INFO-VAX Fri, 27 Apr 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 229 Contents: Alternative to (Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha) Re: Alternative to (Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha) Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha Re: dtlogin and $HOME/.dtsession equivalents? Re: dtlogin and $HOME/.dtsession equivalents? Free used AlphaServers Re: Medical software vendor says it won't support OS on Itanium-based servers Re: Medical software vendor says it won't support OS on Itanium-based servers se Re: Neocons destroying America Re: Neocons destroying America Re: Neocons destroying America Re: OpenVMS Boot Camp Confusion Re: OT: EHR, etc. PDP/RSX FORTRAN 77 example to map a file to memory Re: PDP/RSX FORTRAN 77 example to map a file to memory ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:21:47 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Alternative to (Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha) Message-ID: Hi Josh, > I'm open to alternate ways to do this if there are > suggestions, but it would be nice to stay with using the COBOL to > actually access the datafiles (particularly for writes) because that > way a minimum of training and changes are required to staff to > implement the actual data changes. There has been recent discussion in HP's ITRC forum about a similar COBOL requirement and IMO you could do a lot worse than to read, fully, my replies to each of the following threads. (Currently the last replies in each thread) http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1110572 http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1095466 The attachment to the first reply contains all the JavaScript and HTML needed to put a browser-based GUI front-end on a VMS COBOL Queue Management example application. The attachment to the second reply contains *ALL* of the code that your application development staff would need to supply on the server side. Just six User Action Routines in the form of a Shareable Image, is all you have to provide for any VMS server application. (Whether you want to talk to it via a Browser, .NET, Java, another VMS box, or even using DECnet as a transport) Your COBOL does not change - Your server development tools do not change. You code is informed of the VMS username on whose behalf a request is being made, and a matching Persona is made available for you if needed. You get a full-duplex, conversational pipe with which to communicate with your client, and server affinity is completely under your control. All network-connection management, multi-threading, and server-process load-balancing is done for you. Anyway, If you'd like to see what it looks like in action (and especially how easy a platform it is to develop on) then send me an e-mail. Cheers Richard Maher wrote in message news:1177626898.793493.72190@r35g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > I would like to implement web services and I know that Apache Axis > provides easy ways to do this. > > I've done some looking through the website that you sent regarding > WASD and I can't see analogous utilities for web services. Any > suggestions? > > I want to use web services (i.e. SOA-style) to pass calls through to > some compiled COBOL programs which will in turn access flat files on > the VMS system. I'm open to alternate ways to do this if there are > suggestions, but it would be nice to stay with using the COBOL to > actually access the datafiles (particularly for writes) because that > way a minimum of training and changes are required to staff to > implement the actual data changes. It's also less risky in terms of > possible corruption of data. > > Thanks, > > Josh > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:39:53 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Alternative to (Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha) Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:21:47 -0700, Richard Maher = wrote: > Hi Josh, > >> I'm open to alternate ways to do this if there are >> suggestions, but it would be nice to stay with using the COBOL to >> actually access the datafiles (particularly for writes) because that >> way a minimum of training and changes are required to staff to >> implement the actual data changes. > > There has been recent discussion in HP's ITRC forum about a similar CO= BOL > requirement and IMO you could do a lot worse than to read, fully, my = > replies > to each of the following threads. (Currently the last replies in each > thread) > > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=3D= 1110572 > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=3D= 1095466 > > The attachment to the first reply contains all the JavaScript and HTML= > needed to put a browser-based GUI front-end on a VMS COBOL Queue = > Management > example application. The attachment to the second reply contains *ALL*= of > the code that your application development staff would need to supply = on = > the > server side. Just six User Action Routines in the form of a Shareable = = > Image, > is all you have to provide for any VMS server application. (Whether