INFO-VAX Thu, 03 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 242 Contents: detect unaligned data access Re: detect unaligned data access Re: detect unaligned data access Re: detect unaligned data access Re: detect unaligned data access Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? la-120 printers for sale Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Re: Motif routines uses by DECterms Re: numerical libraries on integrity RE: numerical libraries on integrity Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Re: SIMH default boot device (was Re: SIMH Ethernet problem) Re: SSH Keys for a heterogeneous Environment VMS contractor need in Southern CA. area ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 3 May 2007 09:14:52 -0700 From: Joshua Lehrer Subject: detect unaligned data access Message-ID: <1178208892.462057.299410@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> I would like to detect unaligned data access in my application on VMS and perhaps count them, or log it to a file. I know that one can do this in the VMS debugger with "set break/ unaligned" so there must be a way to programmatically detect unaligned data access. Can my C program install an AST or other handler to be triggered when an unaligned data access occurs? I can not seem to find any documentation telling me how to do this, but I'm not really sure where to look. joshua lehrer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:55:40 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: detect unaligned data access Message-ID: <8660a3a10705030955v205d3bc1gbe1cfaf410e42474@mail.gmail.com> On 3 May 2007 09:14:52 -0700, Joshua Lehrer wrote: > I would like to detect unaligned data access in my application on VMS > and perhaps count them, or log it to a file. > > I know that one can do this in the VMS debugger with "set break/ > unaligned" so there must be a way to programmatically detect unaligned > data access. > > Can my C program install an AST or other handler to be triggered when > an unaligned data access occurs? I can not seem to find any > documentation telling me how to do this, but I'm not really sure where > to look. > > joshua lehrer > > Not being a code-pounder, I may misunderstand your question: Are you looking for alignment faults as part of a migration to VMS on Integrity Servers? WWWebb ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 10:06:30 -0700 From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: detect unaligned data access Message-ID: <1178211989.681566.260910@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Joshua, please have a look at the $START_ALIGN_FAULT_REPORT (and related) system services. There is even a C example in the System Services Reference Manual. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 12:28:34 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: detect unaligned data access Message-ID: In article <1178208892.462057.299410@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Joshua Lehrer writes: > I would like to detect unaligned data access in my application on VMS > and perhaps count them, or log it to a file. > > I know that one can do this in the VMS debugger with "set break/ > unaligned" so there must be a way to programmatically detect unaligned > data access. You can tell the debugger to log what it's finding and you can put a go command on that break. Not the prettiest way to get what you want, but it's in there. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 20:46:58 +0300 From: "Guy Peleg" Subject: Re: detect unaligned data access Message-ID: <463a13cb$0$16399$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Joshua Lehrer" wrote in message news:1178208892.462057.299410@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >I would like to detect unaligned data access in my application on VMS > and perhaps count them, or log it to a file. > > I know that one can do this in the VMS debugger with "set break/ > unaligned" so there must be a way to programmatically detect unaligned > data access. No need to reinvent the wheel... Use the FLT extension in SDA SDA> FLT LOAD SDA> FLT START TRACE run your application SDA> FLT SHOW TRACE/SUMMARY ! summary display of all alignment faults SDA> FLT SHOW TRACE ! examine individual entries in the buffer. Guy Peleg BRUDEN-OSSG http://www.brudenossg.com > > Can my C program install an AST or other handler to be triggered when > an unaligned data access occurs? I can not seem to find any > documentation telling me how to do this, but I'm not really sure where > to look. > > joshua lehrer > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:05:56 +0200 From: "Zibri" Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <4639c28e$0$17940$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it> "Doug Kimball" wrote in message news:133euv7gd81ki66@corp.supernews.com... > So, what are your top three favorite movies, VMSophiles? We need a promo > for the upcoming HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua, and we would love your > input. Thanks! > > Doug Related Movies: Hackers Sneakers Antitrust Unrelated movie: Frankenstein Jr. (My personal favourite) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:52:59 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: "Zibri" wrote in message news:4639c28e$0$17940$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it... > "Doug Kimball" wrote in message > news:133euv7gd81ki66@corp.supernews.com... >> So, what are your top three favorite movies, VMSophiles? We need a promo >> for the upcoming HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua, and we would love your >> input. Thanks! >> >> Doug > > Related Movies: > > Hackers > Sneakers > Antitrust > > Unrelated movie: > > Frankenstein Jr. (My personal favourite) > > Hmmm. Interesting that the theme here so far seems to be mostly computer-related science fiction. No votes for say, Amilee? I might have expected some more offbeat suggestions like Eraserhead, Eating Raul, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, or To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar. Or