INFO-VAX Wed, 09 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 253 Contents: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? RE: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: detect unaligned data access Re: detect unaligned data access Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Re: GNV Breaks VMS Looking for OpenVMS Admin in NC Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: SYSMAN problem Re: tukwila hits iceberg! Re: VMS 8.2 VMSINSTAL Bug with RUN_IMAGE Persists? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 08 May 2007 18:38:31 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: "news.hp.com" wrote in news:f1q52h$a9q$1 @usenet01.boi.hp.com: > Doc wrote: >> What would be a big help to the Hobbyist programme would be a minimal >> bootable Linux CD to run sim-h and VMS. > > I wonder if Peronal Alpha would run under WINE under Linux? Is "Peronal Alpha" an alpha emulator? That'd be interesting, but are the latest-and-greatest machines going to run VMS on something like that at an acceptable speed? Doc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:13:51 -0600 From: "news.hp.com" Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: Doc wrote: > Is "Peronal Alpha" an Alpha emulator? Yes. See http://personalalpha.com/ (which points to http://www.emulatorsinternational.com/en/personalalpha.htm) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 21:35:41 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <4640d10d$0$16939$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 8-5-2007 17:30 news.hp.com wrote... > Doc wrote: >> What would be a big help to the Hobbyist programme would be a minimal >> bootable Linux CD to run sim-h and VMS. > > I wonder if Peronal Alpha would run under WINE under Linux? I have a Fedora Core 6 system with Wine. So how would I go about installing Palpha_*.msi onto this system. Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 21:39:19 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <4640d1e8$0$16946$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 8-5-2007 20:38 Doc wrote... > Is "Peronal Alpha" an alpha emulator? That'd be interesting, but are the > latest-and-greatest machines going to run VMS on something like that at an > acceptable speed? Since Personal Alpha is a 32bit program emulating a 64-bit architecture, it probably won't run fast on Wine/linux, if at all -I'll try. It runs at acceptable speed under Windows. [PLUG ALERT] Its big brother, CHARON-AXP, is a 64 bit program that runs on 64 bit Windows on Intel or AMD. Production quality replacement for Alpha 4000 systems and the like. Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 07:16:11 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <4641591b$0$16938$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 8-5-2007 21:35 Wilm Boerhout wrote... [snip] >> I wonder if Peronal Alpha would run under WINE under Linux? > > I have a Fedora Core 6 system with Wine. So how would I go about > installing Palpha_*.msi onto this system. May I should worry first about getting .NET 2.0 to run under Wine. Later, Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 14:34:26 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <1341gl6jvjcj2ad@news.supernews.com> Curious... Even HP tells me they are quiet. I can't believe everyone has stopped buying Alpha systems just because of discontinuation DT -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 T: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 001 912 447 6622 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 15:20:03 -0400 From: "Koska, John C. \(LNG-ALB\)" Subject: RE: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: I can only speak for my situation. We have AlphaServers that provide the performance we need currently, and our main application has not been ported to OpenVMS Itanium yet. =20 We priced out a GS1280s and ES47s to provide for a Plan B, in case our management decided they wanted to purchase for the future to protect against the ISV not porting to OpenVMS Itanium, but they decided against it. We are... so to say, in a temporary lull. :) jck > -----Original Message----- > From: David Turner, Island Computers=20 > [mailto:dturner@no-spam-islandco.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 2:34 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? >=20 > Curious... > Even HP tells me they are quiet. > I can't believe everyone has stopped buying Alpha systems=20 > just because of discontinuation >=20 > DT >=20 > -- > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404 >=20 > T: 877-6364332 x201 > Intl: 001 912 447 6622 >=20 > E: dturner@islandco.com > F: 912 201 0402 > W: http://www.islandco.com >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 15:28:59 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: Fair enough It is strange because the WHOLE market is slow The IT market in general apparently lulled DT "Koska, John C. (LNG-ALB)" wrote in message news:D8D507FABDE21843BD4BD5791ADCB12A031B2E97@LNGALBEXCP01VA.legal.regn.net... I can only speak for my situation. We have AlphaServers that provide the performance we need currently, and our main application has not been ported to OpenVMS