yo= u = > want > to talk to it via a Browser, .NET, Java, another VMS box, or even usin= g > DECnet as a transport) > > Your COBOL does not change - Your server development tools do not chan= ge. > You code is informed of the VMS username on whose behalf a request is = = > being > made, and a matching Persona is made available for you if needed. You = = > get a > full-duplex, conversational pipe with which to communicate with your = > client, > and server affinity is completely under your control. All = > network-connection > management, multi-threading, and server-process load-balancing is done= = > for > you. > > Anyway, If you'd like to see what it looks like in action (and especia= lly > how easy a platform it is to develop on) then send me an e-mail. > > Cheers Richard Maher I have on my agendum (notice correct use of singular) to do the same for= = PL/I, but we are going one step further by generating Java object classes = (through the good offices of SDL) for PL/I entry declarations, thus faciltating canni= ng (i.e., jar-ing) legacy apps. The same could be done for Cobol. > > wrote in message > news:1177626898.793493.72190@r35g2000prh.googlegroups.com... >> I would like to implement web services and I know that Apache Axis >> provides easy ways to do this. >> >> I've done some looking through the website that you sent regarding >> WASD and I can't see analogous utilities for web services. Any >> suggestions? >> >> I want to use web services (i.e. SOA-style) to pass calls through to >> some compiled COBOL programs which will in turn access flat files on >> the VMS system. I'm open to alternate ways to do this if there are >> suggestions, but it would be nice to stay with using the COBOL to >> actually access the datafiles (particularly for writes) because that >> way a minimum of training and changes are required to staff to >> implement the actual data changes. It's also less risky in terms of >> possible corruption of data. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Josh >> > > -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:57:27 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:08:15 -0700, wrote: > I am interested in running Apache on OpenVMS (Alpha platform), but the > sysadmins I'm working with have told me that they are running on > OpenVMS version 7.2. HP's website on Apache (and their port to VMS, > Secure Web Server) > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_download.html > > indicates that you need OpenVMS version 7.3-1 at a minimum. > > Is there any way to run Apache on 7.2, or will standard Apache run on > 7.2, i.e. not HP's ported version? What would be some of the issues in > getting Apache to run on 7.2, if possible? > > Thanks! > > Josh > Josh, do yourself a big favor, forget about Apache or SWS and use something better which was also designed for VMS http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ It is free, but you can optionally pay for support, I do. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 2007 15:34:58 -0700 From: jrandrew@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha Message-ID: <1177626898.793493.72190@r35g2000prh.googlegroups.com> I would like to implement web services and I know that Apache Axis provides easy ways to do this. I've done some looking through the website that you sent regarding WASD and I can't see analogous utilities for web services. Any suggestions? I want to use web services (i.e. SOA-style) to pass calls through to some compiled COBOL programs which will in turn access flat files on the VMS system. I'm open to alternate ways to do this if there are suggestions, but it would be nice to stay with using the COBOL to actually access the datafiles (particularly for writes) because that way a minimum of training and changes are required to staff to implement the actual data changes. It's also less risky in terms of possible corruption of data. Thanks, Josh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:04:54 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: dtlogin and $HOME/.dtsession equivalents? Message-ID: "Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski" wrote in message news:20070426204948.6c241a08.m_roguski@yahoo.com... >> Are you sure you have WINDOW_SYSTEM sysgen parameter set to 1 ? > > We're talking about XDM, that's other can of worms. Local X spawns > plain excellent. Ah. You need to setup XDM & XDMCP - this is provided by the TCPIP kit (as opposed to the X11 kit - go figure). You need to enable it in @TCPIP$CONFIG after modifying a data file. I did this eons ago once to test it - and it all worked OK. If you are using TCPIP then you need to make sure that you have the equivalent of a host list entry (in the SECURITY icon this time ;-). I used a PC running an X11 emulator, but I've heard of others using Linux. If you just (from a local terminal/terminal window) do a $ set display/create/trans=xxx/node=xxx ! change xxx as appropriate $ mc decw$startlogin will start up a login session running on a remote display - provided you have access to it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:35:36 +0200 