >> postulating cause-effect and then trying to prove it, and having >> failed, using the political process to sell the idea anyway. > > > Are you able to disprove the fact that when water goes from -0 to +0, > it melts ? > Are you able to diprove the number on the amount of ice on land in > both the arctic/greenland as well as antarctica ? > > Are you able to disprove the fact that more and more of the arctic > ocean becomes open water in the summer and that the summer (in terms > of navication) is longer now than it was before ? Are you able to > disprove that this ice is currently melting and are you able to > provide that satellite imaging showing ice covered surfaces > schrinking ? > Are you able to disprove the fact that darker substances aborb more > heat than white snow ? (aka: open ocean water versus ice/snow > covered ocean) ? > Are you aware of El Ninio and the destructuve nature of the weather > that accompanies it ? It is caused by minute temperature changes in > ocean water. Imagine how much a more significant change in ocean > temperature and water levels would do. > > How much in terms of assets and infrastructure in the USA are near > sea level ? How much or that would be destroyed by rising sea levels > which would bring more destruction/flooding/erosion during storms ? > > > Can you really afford to ignore the scientific facts ? > You are an intellectually incapable fool (this is is a personal opinion based on your postings) You need to distinguish observation and cause-effect - something which you amply demonstrate here that you are incapable of doing. > Again, forget the USA's weather. You need to consider the border > zones where the average temperature is near the freezing point. Raise > the average temperature by a couple of degrees and all of a sudden, > you have a lot of ice melting into the ocean. > > Your reaction is akin to homeonewrs near a river being warned of > possible flooding in the spring and refuse to sand bag their property > because they see no scientific evidence that this will happen since > those are just predictions. > > You are correct. This isn't hard evidence like the knowkedge that > mixing glycerine with nitro something creates a mighty explosive. > > But the humanity has moved beyond just empirical evidence a LONG LONG > time ago. We have the power of reason and deduction. And we can > predict certain things. Eisntein was pretty good and coming up with > theories that have been accepted. > Based on what we are seeing happen today (weather data, and those are > factual), we can reson/deduct that we are headed towards something > really really bad if nothing is done with it. > > We also know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas (as well as others). Humans > have that uncanny hability to test CO2 in a lab and find that it lets > light though, but reflects infrared, AND they are able to deduct what > happens on a planerary scale. > > We also know that humans have recently begun to introduce large > quantities of CO2 in the atmosphere (previously sequestered for > millions of years underground), and that the weather DATA starts to > match CO2 emissions starting at a certain point. (aka: when CO2 > production exceeded plant consumption of CO2. > Consider also that airlines dump CO2 in upper atmoshere where plants > can't get to it. The minute it goes out the jet engines, it is > contributing to rising temperatures. At least the gas that comes out > of the SUV/Hummers people drive takes a number of years before it > reaches the upper atmosphere, and at least while still near the > ground, those gases have a chance to be captured by plants. > Sorry, but people who refuse to accept the fact that CO2 is harming > the planet are like ultra religious people who refused to accept the > fact that the earth is not the centre of the universe. > > You would be a failure as a scientist. This post is flawed at so many levels it is difficult to know where to start. You take a set of selected observed events, and ascribe them all to a single cause with no theoretical basis upon which to do so. You then posit a solution based on this faulty logic. It is as logically flawed to list the same set of observed events, ascribe them to a supernatural being, and claim that burning cows at the alter will solve the problem!!! The bottom line is that climatological models are incapable of predicting the past, where all the data is known, and relying on them to predict the future is of the same level of folly as relying upon prayer - ie. an act of faith. If it can be predicted accurately, that global temperatures will fluctuate in certain cycles based on the physics of planetary movement and the observed behaviour of the physics of the power source etc., and these predictions concord closely with the past and measurments in real time, then the theory has merit and is likely to have a high degree of predictive reliability. A scientific theory that has no predictive capability is useless and will be discarded by a scientist as a futile pursuit. Climatology has essentially zero credibility at present. Current models are incapable of predicting the past when all the inputs and outputs are known. Why do you think that climatological models might accurately predict the future, or even explain the present, when they are incapable of predicting known history? There are plenty of theories with large bodies of scientific and empirical research that accurately predict the past and present which clearly are better choices upon which to base policy. The politics of alarmism or whatever you wish to call it is not serving science, or humanity. There are environmental issues that are more important, where the cause-effect is demonstrated and provable, and