Itanium yet. We priced out a GS1280s and ES47s to provide for a Plan B, in case our management decided they wanted to purchase for the future to protect against the ISV not porting to OpenVMS Itanium, but they decided against it. We are... so to say, in a temporary lull. :) jck > -----Original Message----- > From: David Turner, Island Computers > [mailto:dturner@no-spam-islandco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 2:34 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? > > Curious... > Even HP tells me they are quiet. > I can't believe everyone has stopped buying Alpha systems > just because of discontinuation > > DT > > -- > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404 > > T: 877-6364332 x201 > Intl: 001 912 447 6622 > > E: dturner@islandco.com > F: 912 201 0402 > W: http://www.islandco.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 14:34:20 -0500 From: Dan Foster Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: In article , David Turner, Island Computers wrote: > It is strange because the WHOLE market is slow > The IT market in general apparently lulled It'll pick up again in a few years as parts starts to fail. (Not everybody has already stockpiled parts for their existing systems.) -Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 14:08:57 -0600 From: "news.hp.com" Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: David Turner, Island Computers wrote: > Even HP tells me they are quiet. Are you sure you didn't misunderstand, and they actually said "We're in the 'quiet period'" (as always happens for the month before quarterly results are announced)? I don't have any access to sales figures, but I've noticed a progression of thinking as I've talked with customers over the past year or so: Introduction of Montecito-based systems to have put away the majority of worries about performance. Sufficient notice has apparently been given of the last-sale dates (and then, possibly to the relief of those who faced unforeseen circumstances or simply procrastinated, there was a 6-month extension). Procuring Alpha boxes started to be perceived more and more by the management at customer companies as a dead-end route, while the purchase of Integrity Servers was perceived as being more in tune with future directions for OpenVMS. Integrity Servers turned out to be much less expensive, both to procure and to maintain. Porting for so many folks has proven to be relatively painless. And major software like Oracle Server that might have been been holding some folks back is now available. Perhaps you might want to consider carrying some Integrity Servers now, David? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 17:30:43 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <6_50i.49384$254.1268@bignews7.bellsouth.net> It would be great if we could get them Even HP refub can't get them in any quantity And they are not allowed to sell them to resellers anyhoo. As for pricing, I think the DS15 is a far better deal than the RX26xx DT "news.hp.com" wrote in message news:f1qlcs$q15$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > David Turner, Island Computers wrote: >> Even HP tells me they are quiet. > > Are you sure you didn't misunderstand, and they actually said "We're in > the 'quiet period'" (as always happens for the month before quarterly > results are announced)? > > I don't have any access to sales figures, but I've noticed a progression > of thinking as I've talked with customers over the past year or so: > > Introduction of Montecito-based systems to have put away the majority of > worries about performance. > > Sufficient notice has apparently been given of the last-sale dates (and > then, possibly to the relief of those who faced unforeseen circumstances > or simply procrastinated, there was a 6-month extension). > > Procuring Alpha boxes started to be perceived more and more by the > management at customer companies as a dead-end route, while the purchase > of Integrity Servers was perceived as being more in tune with future > directions for OpenVMS. > > Integrity Servers turned out to be much less expensive, both to procure > and to maintain. > > Porting for so many folks has proven to be relatively painless. And major > software like Oracle Server that might have been been holding some folks > back is now available. > > Perhaps you might want to consider carrying some Integrity Servers now, > David? ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 15:48:52 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <1178664532.121492.234880@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On May 8, 2:28 pm, "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote: > Fair enough > It is strange because the WHOLE market is slow > The IT market in general apparently lulled The market is afraid to buy new hardware, and the required upgrade to Vista... Even though some folks don't understand that Alpha doesn't run Vista... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 20:35:28 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: FYI I am allowed to sell NEW ES47 systems now ! And DS15 etc David Island "Koska, John C. (LNG-ALB)" wrote in message news:D8D507FABDE21843BD4BD5791ADCB12A031B2E97@LNGALBEXCP01VA.legal.regn.net... I can only speak for my situation. We have AlphaServers that provide the performance we need currently, and our main application has not been ported to OpenVMS Itanium yet. We priced out a GS1280s and ES47s to provide for a Plan B, in case our management decided they wanted to purchase for the future to protect against the ISV not porting to OpenVMS Itanium, but they decided against it. We are... so to say, in a temporary lull. :) jck > -----Original Message----- > From: David Turner, Island Computers > [mailto:dturner@no-spam-islandco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 2:34 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? > > Curious... > Even HP tells me they are quiet. > I can't believe everyone has stopped buying Alpha systems > just because of discontinuation > > DT > > -- > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404 > > T: 877-6364332 x201 > Intl: 001 912 447 6622 > > E: dturner@islandco.com > F: 912 201 0402 > W: http://www.islandco.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 20:48:41 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <46411a69$0$90269$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> David Turner, Island Computers wrote: > Even HP tells me they are quiet. > I can't believe everyone has stopped buying Alpha systems just because of > discontinuation Prof market: I think a lot of people bought from HP up to the two times stop of sale. Now it will probably be some months until purchases. Hobbyist market: I think Ebay has become the dominant supplier, because there are so many system being dumped there. Arne PS: I also think you should go into Itanium business. ------------------------------ Date: 9 May 2007 00:59:15 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote: > As for pricing, I think the DS15 is a far better deal than the RX26xx I'm curious, why do you feel this way? I can't remember the correct incantations to get prices out of the blasted HP website, but ISTR that an RX26xx is going to be cheaper. Zane ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 22:39:22 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: In article , "news.hp.com" writes: > Porting for so many folks has proven to be relatively painless. And for others, impossible due to the lack of at least two compilers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 06:57:38 +1000 From: Jim Duff Subject: Re: detect unaligned data access Message-ID: <4640e443@dnews.tpgi.com.au> Joshua Lehrer wrote: > I've decided to go with the sys$start_align_fault_report approach. > > This works great and I am receiving the exceptions in my exception > handler. > > One of the arguments to the handler is "unsigned int * sigargs". > >>From what I can gather: > > sigargs[0] is the argument count (5) > sigargs[1] is the exception number (1291) > sigargs[2] is the virtual address (32-bit number) > sigargs[3] is unknown to me > sigargs[4] is the program counter (32-bit number) > > My problem is that the virtual address and program counters are 32-bit > numbers. When running a 64-bit application, my unaligned data's > virtual address could easily (and frequently) be a 64-bit number. The > program counter could be a 64-bit number as well. Does the exception > vector contain the high order bits of the virtual address and program > counter somwhere? > > Also, what's in sigargs[3]? > > Thanks, > > josh > You need to use the 64 bit version of the signal array, described here: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/DOC/82final/5973/5973pro_023.html#sig_arg_vector_64_fig I've updated my example code to demonstrate its usage. See here: http://www.eight-cubed.com/examples/framework.php?file=sys_align_faults.c Cheers, Jim. -- www.eight-cubed.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 17:04:05 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: detect unaligned data access Message-ID: Joshua Lehrer wrote: > I've decided to go with the sys$start_align_fault_report approach. > > This works great and I am receiving the exceptions in my exception > handler. > > One of the arguments to the handler is "unsigned int * sigargs". > >>From what I can gather: > > sigargs[0] is the argument count (5) > sigargs[1] is the exception number (1291) > sigargs[2] is the virtual address (32-bit number) > sigargs[3] is unknown to me > sigargs[4] is the program counter (32-bit number) > > My problem is that the virtual address and program counters are 32-bit > numbers. When running a 64-bit application, my unaligned data's > virtual address could easily (and frequently) be a 64-bit number. The > program counter could be a 64-bit number as well. Does the exception > vector contain the high order bits of the virtual address and program > counter somwhere? > > Also, what's in sigargs[3]? > > Thanks, > > josh > I think you'll find the 64-bit signal array by looking at the CHF$PH_MCH_SIG64_ADDR field in the mechanism array. SS$_ALIGN is signalled as a 64-bit signal array and later on the 32-bit version is constructed (where the upper 32-bits of the VA and PC were probably tossed). The original 64-bit signal array has the form: 33142 // Construct 64-bit