From: Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski Subject: Re: dtlogin and $HOME/.dtsession equivalents? Message-ID: <20070426213536.f8087b2a.m_roguski@yahoo.com> > I have no idea why you need to know this however. What are you trying > to do with it? OK, elaborating: I want the xdm to use decw$loginout as login manager instead of that ugly login screen. I know the "want xdm to use" part, but I didn't know what name should I put in configuration (until your last post, and gonna try it now on Jensen). As for desktop sessions, well, that's one way to do it but this wasn't meant to be user editable file (rather written by session management). I just remembered though: in very, very old CDE the one I was looking for was called ".dtprofile" (later it was split into .dtprofile and .dtsession)- maybe that rings a bell. Rambo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:42:00 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Free used AlphaServers Message-ID: Please email me if you'd like a free, used AlphaServer _and_ you are able to pick it up in Orange, California. The AlphaServers were working fine, but the disk drives had to be removed and destroyed in accordance with corporate policy. These are pedestal systems and at lease a couple of them have video adapters so they will run DEC Windows. Tad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:14:42 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Medical software vendor says it won't support OS on Itanium-based servers Message-ID: <5789d$4630ec59$cef8887a$23748@TEKSAVVY.COM> BaxterD@tessco.com wrote: > HP seems to thing that OpenVMS loyalty translates into "HP" > loyalty. I think they are in for a shocker. Remember the Stallard May 7th memo that clearly stated that HP expected VMS customers to migrate to HP-UX eventually ? The memo may have been removed/changed, but I strongly suspect that HP's top level people still believe this so when the time comes to negotiate with people like Cerner, they will push for HP-UX. It would be interesting to see what percentage of SWIFT banks are still HP customers after SWIFT was told that VMS had no future. The ones I know moved to a Sun solution. Perhaps Sue could research this and provide top HP management with numbers showing that pushing people to switch not only platform (IA64) but also OS is a recipe for losing many customers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:38:32 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Medical software vendor says it won't support OS on Itanium-based servers se Message-ID: <46315418.ABC0ACD7@spam.comcast.net> Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: > > In article <1177583349.584409.191080@c18g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, Andrew writes: > >In reality the SuperDome memory bandwidth is probably not a > >constraining issue for applications like Cerner which do require good > >memory bandwidth but not the full capacity of a SuperDome. > > > >It is highly likely that current Cerner customers if they are maxing > >out GS1280's are doing so because they are running out of CPU > >capacity, the 1.3Ghz CPU's in the GS1280 are no longer very > >competitive in terms of Integer performance, as an example the latest > >Itaniums are at least 2x as fast. > > What I've been told is, that the CPUs are NOT (yet) maxed out, but the > alignment fault penalties on the Itanics are killing (CERNER and others). > So, it is (still) a memory issue (and the Alpha is still better there). > > So, statement vs. statement. What is real? Alignment faults are a separate issue. Here, we are talking about documented, observed memory access constraints. The documentation has been presented publicly since the HP Tech Forum 2005 and continues to be presented audiences world-wide. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:06:16 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Neocons destroying America Message-ID: <58b6c$4630ea60$cef8887a$23257@TEKSAVVY.COM> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > I seem to recall that the army tried to restore electric power, water, > etc, only to find that as fast as they fixed things, people would > sabotage the water pumps, steal the carburators off the generators, etc. It was well documented that the electric grid in Iraq was already extremely fragile and had insufficient capacity. Yet, Rumsfeld, wantintg to prove his gonads were still working, ordered hsi big fancy high tech bombs to target these facilities as well as all telecom facilities, and all government buildings except for the oil ministry. In terms of reconstruction, it shouldn't be the invador that rebuilds. The invador should hire local contractors to rebuild. But the Bush regime spent the money on Haliburton and Blackwater (and many other US firms) instead of spending the money in Iraq. From a taxpaper point of view, it means that a lotof the money actually stays in the USA and until Haliburton moves its headquarters to Dubai, it still pays taxes to the USA government. However, it doesn't actually do anything to help rebuild Iraq. Anyone who has read the newamericancentury.org 1998 memo will know that everything that has happened since 9-11 had been planned in advance. 