where mankinds actions (or inactions) can affect the state. In these areas there is a cost benefit for expending energy and money. Yelling and screaming about the end of life as we know it because of a very dubious cause-effect ascription to C02 emissions is a waste of breath and effort. Dweeb > > > > >> >> >>> When you drill for oil, you sell the oil with a fossil fuel tax on >>> it. The refiner buys oil to be refined and buys oil to fuel the >>> refining process. The refined product is sold with a tax that >>> combines both. The steel maker buys refined oil and pays that fossil >>> fuel tax. When >>> it sells the steel to the car manufacturer, it includes that fossil >>> fuel tax. >>> The car manufacturer then also buys oil to fuel its car assembly >>> plants and the fossil fuel taxes from all the products that go into >>> the car are combined. >>> >>> When the car is sold, the owner ends up paying for the total carbon >>> footprint that was used to manufacture the car. The beauty of this >>> is that if >>> that car is exported to another country, it is the person in the >>> other country that inherits the responsability for the car's carbon >>> footprint and it affects that country's per capita carbon footprint. >>> (just discussing manufacture it, not >>> use). >>> Similarly, when someone buys fuel at a petrol station to power >>> his/her car, they pay the end carbon tax on the refined fuel (just >>> like the steel maker did). But being the end user, they can't deduct >>> it and it goes against that country's per capita CO2 consumption. >>> >>> Lets assume for a minute that the USA had a positive trade balance, >>> and generated 25% of the world's pollution. Americans citizens >>> should not be penalised for the carbon emissions generated when >>> producing widgets that are exported to canada, mexico or anywhere >>> else. It is the importers that should be penalised. >>> >>> But a company that is highly inefficient and which consumes a lot of >>> oil to produce a widget will not be as competitive as one which is >>> far more >>> efficient since the more efficient one will have a smaller carbon >>> tax attached to the product. >>> There would have to be some exceptions such as companies that >>> sequester oil products (plastics, vaseline, lubricants etc). Those >>> do not get burned so they should get a refund on the carbon tax for the >>> amount of fuel they sequester (but still pay the carbon tax >>> generated when the raw oil was refined before being delivered to >>> them). ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 19:03:01 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174096981.367924.137250@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 15, 5:42 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:1173959513.942059.98020@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > On Mar 14, 9:09 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > >> wrote in message > > [...snip...] > > > wrong again! You don't get along with the world, you are to be the > > salt of the earth ... you are to set an example for these people ... > > you are to be not of this world ... > > > there was an interesting article about how light is slowing down > > and that at the universe beginning it and time may have been > > accelerated, so your so-called 6 billion years might have happened > > in a thousand years time ... so 6000 years today might have > > been 6 billion years early on ... > > what a load of crap... Agreed. > > I will trust God on these matters since He wrote the Bible ... > > science knows NOTHING about the universe, they can't even > > figure out things here yet ... Bob, have you heard of technology? Science knows enough to make things that work. Please, give it a rest. > > Like I said before, I am a practicing Christian (Lutheran) but do not > believe that the bible is literally true. The bible was written by inspired > people who were doing the best they could with the information available at > the time. Most people are born into (rather than choosing) these dogmatic Doing their best with what? If you have to pick which parts are true and which aren't, what's the point? > philosophies. Other crafty people use them to manipulate us into going to > war, killing fags, etc. > > Religion made 100% perfect sense as a child but some parts are now suspect > as an adult: for example, God is all powerful (created the universe etc.) > but some guy now says that God told him to tell "me" to be part of a holy > war. What a load of crap... > > > > > now we may learn more when someone discovers some > > dilithium crystals so we can get spock to help build a > > starship ... otherwise we can't even get a man to mars ... > > > and you better hurry before him and kirk dies, because > > you already lost scotty and they are the only hope left! :) > > I'm not even sure what this star ship stuff means. Well, I'm certainly ready for Star Trek medicine! Bones waves a little probe over your chest, gives you a shot right through your shirt sleeve, and your good to go (well, much of the time)! > > Science is a pragmatic process to collect information and build theories to > describe how everything in the universe works. The computer you are using > right now would be considered witchcraft 200 years ago but today we all > accept it as understandable technology. We don't have all the answers now > but science will provide more answers in the future provided we don't turf > it all for some religious dogma. Bob: You wouldn't have much luck trying to build a computer with knowledge you gained reading the bible! > > ### > > Now let me pass on something that's been in the back of my mind since > college days.Maxwellunified electricity and magnetism into the > electromagnetic