science fiction cult films like The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Plan 9 from Outer Space, A Boy and His Dog, Barbarella, Earth Girls are Easy, and Flash Gordon (not to be confused with Flesh Gordon). Or the "classics" of sci-fi - The Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden Planet, Flowers for Algernon, The Andromeda Strain, A Clockwork Orange, 2001, (or less classic) The Forbin Project, War Games, Tron... Or the modern equivalents - Star Wars, The Fifth Element (my favorite), The Chronicles of Riddick, The Matrix, AI... But I vote for Kill Bill (Volume 1) - gotta love the 5.6.7.8's ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 08:13:21 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <1178205201.188155.71780@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On May 3, 7:52 am, "FredK" wrote: > Hmmm. Interesting that the theme here so far seems to be mostly > computer-related science fiction. No votes for say, Amilee? > > I might have expected some more offbeat suggestions like Eraserhead, Eating > Raul, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, or To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! > Julie Newmar. > > Or science fiction cult films like The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Plan 9 > from Outer Space, A Boy and His Dog, Barbarella, Earth Girls are Easy, and > Flash Gordon (not to be confused with Flesh Gordon). Good selection! RHPS is best in a live audience. Plan 9 is a classic only because it is so terribly bad (but is does have Boris!). I loved A Boy and His Dog and Earth Girls are Easy (good cast), too. > Or the "classics" of sci-fi - The Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden > Planet, Flowers for Algernon, The Andromeda Strain, A Clockwork Orange, > 2001, (or less classic) The Forbin Project, War Games, Tron... Or the > modern equivalents - Star Wars, The Fifth Element (my favorite), The > Chronicles of Riddick, The Matrix, AI... The Net was a good one like those. It's one false but on the verge of reality, you know some monopolistic company that is the primary gatekeeper to lots of government and corporate data... uh... wait... Office Space is a good one, too. I've felt like I've worked for a company like Innotek... Not that I would burn the place down or anything. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 11:30:11 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <8660a3a10705030830m4fabf734u38d0e93dba272545@mail.gmail.com> On 3 May 2007 08:13:21 -0700, davidc@montagar.com wrote: > On May 3, 7:52 am, "FredK" wrote: > > Hmmm. Interesting that the theme here so far seems to be mostly > > computer-related science fiction. No votes for say, Amilee? > > > > I might have expected some more offbeat suggestions like Eraserhead, Eating > > Raul, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, or To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! > > Julie Newmar. > > > > Or science fiction cult films like The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Plan 9 > > from Outer Space, A Boy and His Dog, Barbarella, Earth Girls are Easy, and > > Flash Gordon (not to be confused with Flesh Gordon). > > Good selection! RHPS is best in a live audience. Plan 9 is a classic > only because it is so terribly bad (but is does have Boris!). I loved > A Boy and His Dog and Earth Girls are Easy (good cast), too. > > > Or the "classics" of sci-fi - The Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden > > Planet, Flowers for Algernon, The Andromeda Strain, A Clockwork Orange, > > 2001, (or less classic) The Forbin Project, War Games, Tron... Or the > > modern equivalents - Star Wars, The Fifth Element (my favorite), The > > Chronicles of Riddick, The Matrix, AI... > > The Net was a good one like those. It's one false but on the verge of > reality, you know some monopolistic company that is the primary > gatekeeper to lots of government and corporate data... uh... wait... > > Office Space is a good one, too. I've felt like I've worked for a > company like Innotek... Not that I would burn the place down or > anything. > > You didn't use the right cover sheet on your TPS reports, David. WWWebb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 15:49:24 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2007 davidc@montagar.com wrote: > On May 3, 7:52 am, "FredK" wrote: >> Or science fiction cult films like The Rocky Horror Picture Show, >> Plan 9 from Outer Space, A Boy and His Dog, Barbarella, Earth Girls >> are Easy, and Flash Gordon (not to be confused with Flesh Gordon). > > Good selection! RHPS is best in a live audience. Plan 9 is a > classic only because it is so terribly bad (but is does have > Boris!). I loved A Boy and His Dog and Earth Girls are Easy (good > cast), too. What about Dark Star? -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:09:37 -0400 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <7dd80f60705030909m207d6c2bq77a2350bd95cde86@mail.gmail.com> On 5/3/07, Rob Brown wrote: > On Thu, 3 May 2007 davidc@montagar.com wrote: > > > On May 3, 7:52 am, "FredK" wrote: > >> Or science fiction cult films like The Rocky Horror Picture Show, > >> Plan 9 from Outer Space, A Boy and His Dog, Barbarella, Earth Girls > >> are Easy, and Flash Gordon (not to be confused with Flesh Gordon). > > > > Good selection! RHPS is best in a live audience. Plan 9 is a > > classic only because it is so terribly bad (but is does have > > Boris!). I loved A Boy and His Dog and Earth Girls are Easy (good > > cast), too. > > What about Dark Star? How about H2G2 (Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)? Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:21:01 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: "Ken Robinson" wrote in message news:7dd80f60705030909m207d6c2bq77a2350bd95cde86@mail.gmail.com... > On 5/3/07, Rob Brown wrote: >> On Thu, 3 May 2007 davidc@montagar.com wrote: >> >> > On May 3, 7:52 am, "FredK" wrote: >> >> Or science fiction cult films like The Rocky Horror Picture Show, >> >> Plan 9 from Outer Space, A Boy and His Dog, Barbarella, Earth Girls >> >> are Easy, and Flash Gordon (not to be confused with Flesh Gordon). >> > >> > Good selection! RHPS is best in a live audience. Plan 9 is a >> > classic only because it is so terribly bad (but is does have >> > Boris!). I loved A Boy and His Dog and Earth Girls are Easy (good >> > cast), too. >> >> What about Dark Star? > > How about H2G2 (Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)? > I threw out a short list of films, I could spend half the day or more just thinking of others (or tying to remember their names - like Liquid Sky as a twisted sci-fi cult classic). I would not have lumped H2G2 into it - perhaps the BBC series (but nobody asked about TV). Dark Star doesn't make my short list, maybe down the list a way. I've got some 700+ DVDs in my collection. ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 06:40:37 -0700 From: "rexdale1050@yahoo.ca" Subject: la-120 printers for sale Message-ID: <1178199637.109801.154870@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> i have 3 - la 120 dec dot matrix printers for sale. works fine also la - 75 printer not used very much . plus la-120 parts i have 3 spare la-120 . i have switched to hp laser jet printers. location toronto ont canada. i am not a dealer, 25 year loyal vms user. neil colt 416 - 535 - 7234 rexdale118@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 09:44:15 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Message-ID: In article <133idqs3vrncda2@corp.supernews.com>, "C.W.Holeman II" writes: >Doc wrote: >> "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote in >> news:133h7qcepn0ar65@news.supernews.com: >> >>> We own VMSUSER.COM > >Does anyone have a list VMS command file .COM domain names like: > > SYS$STARTUP.COM > TCPIP$PWIP_DRIVER_STARTUP.COM > The $ is not a valid character in an internet domain name. (Use of underscore is also not strictly allowed - though older DNS servers supported it.) Hence most of the VMS system file names would not be useable as domain names. To see what's left try dir sys$startup:*.com/excl=(*$*.com,*_*.com) dir sys$update:*.com/excl=(*$*.com,*_*.com) etc or dir sys$sysdevice:[000000...]*.com/excl=(*$*.com,*_*.com) David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >-- >C.W.Holeman II | cwhii@Julian5Locals.com-5 http://JulianLocals.com/cwhii > To only a fraction of the human race does God give the privilege of > earning one's bread doing what one would have gladly pursued free, for > passion. I am very thankful. The Mythical Man-Month Epilogue/F.P.Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 09:54:29 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >In article <133idqs3vrncda2@corp.supernews.com>, "C.W.Holeman II" writes: >>Doc wrote: >>> "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote in >>> news:133h7qcepn0ar65@news.supernews.com: >>> >>>> We own VMSUSER.COM >> >>Does anyone have a list VMS command file .COM domain names like: >> >> SYS$STARTUP.COM >> TCPIP$PWIP_DRIVER_STARTUP.COM >> > >The $ is not a valid character in an internet domain name. >(Use of underscore is also not strictly allowed - though older DNS servers >supported it.) > >Hence most of the VMS system file names would not be useable as domain names. >To see what's left try > >dir sys$startup:*.com/excl=(*$*.com,*_*.com) > >dir sys$update:*.com/excl=(*$*.com,*_*.com) > >etc > > >or > >dir sys$sysdevice:[000000...]*.com/excl=(*$*.com,*_*.com) > I just tried that last command on a VMS 8.3 Alpha system with ODS-5 and hard-links enabled on the system disk and with GNV installed got as far as Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.GNV.SYS0.SYSCOMMON.GNV.SYS0.SYSCOMMON.GN V.SYS0.SYSCOMMON.GNV.SYS0.SYSCOMMON.GNV.mnt.DATA1.HTTP_SERVER.ANALOG.ANALOG-5_0. SRC.LIBPNG] MAKE.COM;1 before I gave up. Looks like it would have looped around forever. Is there a patch for this or a new qualifier so that directory listings don't follow links forever ? David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > > >David Webb >Security team leader >CCSS >Middlesex University > > > >>-- >>C.W.Holeman II | cwhii@Julian5Locals.com-5 http://JulianLocals.com/cwhii >> To only a fraction of the human race does God give the privilege of >> earning one's bread doing what one would have gladly pursued free, for >> passion. I am very thankful. The Mythical Man-Month Epilogue/F.P.Brooks ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 08:42:48 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article <133idqs3vrncda2@corp.supernews.com>, "C.W.Holeman II" writes: >>Doc wrote: >>> "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote in >>> news:133h7qcepn0ar65@news.supernews.com: >>> >>>> We own VMSUSER.COM >> >>Does anyone have a list VMS command file .COM domain names like: >> >> SYS$STARTUP.COM >> TCPIP$PWIP_DRIVER_STARTUP.COM >> > > The $ is not a valid character in an internet domain name. > (Use of underscore is also not strictly allowed - though older DNS servers > supported it.) It's the other way around. RFC 1034: Various characters are illegal in a domain name. RFC 2181: There are no illegal characters in a domain name. Dollar sign and underscore are perfectly fine. BIND 4 didn't much like underscores as I recall. BIND 9 is perfectly happy with them and cleaves to the "no characters are illegal" interpretation. RFC 2821 is still picky about the valid character set for domain names that are used to refer to SMTP servers, but that doesn't make the domain names illegal per se. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 16:19:08 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Message-ID: In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: >In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >> In article <133idqs3vrncda2@corp.supernews.com>, "C.W.Holeman II" writes: >>>Doc wrote: >>>> "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote in >>>> news:133h7qcepn0ar65@news.supernews.com: >>>> >>>>> We own VMSUSER.COM >>> >>>Does anyone have a list VMS command file .COM domain names like: >>> >>> SYS$STARTUP.COM >>> TCPIP$PWIP_DRIVER_STARTUP.COM >>> >> >> The $ is not a valid character in an internet domain name. >> (Use of underscore is also not strictly allowed - though older DNS servers >> supported it.) > >It's the other way around. > >RFC 1034: Various characters are illegal in a domain name. > >RFC 2181: There are no illegal characters in a domain name. Dollar sign >and underscore are perfectly fine. > >BIND 4 didn't much like underscores as I recall. >BIND 9 is perfectly happy with them and cleaves to the "no characters >are illegal" interpretation. > >RFC 2821 is still picky about the valid character set for domain names >that are used to refer to SMTP servers, but that doesn't make the >domain names illegal per se. Sorry as far as I am aware the standard is still STD13 which refers to RFC 1034 and RFC 1035 but does not refer to RFC 2181. See http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/std/std13.html My recollection is different from yours. BIND 4 was perfectly happy with underscores it was the move to BIND 8 which tightened things up see for instance http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3728 and the section on Name Checking. Note. As stated in RFC 2181 " 11. Name syntax Occasionally it is assumed that the Domain Name System serves only the purpose of mapping Internet host names to data, and mapping Internet addresses to host names. This is not correct, the DNS is a general (if somewhat limited) hierarchical database, and can store almost any kind of data, for almost any purpose. " Underscores are perfectly valid for use in records other than domain name records and are heavily used in for instance SRV records. But since we were talking about domain names rather than SRV or other types of records my statement stands that the dollar and underscore characters are not valid for that purpose. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 11:55:45 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: >>In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >>> In article <133idqs3vrncda2@corp.supernews.com>, "C.W.Holeman II" writes: >>>>Doc wrote: >>>>> "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote in >>>>> news:133h7qcepn0ar65@news.supernews.com: >>>>> >>>>>> We own VMSUSER.COM >>>> >>>>Does anyone have a list VMS command file .COM domain names like: >>>> >>>> SYS$STARTUP.COM >>>> TCPIP$PWIP_DRIVER_STARTUP.COM >>>> >>> >>> The $ is not a valid character in an internet domain name. >>> (Use of underscore is also not strictly allowed - though older DNS servers >>> supported it.) >> >>It's the other way around. >> >>RFC 1034: Various characters are illegal in a domain name. >> >>RFC 2181: There are no illegal characters in a domain name. Dollar sign >>and underscore are perfectly fine. >> >>BIND 4 didn't much like underscores as I recall. >>BIND 9 is perfectly happy with them and cleaves to the "no characters >>are illegal" interpretation. >>RFC 2821 is still picky about the valid character set for domain names >>that are used to refer to SMTP servers, but that doesn't make the >>domain names illegal per se. > > Sorry as far as I am aware the standard is still STD13 which refers to > RFC 1034 and RFC 1035 but does not refer to RFC 2181. > > See > > http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/std/std13.html 1987. How quaint. > My recollection is different from yours. BIND 4 was perfectly happy with > underscores it was the move to BIND 8 which tightened things up > see for instance You're right about this, of course. I've been using BIND 9 for so long that I'd completely forgotton that it was the BIND 8 migration where many of us first stumbled over underscores. > Note. As stated in RFC 2181 > > " > 11. Name syntax > > Occasionally it is assumed that the Domain Name System serves only > the purpose of mapping Internet host names to data, and mapping > Internet addresses to host names. This is not correct, the DNS is a > general (if somewhat limited) hierarchical database, and can store > almost any kind of data, for almost any purpose. > > " > > Underscores are perfectly valid for use in records other than domain name > records and are heavily used in for instance SRV records. > > But since we were talking about domain names rather than SRV or other types of > records my statement stands that the dollar and underscore characters are not > valid for that purpose. RFC 2181 does not distinguish between what you call "domain names" and what you call "SRV records". In the language of RFC 2181, "domain name" covers both the names of "A" records and the names of "SRV" records. And it also covers the values in "NS" records, "MX" records, "SOA" records and so on. If you want to argue about the standards for "Internet Host Names" then we can argue about that instead. But then neither STD13 nor RFC 2181 are authoritative documents with respect to that question. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 19:39:45 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Message-ID: Hi Ian, > You need to present a case how making LIB$*_VM_PAGE caller's mode safe > either saves HP money or provides some other benefit that the HP bean > counters can see. And I've been doing what exactly for the last 6 months? C'mon Ian, you're a regular bloke and I like you as well as respect you so don't start going all Stepford Wives on me. I'm not saying that all the people in charge of the purse-strings at VMS engineering are a poisonous clique of self-serving feather-bedders, but I think we both know that it really wouldn't matter if what I was proposing here was a demonstrable cure for cancer now would it? I am clearly not one of "The Chosen" or a paid-up member of "Club Golden-Bollocks" so the sooner I just bugger-off back to whatever hole it is I crawled out of, the better it'll be for everyone. (Well, that's certainly one option :-) Look, tomorrow I'm gonna summarize the pathetically aspirational and ultimately pointless (but still technically sound) case for the prosecution of a "Caller's mode safe LIB$*_VM_PAGE", so maybe one day when