signal array containing quadwords: 33143 // #5, SS$_SIGNAL64 33144 // SS$_ALIGN 33145 // virtual address 33146 // function (0 = read, 1 = write) 33147 // PC 33148 // PS -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 12:51:49 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Message-ID: "Neil Rieck" wrote in message news:463cff5d$0$16405$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > I am still committed to OpenVMS and think it is the best OS in the world so > please don't take the following remarks out of context. My main intention of > this is to show how Sun is using their software to leverage hardware sales. > You can decide for yourself if OpenVMS is being promoted properly by HP. > > ### > > Two weeks ago a co-worker sent me this link: > http://www.sun.com/playtempleofthesun > It is an "Indiana Jones" style game targeted at C/C++ developers. I'm not > sure why Sun would market a product in this way. Maybe this is a social > experiment or maybe the "game theme" was designed to keep old farts like me > out of it but obviously Sun underestimated my level of immaturity. So I > spent 15 minutes going through the six levels, answering a C/C++ programming > question at the end of each one, which then qualified me to receive a free > DVD containing a pre-release of Solaris-11 along with their IDE named "Sun > Studio 11". The DVD was delivered to my inbox within 48 hours so I took it > home since I was just starting a week of vacations and had nowhere to go. > > I had recently taken possession of a Compaq Presario (SR2044NX) with a > dual-core Pentium-D CPU running 2.8 GHz with 1 GB of RAM etc. Since this > thing already had a second 200 GB hard drive it was no big deal for me to > just boot the Sun DVD and install Solaris on the second drive. This thing > auto-installed itself easier than Windows and everything worked properly > except the embedded sound chip (I Googled up a third party driver and was up > in no time). Even both cores were enabled and active. > > If you log into Solaris using the Gnome desktop you'll find that all the > familiar apps are present including one called "Network Servers" which will > allow you to access shared folders on your windows machines. Bringing up > Firefox for the first time will display "Sun's Developer Guide" which > includes local links to videos like: "Getting acquainted with Solaris > basics", "Learn about Solaris software", "Learn about Sun Studio software", > "Learn about NetBeans", etc. > > Bringing up "Sun Studio 11" for the first time will remind you of > Microsoft's Visual Studio but they have provided three of their own > compliers: C, C++, and Fortran. I tested them all, they all work. There are > lots of tutorials on how to auto-make applications generating code for both > SPARC and x86-64 platforms. (it now just realized that I'm running a 64-bit > version of Solaris on this Presario). Although Sun compilers are run by > default, the make files allow you to optionally choose GNU compilers. > Solaris code is generated by default but the make files allow you to > optionally generate code for Linux. > > This IDE contains lots of built-in tutorials but it doesn't take too long to > fix the broken programs and get them working. Once you are at this level > they want you to restart your saved game and answer question at the last > level (you are given some strange looking "C" code which you must paste into > your IDE, then compile and run. You now copy the program's output and paste > it back into the game in order to be eligible for some kind of cash draw. > > ### > > Obviously Sun is targeting this product at a younger audience but those > people are going to be the developers of the future. During all this I kept > asking myself "what is HP doing to promote OpenVMS?" > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ > Hi Neil, In defense of VMS Engineering, I'd just like to say: - "We invested a lot of time and energy into creating something better than VMSINSTAL." As for all this "auto-installing" stuff, just ask yourself if most SUN and Windows developers aren't kicking themselves that they don't have PCSI :-) On a serious note though, I just wish VMS Engineering would stop trying to "replicate" what SUN or Microsoft or Whoever are doing and instead tried harder to "integrate" these outstanding products with VMS's strengths. I mean how many IDEs do you need on VMS for Java if everyone is using their favourite IDE on their favourite platform and, at best, just shipping the JAR or CLASS files to the VMS/JVM for execution? Rather than playing perennial catchup, shouldn't HP be applauding SUN's efforts and then saying that we can make it more resilient (if not run faster) on VMS? Take Solaris/Java, Linux/Java, Windows/.NET - Surely VMS should embrace them all as potential front-end solutions? (And, most importantly, stop diverting precious resources into competing with them?) Me? I like VMS! I revel in it's existing and rich development environment. I love its clustering and reliability, its Run-Time Libraries and language neutral environment. I love its Lock Manager and its 4 Processor Modes; yes its beauty and its terror; the wide-brown land for me! Cheers Richard Maher PS. Have I missed something and everybody thinks VMS now has a place back on the desktop workstation market? Maybe we should start manufacturing VTxxx again? NintendoVMSboy? VBox? Satirically, that Linux penguin with diving-flippers and a strapped-on rubber bill is looking more and more like logo material :-( VMStunes with Itanium inside? (Could be a bit bigger than the Apple one) Who needs a rudder eh? Let's just keep "saling" around out here and see what happens. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 02:50:10 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: GNV Breaks VMS Message-ID: John Reagan wrote: > > I forwarded this to the engineer doing GNV. I believe those automagic > mount-points are going away (or at least becoming optional). While you are monitoring comp.os.vms, I never got a response to the e-mail I sent you about the patches at ftp://ftp.encompasserve.org/gnv/gnv_update_dec30_2006.zip and gnv_update_dec30_2006_notes.txt. It has fixes for the LN and RM images. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 13:16:37 -0700 From: tylersiprova Subject: Looking for OpenVMS Admin in NC Message-ID: <1178655397.112758.299350@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Hi, I am looking for an OpenVMS Admin for a contract-to-permanent position in Raleigh, NC. If interested, please contact Tyler Siprova at 800-931-1728 or 919-852-1977 ext 3123. You can also email a resume to tsiprova@technisource.com. Thanks, Tyler Siprova ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 12:15:58 -0500 From: John Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <4640B04E.9070303@tx.rr.com> BaxterD@tessco.com wrote: > Does anyone know if there is a symbol which keeps the PID of the >last detached process created. > > I am thinking of a equivalent to the $ENTRY symbol which holds the >entry number of the last job you submitted. > > Basically I would like to get the PID of a process and store it for >future reference. > >thanks Dave. > > I wish for the same - I ended up creating a JOB logical for the purpose. For example (un tested code - but you should get the idea!) $! parent.com $! $ ... $! $! define the logical to NULL just in case the sub-process fails $! $ define /job subpid "NULL": $! $ run /detach ... sibling.com $! $! wait ten seconds for the sub-process to start $! $ count = 0 $ loop: $ count = count + 1 $ wait 00:00:01 $ eqvnam = f$trnlnm("SUBPID","LNM$JOB") $ if (eqvnam .eqs. "NULL" .and. count .lt. 10) then goto loop $! $ if (eqvnam .eqs. "NULL") then assume that the sub-process failed... $ if (eqvnam .nes. "NULL") then continue with your logic $! $ ... $! sibling.com $! $ pid = f$getjpi("","PID") $ define /job subpid "''pid'" $ ... ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 14:08:11 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article <1178632977.412050.112300@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, BaxterD@tessco.com writes: > Does anyone know if there is a symbol which keeps the PID of the > last detached process created. > > I am thinking of a equivalent to the $ENTRY symbol which holds the > entry number of the last job you submitted. > > Basically I would like to get the PID of a process and store it for > future reference. You can capture it from the status line returned by the RUN command. It's ugly as sin, but here's a proof of concept: $ define sys$output gork.dat $ run sys$system:loginout.exe - /detach - /input=eisner$dra3:[decuserve_user.briggs]nothing.com - /output=eisner$dra3:[decuserve_user.briggs]nothing.log $ save_status = $status $ deassign sys$output $ show sym save_status $ if .not. save_status $ then $ type gork.dat $ exit save_status $ endif $ open status_file gork.dat $ read status_file status_line $ close status_file $ pid = f$extract ( f$length(status_line)-8, 8, status_line) $ write sys$output pid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:22:19 -0500 From: John Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <4640BFDB.30608@tx.rr.com> John wrote: > BaxterD@tessco.com wrote: > >> Does anyone know if there is a symbol which keeps the PID of the >> last detached process created. >> >> I am thinking of a equivalent to the $ENTRY symbol which holds the >> entry number of the last job you submitted. >> >> Basically I would like to get the PID of a process and store it for >> future reference. >> >> thanks Dave. >> >> > I wish for the same - I ended up creating a JOB logical for the purpose. > > For example (un tested code - but you should get the idea!) > > $! parent.com > $! > $ ... > $! > $! define the logical to NULL just in case the sub-process fails > $! > $ define /job subpid "NULL": > $! > $ run /detach ... sibling.com > $! > $! wait ten seconds for the sub-process to start > $! > $ count = 0 > $ loop: > $ count = count + 1 > $ wait 00:00:01 > $ eqvnam = f$trnlnm("SUBPID","LNM$JOB") > $ if (eqvnam .eqs. "NULL" .and. count .lt. 10) then goto loop > $! > $ if (eqvnam .eqs. "NULL") then assume that the sub-process failed... > $ if (eqvnam .nes. "NULL") then continue with your logic > $! > $ ... > > > $! sibling.com > $! > $ pid = f$getjpi("","PID") > $ define /job subpid "''pid'" > $ ... Scratch the JOB logical