theory. Anyone who has studied this knows that theelectric > field propagates at 90 degrees to themagneticfield. Yet in some sense they > are both manifestations of the same thing but separated in time. Einstein What do you mean by "separated in time"? The propogate together. Changes in one generates the other and vice versa. Light waves are an important solution of the Maxwell equations. (And I mean light in the physics sense: radio waves, microwaves, infrared, visible light, ultra violet, X-rays, and gamma rays. They're all the same thing but of different wavelengths. Of course, their interaction with matter varies a lot, which is why they appear to be different things. > did the same thing in special relativity with mass and energy. In general Well, in one sense, no. It turns out that matter is just another form of energy. There used to be two separate conservation laws: conservation of matter and conservation of energy. Now it's just conservation of energy, since matter can be converted into kinetic energy and vice versa, but the total energy remains the same. In another, sort of yes: When an object acquires energy (say by being propelled), its mass increases, but this mass is not "matter". One must be a little careful here. > relativity he unified space and time into something called space-time. > Quantum mechanics tells us that particles exhibit wave-particle duality. So > the universe around us doesn't seem to be just one thing, but usually two. > > To me it "feels" like man has both material and spiritual components. So > maybe we would be doing the creator a huge disservice by choosing "religion > over science" or "science over religion". It seems to me that the most > balanced people this side of Y2K have one foot in each world. And how do you choose your religion? > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:13:08 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45FB4EB4.1C80215D@spam.comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article <45FA04DF.A69E5D6F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > > > That's like trying to plan for a nulcear holocaust, or volcanic obliteration. > > > > Deal with it when/if it happens. For now, get over it. > > I'll never be a Boy Scout, but even a child could see that's > a defeatist attitude that could wipe us out. Hardly. There's a poster here whose .sig reads something like this: "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist." Defeatist? Not even one iota. Feel free to worry yourself sick about things you cannot influence, of course. You have that right. I choose to enjoy life, even in this goofed up, upside-down world. Could this world be better? Certainly. Am I going to let that dampen my spirit? Not even one iota. I'll help where I can, but I will not fret in the least to discover that I am powerless in most areas of life and reality. Let God be God, let creation be creation and let reality be reality. Life's too short. Get over it. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:06:02 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45FB4D09.C938E830@spam.comcast.net> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > > In article <45FA04DF.A69E5D6F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >> > >> In article <45F88DDC.8CEC5D6D@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >> >> > >> >> In article <45F74C0E.82DC5477@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > >> >> >Bob Koehler wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> In article <55mc3uF25ogesU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > >> >> >> with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > >> >> >> aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. > >> >> > > >> >> >The probability of that is close to nil. Climate change on that scale takes > >> >> >hundreds of generations, many centuries even, without cosmic intervention. > >> >> > > >> >> If the methane hydrates were destabalised the effect would be pretty rapid. > >> >> Methane is about 60 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than CO2 but would > >> >> only remain in the atmosphere for about 10 years whereas CO2 remains in the > >> >> atmosphere for about 100 years. > >> >> Methane hydrates occur extensively all over the world and frozen methane > >> >> hydrates can contain 170 times their own volume of methane. > >> >> > >> >> see > >> >> > >> >> http://www.hydrogen.co.uk/h2_now/journal/articles/3_Methane.htm > >> > > >> >Nothing new. > >> > > >> >Neither is climatic change. It's going to happen. Would have happened even if > >> >humans had not evolved or developed mechanized industry. > >> > > >> >It will run its course. This is inevitable and inescapable. > >> > > >> >Let's all just get over it and get back to business providing for our families. > >> > > >> If it happens then it is highly unlikely that most of humanity would be able to > >> get back to the business of providing for their families. > > > >That's like trying to plan for a nulcear holocaust, or volcanic obliteration. > > > You mean like > > Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaties > Nuclear test bans > Strategic Arms Limitation Talks > Hotlines between America and Russia > etc David C. called it right - not really worth much ex post facto... The REAL trick is to understand an important distinction expressed in the Serentity Prayer: "Lord, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Change the planet? Unless you control the nukes personally, not likely. Change the Sun? Not likely. Prevent a volcanic cataclysm? Not likely. Get over it. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:18:39 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45FB4FFF.CF4B4534@spam.comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article <45FA057E.A31A3D9F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > >> > It will run its course. This is inevitable and inescapable. > >> > >> So is rain, drought, and wind. We've been doing things about them > >> for ages. > > > > Really? Gee - I thought "The Weather Machine" was just an animator's invention > > in an UnderDog cartoon... > > I watched Underdog in the comfort of a row house. The rain and wind > were outdoors. Effective irrigation to combat drought goes back > quite some time, according to archeological evidence. How much of that would survive: ...and nuclear holocaust? ...a seismic/volcanic/comsic cataclysm? > You don't need science fiction to fight the weather, you need a good > coat. ...and food, shelter, clean water, ... How much of that would survive: ...and nuclear holocaust? ...a seismic/volcanic/comsic cataclysm? > Climate change is harder, you have to look at local contributions to > a global problem and address them. That helps. Then you have to > work on nature's contribution. I think during the last ice age the > local solution was called "fire". Perhaps we can do better next time > around. Interesting thought. How do we stop glaciers that can carve away the earth by the cubic mile? (the few of us that survive, that is.) -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:50:22 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <6q6dnZUckLbyymbYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com> Arne Vajhøj wrote: ... >> While too many adults may suffer from similar deficiencies (and while >> this may be evident in AMD's stock-price gyrations), more responsible >> individuals tend to dominate purchasing decisions in the areas most >> important to AMD's continued health. > > It was not Opteron that made AMD successful last couple of > year. It was Athlon X2. I'm afraid that's incorrect: X2 sales until *very* recently likely were pretty insignificant compared with Athlon64 and Sempron sales, and while X2s had considerably higher ASPs that probably wasn't nearly enough to let them generate competitive profits. The vast majority of AMD's revenue, and the large majority of its profits, have come from Athlon64s, Semprons, and Opterons. The first two of these were what propelled AMD to around 50% of the U.S. desktop market (and low-power versions made it much more of a player in the laptop market as well); the third was what moved AMD from *Who?" in the server market to around a 25% share (again, likely generating far more profit than X2s have). Because X2s are neither fish nor fowl. They may make the kiddies drool, but gaming is only *beginning* to make significant use of the performance of more than one thread - and for single-threaded performance Athlon64 remains more cost-effective (and had a slightly higher top end as well until very recently). And if you're looking at multi-thread workloads, you're usually looking as a platform better suited to Opterons (given their scalability in socket count). Core2Duos are such a major hit because they out-perform their *single-core* predecessors by a significant margin on single-threaded workloads, and let Intel compete with AMD again. X2s enjoyed no such advantage over their single-core siblings - in fact, they lagged a bit behind. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:59:01 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: AXP 150 available and probably cheap Message-ID: <45FB4B65.10DC7DF2@spam.comcast.net> tadamsmar wrote: > > On Feb 7, 4:44 pm, "tadamsmar" wrote: > > On Feb 5, 8:50 am, "tadamsmar" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 9:00 pm, David J Dachtera > > > wrote: > > > > > > By the way: Before you junk the 150, see if you can offer it to the community. I > > > > wouldn't mind having a spare. > > > > > I seem to be bound by red-tape. It will be surplused. I think it > > > will go up for sale at auction in the Research Triangle Park (RTP) in > > > NC. It will be on a palette with a bunch of PCs most likely, but > > > there should be an itemized list of the contents of the pallet. > > > > > I am trying to figure out where the auctions are held and how to get > > > announcements in advance of the pallet inventories. > > > > > Some of the guys I work with have gone to the auctions in the past but > > > the system and location may have changed since then. > > > > > They said that a pallet might sell for $10. Even if it bids up too > > > high, you can just go to the buyer of the pallet and offer to buy the > > > AXP 150. > > > > > I may just go buy the thing and make it available to the community if > > > I can figure out how to do it. > > > > > It will most likely come without the PAKs, I don't know of a way to > > > sell them and we might be able to use them on another system. > > > > > I am planning to delete everything on the disks before I surplus it, > > > but I am not sure what I am legally obligated to do. Anyway, if you > > > have the CDs you should be able to load another OS. > > > > > Are you located near the RTP? > > > > The auctions are announced at: > > > > www.gsaauctions.gov > > > > I would assume it will be in North Carolina some time in the near > > future. > > > > I deleted all the licenses but left on the operating system so people > > could confirmed it worked at the auction inspection if they cared to > > do so and had the minimal possible password guessing skills :).- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > They picked up the APX150 this week, so I guess it could appear on the > auction site soon: > > www.gsaauctions.gov > > It in North Carolina, Durham or RTP area. Is there any money to be recycling old CRT monitors? They sure have a LOT of 'em! -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 12:49:28 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: Climatology was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174074568.452918.210710@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Mar 16, 3:30 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Dr. Dweeb wrote: > > There no sreasonable argument not to accept this document as an information > > source, as long as the basic research that it summarizes is referenced > > accurately, and attributed so that the curious reader can delve into the > > details > > The bible may be the history's best seller ever. But have you considered the > possibility that it is a work of fiction redacted by 12 enterprising guys back > then ? > > Consider the old testament. Who wrote that ? While the story of the jewish > exodus from egypt may have historical precedents, the actual story may have been > significantly embelished. have you decided to ever examine the real Mt Siani evidence w/pictures at www.jimandpenny.com www.wyattmuseum.com and other sites? Have you ever considered why the apostles and all those people buried in the catacombs in Rome would allow themselves to be mauled by lions and worse when all they had to do is deny that Christ was not the Son of God ... History and archaeology over and over today is confirming the Bible as an accurate historical book ... Have you examined all the evidence from science today that confirm creation? If you would, you would not have posted what you just did unless you were either in a state of denial or an idiot ... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 13:49:31 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: Climatology was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1174078171.891115.7300@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 16, 3:59 pm, Doc wrote: > b...@instantwhip.com wrote innews:1174074568.452918.210710@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com: > > > > >www.jimandpenny.com > >www.wyattmuseum.com > > > > > If you would, you would not have posted what you just did > > unless you were either in a state of denial or an idiot ... > > You're a fine one to call people an idiot Bob, I've crossposted this as I > know a few people who would probably like to debunk your Mount Siani links. > HiEv? > > Religion is private, like your testicles. Bring it out in public and > expect ridicule. > > Doc. you can't debunk it, becuase it is all there fenced in by the Saudi government ,,, and they will not let anyone with any knowledge in to examine it ... even top brass from the smithsinian were denied. It is all there with hi 8 footage to boot ... the altar of the golden calf (egyptian cattle petrogliffs) boundary markers the split rock at Horeb the cave of Elijah Moses altar cleft rock with a tree between it! burnt rock peaks not volcanic but solid granite burnt outside crossing point with markers on shore by Solomon chariot wheels in the bottom of the gulf of aquaba and bones! underwater landbridge rising up from the depths cedar tree up to 4,000 years old (burning bush?) bitter springs of Marah 70 palms and 12 springs of Elim Moses caves in Al Bad (city of Jethro) bedouins confirming everything acacia wood trees (used to build the ark) quail kilns, pottery, egyptian arrowheads there is no denying fact, except for denial or stupidity ... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 10:56:56 -0700 From: "tadamsmar" Subject: How many license units required for a DS15? Message-ID: <1174067816.784322.252980@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> Is there a table of required license units anywhere? I want to see if some old licenses that I have for dead Alphas will add up to cover a DS15. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 12:48:39 -0500 From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Message-ID: In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > > My reply was with regards to JF's comments on the OpenVMS roadmap > documents and whether they should be considered legally binding or not. > I see. In which case I will just point you to DEC's actions regarding the PDP-10 line in which they guaranteed 5 years of active development after the cancellation and a further 5 years of support after that. There was a document on this in the DEC support databases at one time, but I can't find it in ITRC so it must have got lost during the transfer of the support databases (although there are actually some PDP-10 related support articles in the ITRC database). Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP If Google's motto is "don't be evil", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:42:47 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Message-ID: <92abe$45fae552$cef8887a$21030@TEKSAVVY.COM> Main, Kerry wrote: > My reply was with regards to JF's comments on the OpenVMS roadmap > documents and whether they should be considered legally binding or not. The problem with VMS is that while very neat, its roadmap is meaningless from a commitment point of view. With Microsoft, you don't really have to wonder whether they will stop developping and marketing windows or not. You don't need commitments for future development of Windows. And with Windows, you don't need to worry about the platform being pulled from under Microsoft's rug. With VMS, there are still a lot of uncertainties with regards to HP's true commitment. The fact that HP refuses to commit to port VMS to another platform when IA64 is retired is a very very bad aspect in terms of trusting the vendor. Microsoft would have no problems promising to port Windows to whatever becomes the 8086's successor as industry standard. Lets face it, a large portion of the revenus generated