aliens come down and pick through the salt pillars of Sodom-and-Nashua, this functionality might finally get implemented. But in the mean time I thought you and others might like a reminder of an episode from that all time classic series "Only Fools and Horses". It's the one where Del's trying to join the Masons so as to further Raquel's career. I watched it again a couple of weeks ago and something just made me think of it. Cheers Richard Maher PS. While you're coming up with inane suggestions about how project funding gets allocated in Ian-World, why don't you go over to Zimbabwe and convince the masses that "the ballot box is their friend", and a change-agent delivering the true will of the people? What a bunch of whingers they are eh? 2000% inflation, no food or petrol in the shops, beaten to a pulp at the whim of state-sponsored thugs - They never had it so good! Try being an Rdb user if you want to know what living under a malevolent dictatorship is really like! There's a thought; has anyone ever seen Ian Smith and Robert Mugabe in the same room at the same time? PPS. Close your eyes and count to 3. Wham! There's 3million to provide Java class Libraries for RTR (or maybe even a complete rewrite in Java) and then, HP just give it away for free. And don't forget TDMS (It's not going to Alpha ever Ever EVER! Awe Ok then) How many customers left VMS rather than face a rewrite to DECforms only to disemboweled by "the been counter's" latest 180? See how it works in the real world Ian? Yep, a 100% transparent and accountable funding regime; that's what I'm used to :-( From Only Fools & Horses. . . Rodney So come on tell us, what happened down at Boycie's masonic lodge last night? Del Oh yeah, I had to meet a few of the committee members - try and make an impression, you know. Rodney Yeah, so are you a mason now? Del No, the committee are discussing me this evening. But as Boycie said, there's always the chance that I could be black-balled. Rodney What's that, part of the initiation ceremony? Del No, no. You see, each committee member has one white ball and one black ball. And to vote they have to put one of the balls in the bag. Rodney (Still puzzled then realises) You mean snooker balls? Del Yeah. Rodney Gotchyer. Del And if, when they empty the bag, all the balls are white - you're in. But if there is one black ball - just one - you're out. ]~~~ And later in the episode. . . . * Boycie enters the bar. Del Oi, Boycie. Boycie over here, over here. Sit yourself down Boycie. Have the committee come to a decision yet? Boycie Yes, it has Derek, and it's bad news, well bad news for you at least. You were black-balled. Del Oh no, someone put a black ball in the bag? Who? Boycie When they emptied the bag there was more than one black ball. Del How many? Boycie Well, let's put it like this. Have you ever seen the bottom of a rabbit's hutch? Sorry, Dickie, I did my best. * Boycie moves to the bar. :-) "Ian Miller" wrote in message news:1178109177.105406.27550@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > The GETQUI context value is not a index but a value held in the > context block used to identify which one to use. > > I have not looked how GETQUI manages its context blocks. > > You need to present a case how making LIB$*_VM_PAGE caller's mode safe > either saves HP money or provides some other benefit that the HP bean > counters can see. > ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 05:53:23 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Message-ID: <1178196803.235672.39670@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> I think you have a good technical case but I've not seen any argument in terms of money. HP, like other large companies such as the one I am employed by, are run by beancounters and management that follow fashion. As VMS is not fashionable then there needs to be a business case based on money. What you are proposing appears to be technically a good idea but where's the money in it? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 09:08:06 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Message-ID: "Ian Miller" wrote in message news:1178196803.235672.39670@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... >I think you have a good technical case but I've not seen any argument > in terms of money. HP, like other large companies such as the one I am > employed by, are run by beancounters and management that follow > fashion. > > As VMS is not fashionable then there needs to be a business case based > on money. > > What you are proposing appears to be technically a good idea but > where's the money in it? > It is really a cost/benefit question - along with expertise/time/interest. The expertise/time/interest component is the wiggle-room where if the developer who nominally owns the component thinks its a good idea and has time to do it - then things can happen even without a measurable profit. There are all kinds of good ideas. I have about 2 dozen things I'd like to do if/when I have time that vary in effort from a few days to months. They don't all get done. Sometimes things get done just because I happen to be making a change someplace for a different reason - and decide to implement one of those ideas on-the-shelf while I'm in the code. So make a compelling argument about why it would be cool, or what it would enable that would be cool, or how it would enable a product that would sell lots of VMS systems. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:15:54 -0500 From: Dan Foster Subject: Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Message-ID: In article , FredK wrote: > > "Ian Miller" wrote in message > news:1178196803.235672.39670@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... >>I think you have a good technical case but I've not seen any argument >> in terms of money. HP, like other large companies such as the one I am >> employed by, are run by beancounters and management that follow >> fashion. >> >> As VMS is not fashionable then there needs to be a business case based >> on money. >> >> What you are proposing appears to be technically a good idea but >> where's the money in it? >> > > It is really a cost/benefit question - along with expertise/time/interest. > The expertise/time/interest component is the wiggle-room where if the > developer who nominally owns the component thinks its a good idea and has > time to do it - then things can happen even without a measurable profit. > > There are all kinds of good ideas. I have about 2 dozen things I'd like to > do if/when I have time that vary in effort from a few days to months. They > don't all get done. Sometimes things get done just because I happen to be > making a change someplace for a different reason - and decide to implement > one of those ideas on-the-shelf while I'm in the code. > > So make a compelling argument about why it would be cool, or what it would > enable that would be cool, or how it would enable a product that would sell > lots of VMS systems. This is somewhat ironic in light of the PL/I compiler on Integrity issue recently discussed. -Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:36:28 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Motif routines uses by DECterms Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:b0488$4637ffc2$cef8887a$23959@TEKSAVVY.COM... > shofu_au@yahoo.com.au wrote: > >> That leaves me to believe that the reason for the slowness is the way >> I am updating my window in Motif. > > How much data does each TCPIP side AST obtain ? (aka, character by > character, packet by packet ?) > >> I update my Motif window using by getting the last position via >> XmTextGetLastPosition, >> then inserting the text via XmTextInsert. This is done inside the >> call back from >> XtAppAddInput. > > I am not sure about how DECterm does it. Mr FredK might know if given the > right amount of the right kind of a favourite beverage. > > I doubt that DECterm uses XmText since it is able to have various text > renditions, as well as some graphics (Sixel, and line drawing). > DECterm is not a widget, nor does it use a widget or widget/gadget calls to draw it's text - it uses Xlib calls to draw it's text. I can tell you a little bit about it, because I wrote the code that DECterm was based on. The heart of a terminal emulator is the parser, but lets ignore that because you just care about the display side. The emulator maintains an internal representation of what is on screen (and what has scrolled off screen). It does this by managing several arrays (backing store). Essentially there is an array of pointers to character and attribute arrays that represent each line on the screen. Drawing to the screen is accomplished by writing to the changes into the arrays. Scrolling is done by shuffling the pointer arrays to the text and attributes. Output to the screen reflecting the changes may not be immediately done. For example if the incomming data is displayable text (no escape sequences or control characters) the actual update of the text on the screen isn't done until either we run out of data - or until a non-displayable character is detected. So for example the string "abcdefghijklmnopfoo bar" is sent - abcdefghijklmnop is inserted into the backing store and when the control character is detected, the screen is updated. In addition, there is an option for "batch scroll" which defers output even more. With batch scroll set to a non-zero value, and a scroll operation occurs - then output is only reflected in the backing store until the screen is re-synched - this is what gets you "jump scroll" output. In fact DECterm had badly implemented this until I hacked a fix in a couple years ago... since DECterm always re-synched when it ran out of data. The original intent was to trigger the re-synch when the cursor blink timer went off - which provides a short window of time where more data might come in (often the case when say, "TYPE"ing a file). Unfortunately the DECterm code snapshot they started with was about 2 weeks before I implemented the feature for scrolling in both directions. So... after that longish explanation - the answer is - DECterm doesn't use the Xm routines for text output, and is highly optimized for drawing text directly to the screen. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 06:55:53 GMT From: "John Wallace" Subject: Re: numerical libraries on integrity Message-ID: "O'Brien Paddy" wrote in message news:0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC33938CD@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.lo cal... > Do you know what I can get from EXT_MATH_LIB and > EXT_MATH_LIB_RT products available on IA64 (and Alpha) under > the educational or hobbyist lisence? I have no idea as to what these are. The latter does not appear on Google, and the former appears in four messages all of which are in C code relating to tomcrypt, but no idea of what it means. Obviously, neither appear on the HP OpenVMS site. ..... Sorry if this is stating the obvious, but are these not simply the LMF license names for the familiar DXML and DXML-RT (and logical successors)? E.g. a DXML Installation Guide such as the one at http://h30266.www3.hp.com/masterindex/installation_guide/installation_guide_ 0103d530.txt says "The LMF names for DXML are as follows: o EXT-MATH-LIB for the Development ..." For other "legacy" (ie useful) DXML-related information, readers may wish to consult archived versions of the DEC and Compaq math library pages at web.archive.org - for example, it has archived versions of www.compaq.com/math which may have relevant info (though it may not be all that easy to find). For example a CPML intro is at http://web.archive.org/web/20021006125949/www.compaq.com/math/introduction/i ndex.html Unfortunately many (most? all?) of the pages from www.dec.com are explicitly blocked at the wayback machine (for reasons which I can't even guess at), so the Compaq pages may be the best option. Hth John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:28:11 +1000 From: "O'Brien Paddy" Subject: RE: numerical libraries on integrity Message-ID: <0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC339390D@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.local> John, =20 > > > Do you know what I can get from EXT_MATH_LIB and EXT_MATH_LIB_RT=20 > > > products available on IA64 (and Alpha) under the educational or=20 > > > hobbyist lisence? >=20 > > I have no idea as to what these are. The latter does not=20 > > appear on Google, and the former appears in four messages all=20 > > of which are in C code relating to tomcrypt, but no idea of=20 > > what it means. Obviously, neither appear on the HP OpenVMS site. >=20 > ..... >=20 > Sorry if this is stating the obvious, but are these not=20 > simply the LMF license names for the familiar DXML and=20 > DXML-RT (and logical successors)? > E.g. a DXML Installation Guide such as the one at=20 > http://h30266.www3.hp.com/masterindex/installation_guide/insta > llation_guide_ > 0103d530.txt says "The LMF names for DXML are as follows: o=20 > EXT-MATH-LIB for the Development ..." To me, it's not actually stating the obvious. We only picked up on CXML when it was packaged for free with the Fortran F90/5 compiler. We beta-tested F90 from square one, and as I think I mentioned I beta-tested a later version of the CXML library before the excellent staff were donated to INTEL. So we have no reference in our licence database to DXML/CXML by whatever name the licence is. You found a reference that I did not; after I had done a search on Google and on the HP site. And since it has been many years that CXML has been for free, this guide must be way out of date. I still don't understand why the HP site denied me any reference in my search since your URL points to an HP site. >=20 > For other "legacy" (ie useful) DXML-related information,=20 > readers may wish to consult archived versions of the DEC and=20 > Compaq math library pages at web.archive.org - for example,=20 > it has archived versions of www.compaq.com/math which may=20 > have relevant info (though it may not be all that easy to=20 > find). For example a CPML intro is at=20 > http://web.archive.org/web/20021006125949/www.compaq.com/math/ > introduction/i > ndex.html >=20 > Unfortunately many (most? all?) of the pages from www.dec.com=20 > are explicitly blocked at the wayback machine (for reasons=20 > which I can't even guess at), so the Compaq pages may be the=20 > best option. >=20 As I told the OP, I have found a .PDF file for the CPML library at the HP site. A .PDF file is also findable for CXML on the HP site, but this won't help the OP if there is no CXML on IA64. > Hth > John >=20 I'll have a look at the archive URLs you quoted. Thanks. Regards, Paddy *********************************************************************** Please consider the environment before printing this email. "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20 addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of=20 this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise the sender. You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=20 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited. If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 immediately. Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 authority states them to be the views of TransGrid. TransGrid uses virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment." *********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 03:27:54 -0700 From: Rambo Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <1178188074.076568.257080@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> "War Game"- This wouldn't happen with a VAX :-) ------------------------------ Date: 03 May 2007 11:05:08 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: "William Webb" wrote in news:8660a3a10705020649j6ebc1cddjb5a743904d3ba28a@mail.gmail.com: > On 2 May 2007 06:30:22 -0700, Dave Gullen wrote: >> I don't really have a top three, just a slowly changing pool of long- >> term favourites and recent passions. Films I've recently enjoyed >> greatly are:: >> >> The Departed >> Pan's Labyrinth >> Brotherhood of the Wolf >> Downfall. >> >> Top three all time I'm not sure, but Chinatown is one of them. >> >> I don't think Downfall would be good for a VMS promo, but writing this >> I realise there are several foreign language films, so how about a >> promo where you use subtitles, perhaps like in Annie Hall? >> >> Dave >> >> > Interesting point. On a flight from Hong Kong to San Francisco, I > watched "Sweet Home Alabama" twice- first with the original English, > the second time, dubbed in Mandarin. > > It was actually more interesting the second time around. This is definitely OT, but maybe it will give some people a few ideas... http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007/real-computer-monster-p1.php Doc. ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 12:26:03 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <59u2mqF2me4l5U1@mid.individual.net> In article <1178188074.076568.257080@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Rambo writes: > "War Game"- This wouldn't happen with a VAX :-) In the supposed environment involved, it wouldn't have happened with any computer. (At least at the time the movie was made, physical security for classified systems seems to have relaxed an awful lot since then!!) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 07:28:48 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: In article <1178137846.527451.297350@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, davidc@montagar.com writes: > > Galaxy Quest! Adventures of the VMSNA Protectorate. Subtitled in > Thermian. How much to get Signourney Weaver to the event? As a blonde? ------------------------------ Date: 03 May 2007 12:46:58 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in news:59u2mqF2me4l5U1 @mid.individual.net: > In article <1178188074.076568.257080@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > Rambo writes: >> "War Game"- This wouldn't happen with a VAX :-) > > In the supposed environment involved, it wouldn't have happened > with any computer. (At least at the time the movie was made, > physical security for classified systems seems to have relaxed > an awful lot since then!!) Hollywood has always had trouble with computers, they just don't understand them nor the environments they're used in. Sneakers is a far better hacking movie because if you know a little about crypto you can see that the story could be about an exploit for something like SSH or one of its predecessors. The makers of Sneakers had the good sense to be vague enough about the "hack" to keep the story interesting and believable. I think I've seen three or four people mention China Syndrome, do we all want the slogan to be "Your reactor might meldown, but at least the computers will tell you about it"?. :-P Doc. ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 13:13:30 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <59u5fqF2k6l4vU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Doc writes: > > I think I've seen three or four people mention China Syndrome, do we all > want the slogan to be "Your reactor might meldown, but at least the > computers will tell you about it"?. :-P Has anyone actually read the book that "China Syndrome" was based on? It starts off with a Prologue with comments by some top atomic scientists who all tout what a good action novel it is even given the fact that what happens in the book would never really happen. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 08:04:49 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <1178204689.112671.248110@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On May 2, 8:08 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > "Master loves Larry! Master feeds Larry!" "Fritz! Fritz! They killed Fritz!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:15:13 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Message-ID: wrote in message news:wNxAqRVNxwUT@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article , "P. > Sture" writes: >> In article , >> Tad Winters wrote: >> >> I believe this goes back to VT100 days. Without the VT100 Advanced Video >> Option (AVO), 132 column mode only displayed 12 lines, so clearing the >> screen on a width change was a sensible thing to do. > > I've always assumed that this was a symptom of the underlying scarcity of > character cell memory. It wasn't 12 lines in 132 column mode. It was 14. > > 24*80=1920 > floor(1920/132) = 14 > > The designers probably could have written a routine to re-shuffle the > character cell memory in place, but it would have been tricky. Much > easier just to wipe it. That's my guess as to why it was done. This truly is/was a carry over from the VT100 days and limitations. Once the behavior of the escape sequence had been established and written into the DEC STD-138 manual, you had to implement it the same way on future terminals. The VWS emulator (from which DECterm was derived) had a setting to override the clearing... I don't know why DECterm doesn't also. Fred (former terminal emulator developer) ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 07:26:46 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: SIMH default boot device (was Re: SIMH Ethernet problem) Message-ID: In article , Hunter Goatley writes: > One more question, please: I'm trying to set up SIMH so it automatically > boots VMS when it's launched. I know about using "dep bdr 0" to not > stop at the console prompt, but it never remembers the default boot > device. If I do SET BOOT DUA0 and then BOOT, it works as expected, > but the next time I run SIMH, it no longer knows to boot from DUA0:. > > How do you tell the VAX console what the default boot device is so > that it remembers it? You need to attach the NVR to a file. I have different boot flags saved in different NVRAM files, and use different boot scripts to fire them off. In my script which boots from SYS1, I have: attach NVR vax\ka655-sys1.nvr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 10:00:37 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: SSH Keys for a heterogeneous Environment Message-ID: <463996a6@news.post.ch> Richard E. Silverman schrieb: >>>>>> "MK" == Martin Krischik writes: > MK> 3) And now the ultimate question: Is there a tool which can > MK> convert keys? Thanks to c.o.vms I now know that ssh-keygen is > MK> supposed to be able to do this. But hey, look at this: > > MK> ------------------------------------------- > >> ssh-keygen -i -f vms_dsa > MK> unsupported cipher 3des-cbc decode blob failed. > MK> ------------------------------------------- > > MK> It seems that ssh-keygen is a bit limited in it's abilities. > > The input key must be unencrypted; this is mentioned in the man page. Easier said then done. The shh-keygen used to generate the key does not have a decrypt option: ------------------------------------------- ssh_keygen -h Usage: ssh_keygen [options] [key1 key2 ...] Where `options' are: -b nnn Specify key strength in bits (e.g. 1024) -t dsa | rsa Choose the key type. -c comment Provide the comment. -e file Edit the comment/passphrase of the key. -p passphrase Provide passphrase. -P Assume empty passphrase. -? -h Print this help text. -q Suppress the progress indicator. -1 Convert a SSH 1.x key. -i file Load and display information on `file'. -D file Derive the public key from the private key 'file'. -B number The number base for displaying key information (default 10). -V Print version number of tcpip$ssh_ssh-keygen2.exe image. -r file Stir data from file to random pool. -x file Convert private key from X.509 format to SSH2 format. -k file Convert a PKCS 12 file to an SSH2 format certificate and private key. -7 file Extract certificates from a PKCS 7 file. -F file Dump fingerprint of file. ------------------------------------------- Martin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:56:43 -0400 From: "don" Subject: VMS contractor need in Southern CA. area Message-ID: Looking for VMS contractor for approx 6 week gig in SO. CA area. Knowledge of Mumps/Cache a plus No recruiters groves@morningtowngroup.com ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.242 ************************