9-11 was the convenient terrorist attack that allows Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz to implement their agenda. That included killing the deal with North Korea (which was spun into North Korea not respecting the deal). Note that "Axis of evil" was actially coined in that 1998 memo. You'll also note that following 9-11, Iran had made great advances in normalising relations with USA and helped secure borders in Afghanistan etc. But in order to implement the 1998 plan which had already labeled Iran as part of the axis of evil, the USA simply found some ship with arms bound for Palestine and accused Iran of sending arms to Palestinians, and voila, Iran is instantly back in the list of bad guys. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:05:48 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Neocons destroying America Message-ID: <46315A7C.2FF4E574@spam.comcast.net> Dan O'Reilly wrote: > [snip] Aw, Dan! I alway had such respect for you as a technical person... -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:34:11 -0600 From: Dan O'Reilly Subject: Re: Neocons destroying America Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20070426222249.02fb0350@192.168.0.11> At 08:05 PM 4/26/2007, David J Dachtera wrote: >Dan O'Reilly wrote: > > [snip] > >Aw, Dan! I alway had such respect for you as a technical person... Well, let me put it this way: I come from a military family. My son-in-law, a sergeant in the Army (the father of my grandchildren), is getting ready to deploy to Iraq for his second year-long tour there. I'll tell you a secret: these young kids believe in what they're doing. And I'll tell you another secret: what's going on in Iraq isn't what is being reported by the likes of PBS and Bill Moyers - or NBC, CBS or ABC, for that matter. And one more secret: these kids hate what they see being reported by the media in general, realizing that the media simply isn't telling the whole story or even a correct one. The left of the world has such blinding, unreasoning, vitriolic hate for Bush that they never let little things like the facts get in their way. This whole BS of "I support the troops but not the mission" is exactly that: BS. Or put another way: "I support fireman, just not them putting out a fire" - just as ridiculous a statement. Do I wish my son-in-law didn't have to go back in harm's way? Sure I do - but I'm as proud of him as I can be. Do I agree with everything the Bush administration has done? No, I don't. But I believe in what we're doing, and I believe in my country. That's good enough for me. Whether or not anybody else believes as I do is immaterial, and is a personal choice everybody is allowed to make. But given that this is a VMS group, I'll not say anything more on this, nor will I respond to any posts on this subject. This isn't a place for politics, it's a technical forum. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 2007 11:46:39 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot Camp Confusion Message-ID: <1177613199.529546.4530@b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Apr 25, 6:40 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > There's a rumour going around about up-and-coming HP "OpenVMS Boot Camp" > being the last one. > > As far as I can tell this is not true but a course by the same name is being > dropped by Parsec. > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com This is correct. The names are very similar the - OpenVMS ADVANCED TECHNICAL Bootcamp is still on in May with 169 sessions, 3 hands on rooms and so on. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:50:44 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OT: EHR, etc. Message-ID: <463156F4.6368801E@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > Well, the Electronic Health Record is not a "cure all", and cannot address the > > issues you cite unless the staff accompanies the patient to his new unit - which > > doesn't happen. > > Perhaps this is an issue IT cannot solve yet, but it is very important > to health care. If a guy has a broken leg, it doesn't matter. But if a > person's mental alertness is affected by the problem (such as urinary > infection for elderly people), knowing about periods of mental alertness > while at ER, as well as transfering the knowledge that came from the > family on the metal status of the patient prior to that incident is very > important to all the staff in the new ward to gauge the patient's > current status relative to the other experiences so far. Actually, that DATA *IS* carried forward. The experience of the ER caregivers is only recorded, not "psychically transferred". > > The Electronic Health Record adresses that concern, but also raises concern > > about protecting the patient's privacy. Hence access controls are emplaced. > > It seems to me that a lot of those thing are designed by people very > detached from actual emergency rooms (large consulting forms with big > fat contracts to generate books of documentation) as opposed to > designers who really know what should be done