by VMS are for "legacy" VAX systems stuck at 5.5-2 or earlier. All of those are slated to be replaced by a different platform eventually. Those who haven't upgraded to Alpha yet aren't going to upgrade to current versions of VMS. When their factories are shutdown or rebuilt, totally new systems wil be brought in. If you were to remove all the VAX support revenus today, would HP still be so interested in continued spending for VMS ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:04:47 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Power Consumption Message-ID: <458dd$45faf888$cef8887a$2420@TEKSAVVY.COM> Paul Sture wrote: > John's idea of Power over Ethernet looks appealing to me. There is a > standard in force, although I note that there isn't an official standard > for PoE Plus yet. Cisco has many products already that provides power over ethernert. But it is designed for low power stuff like phones, cameras. Not quite the sam ballpark as powering a server or disk drives. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 2007 18:38:52 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Power Consumption (was: Re: AMD's well may be running dry) Message-ID: <1174095532.148166.27270@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 14, 1:16 pm, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Andrew wrote: > > Now you can understand Sun's motivation in this. The T1000/T2000 are > > very very very likely to score whatever the highest efficiency grade > > is... > > It's as much about competition and marketing as anything else. > > Yes, efficiency factors in just like having a portable operating > system platform definition has its benefits, but making money and > marketeering factor in, too. > > If a vendor lock-out or a vendor lock-in exists or can be created, it > will almost certainly be used in a competitive situation. And these may > or may not be green -- there have been examples of so-called green > initiatives that have been inefficient, wasteful, energy-intensive or > polluting. > > Eco-friendly has turned into the antiseptic hand soap or the latest > in the colored-ribbon-for-something marketeering. Usually with just > enough of a fig leaf involved to avoid charges of crass commercialism. > > "Oh, how can so-and-so be against [insert strawman]?" > > So what percentage of power would be reduced by, say, solid state > disks replacing mechanical disks, or by better-integrated water cooling > or other technologies into new systems. The vendor marketeering of late > often focuses on the processors, but where's all the power really going > inside a typical computer? > > Spinning down disks, or moving to more efficient technologies, or > approaches such as the efficiencies gained from shared infrastructures > -- bigger fans or power supplies at efficient loads, for instance. > > And then there are the occasional design "surprises." Halting a > processor can require more power than running it an idle loop, for instance. > > If there's a straw-man argument that you can raise in marketing, you > can bet it will be used -- something that allows you to characterize > another organization, entity or product as inferior, wasteful, evil or > any other currently-derogatory term. This is all basic marketing. > > Pardon my cynicism. > > --www.HoffmanLabs.com > Services for OpenVMS Power consumption and the amount of heat generated pretty much track one to one. All the power eventually ends up as heat (in the case of electronics due to electrical resistance and in the case of moving mechanical parts, friction). So if one component is emitting heat at twice the rate as another, it is also using twice the power. For example, 15 100-watt light bulbs emit the same amount of heat as a 1500-watt space heater, assuming the light from the bulbs doesn't escape the room. The light is absorbed by matter and its energy is converted into heat. Humans emit an average of maybe 100 to 150 watts worth of heat. This is why a small room with many people in it gets very warm! This is also why the lighting dept. of a store is usually very warm. I can't answer precisely what components emit how much heat, but the need for a fan to cool the processor means it likely uses a very significant amount of the total power. Once disks are up and spinning they probably use very little energy to keep spinning. Moving the heads will of course use some energy. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:32:16 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Shopping cart that works on VMS Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Cayemberg [mailto:keith.cayemberg@arcor.de]=20 > Sent: March 15, 2007 1:06 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Shopping cart that works on VMS >=20 > On Mar 13, 3:14 pm, Chuck Aaron wrote: > > If anyone is running web applications on VMS and using > > a shopping cart, can you tell me what shopping cart you > > are using or might recommend? > > > > Thanks. >=20 > Please see... >=20 > http://www.oscommerce.com/ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/OSCOMMERCE/ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_9482.html >=20 > Cheers! >=20 > Keith Cayemberg >=20 Keith .. Nice to see you back .. As usual, great pointers. :-) Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:39:04 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Shopping cart that works on VMS Message-ID: <45fb46ae$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Chuck Aaron wrote: > If anyone is running web applications on VMS and using > a shopping cart, can you tell me what shopping cart you > are using or might recommend? J2EE or PHP or Perl CGI or ... ? Arne ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.151 ************************