at the ground level. Actually, they are designed by healthcare professionals who consult with the areas of government which bring about the legislation. > > At some point, the Electronic Health Record may evolve to that level. We're > > already seeing some of this in the private sector. Wider acceptance will be > > subject to all the usual flap over HIPAA and information security beyond HIPAA. > > Well, once a patient check in, he/family should provide the OK to access > his/her records from another health care facility. Seems to me that this > should be automatic because in the end, doctors in the ER cannot really > make an good diagnostic if they do not have a patient's proper history. The "checks and balances" still are required by current legislation, however, and care givers cannot make certain assumptions without either the patient or that person's elected having a say in such matters. Living wills, limited powers of attorney and such, y'know... > > Realistically, the back-end servers ("tier 3" or "tier 2") really are > > transparent to the end user. The "user interface" ("tier 1") will be the issue. > > Obviously WhineBloze is not acceptable, yet it is ubiquitous. > > However, when you consider province wide systems like in Canada, the > provincial government is the one that signs the big IT contracts to > develop systems for hospitals. And they they to make "popular" decisions > instead of selecting obscure systems because they are better. I > underline OBSCURE here because this is what VMS is. In the case of > Québec, it is even worse because they really got burned by Compaq: they > signed a huge contract for Alpha servers deployers throughout the > province in February only to find Compaq announcing the end of Alpha on > the following June 25 a few months later. Stupidity knows no boundaries. > > Could we convince the industry to go with some other access model? Perhaps an > > x-based thin client invoking software on a secured "middle tier" server > > (instances, blade, etc.) (Gnome/KDE on *BSD, DECwindows on VMS, Gnome/KDE/X on > > AIX or Solaris, etc.) > > I agree. However, in the case of a province-wide system, should records > be distributed, but accessible from any centre/hospital, or should there > be one large central database that is fully redundant and available > 7/24/365 no matter what. (this would generate some heated discussions > about privacy). I should think that a distributed solution would be better to allow for redundancy, though it will likely be argued that redundancy increases the likelihood of a data security breach. > Anyhow, I have thought about you (since you are the health care guy on > COV) lately because I noticed a case where the hospital's system could > really be improved. The healthcare field is always looking for IT talent. Cerner is not held in irreproachable regard, for what that's worth (and I am aware more than one site at which Cerner is "on probation"). If you have a better idea, approach someone about it! -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:39:47 -0700 From: Jeff Cameron Subject: PDP/RSX FORTRAN 77 example to map a file to memory Message-ID: Another question from the Roaming Paleocybernetic Administrator, Now that I have my memory pool problems behind me, I have another task to which I need to solicit the help from all of you wonderful folks with PDP-11/RSX experience. I have a task to write a program to make small changes to a binary table stored in an RMS fixed record, sequential access file on a PDP-11 Running RSX-11M-Plus V4.6. The available languages are Macro-11 and FORTRAN 77 (I choose the latter). If I were on a VMS system, I would use the $CRMPSC System Service to map the file into my programs memory space. I believe there is a similar service in RSX, but I cannot seem to find it in the documentation. Does anyone have a FORTRAN example of doing this in RSX, or if not can anyone point me to the location of the documentation for the equivalent system service in RSX. If necessary, I can do direct reads and writes, but I would prefer not to. Thanks in Advance Jeff Cameron ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 2007 19:35:57 -0700 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: PDP/RSX FORTRAN 77 example to map a file to memory Message-ID: <1177641357.554397.270700@r35g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 26, 8:39 pm, Jeff Cameron wrote: > I have a task to write a program to make small changes to a binary table > stored in an RMS fixed record, sequential access file on a PDP-11 Running > RSX-11M-Plus V4.6. The available languages are Macro-11 and FORTRAN 77Uh... why not simply use RMS? Or for a sequential file use FCS? Pretty much the same FAB and RAB, $OPEN, $GET, $UPDATE... Simple enough from MACRO. For the level of RMS indicated you would not even need overlays to build in :-) (or use the supervisor mode resident library if that is set up) FORTRAN file IO should also work. And for a few bits to change, ZAP would my weapon of choice. Pre and Post data verification with DMP fwiw, Hein. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.229 ************************