and use either a GROUP or SYSTEM logical instead --- like I said - un tested! john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 18:55:57 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <46410E0D.A7352D14@spam.comcast.net> briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > > In article <1178632977.412050.112300@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, BaxterD@tessco.com writes: > > Does anyone know if there is a symbol which keeps the PID of the > > last detached process created. > > > > I am thinking of a equivalent to the $ENTRY symbol which holds the > > entry number of the last job you submitted. > > > > Basically I would like to get the PID of a process and store it for > > future reference. > > You can capture it from the status line returned by the RUN command. > It's ugly as sin, but here's a proof of concept: > > $ define sys$output gork.dat > $ run sys$system:loginout.exe - > /detach - > /input=eisner$dra3:[decuserve_user.briggs]nothing.com - > /output=eisner$dra3:[decuserve_user.briggs]nothing.log > $ save_status = $status > $ deassign sys$output > $ show sym save_status > $ if .not. save_status > $ then > $ type gork.dat > $ exit save_status > $ endif > $ open status_file gork.dat > $ read status_file status_line > $ close status_file > $ pid = f$extract ( f$length(status_line)-8, 8, status_line) > $ write sys$output pid Here's another approach to try... $ pipe - run sys$system:loginout.exe - /detach - /input=eisner$dra3:[decuserve_user.briggs]nothing.com - /output=eisner$dra3:[decuserve_user.briggs]nothing.log | - @tee sys$command | - (read sys$pipe status_line ; - pid = f$extract ( f$length(status_line)-8, 8, status_line) ; - def/job subpid &pid) $ pid = f$trnlnm( subpid ) $ deas/job subpid See HELP PIPE Description Pipelines_and_TEEs Using_TEEs_and_SYS$PIPE for an example of a TEE.COM. This may only work on V7.3-2 and later due to the command line length. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 22:41:38 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > In article <1178632977.412050.112300@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, BaxterD@tessco.com writes: >> Does anyone know if there is a symbol which keeps the PID of the >> last detached process created. >> >> I am thinking of a equivalent to the $ENTRY symbol which holds the >> entry number of the last job you submitted. >> >> Basically I would like to get the PID of a process and store it for >> future reference. > > You can capture it from the status line returned by the RUN command. > It's ugly as sin For something less ugly, use a compiled language to write your own version of the RUN command that creats the desired symbol. ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 13:08:10 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Message-ID: In article <463FE5C6.9955D547@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > It will be interesting (for some) to see how OpenVMS adapts to this > change going forward. Instead of a disk block holding only a half of a > kilobyte, it will then be 4KB - an eight-fold increase. Thus, VMS's > current limit of 1TB per disk volume could grow to 8TB per disk volume. > (A *LOT* of data to lose in a single incident!) Changing VMS from dealing with multi-K clusters on the disk in 512 byte blocks to dealing with actual 4K blocks sounds straight forward. Good programming exersize for some junior member of VMS engineering, or aren't they allowed to tweak the XQP? (Actually, it could probably be hidden in the device driver.) ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 14:18:20 -0500 From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Message-ID: <6VMi0CHEx8Qc@cuebid.zko.hp.com> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > David J Dachtera writes: >> It will be interesting (for some) to see how OpenVMS adapts to this >> change going forward. Instead of a disk block holding only a half of a >> kilobyte, it will then be 4KB - an eight-fold increase. Thus, VMS's >> current limit of 1TB per disk volume could grow to 8TB per disk volume. >> (A *LOT* of data to lose in a single incident!) > > Changing VMS from dealing with multi-K clusters on the disk in 512 > byte blocks to dealing with actual 4K blocks sounds straight > forward. > > Good programming exersize for some junior member of VMS engineering, > or aren't they allowed to tweak the XQP? > > (Actually, it could probably be hidden in the device driver.) SYS$DKDRIVER already does that (as of V8.3) in support of CD/DVD devices that have a 2K block size. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 18:33:05 GMT From: JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Message-ID: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > David J Dachtera writes: >> It will be interesting (for some) to see how OpenVMS adapts to this >> change going forward. Instead of a disk block holding only a half of a >> kilobyte, it will then be 4KB - an eight-fold increase. Thus, VMS's >> current limit of 1TB per disk volume could grow to 8TB per disk volume. >> (A *LOT* of data to lose in a single incident!) > > Changing VMS from dealing with multi-K clusters on the disk in 512 > byte blocks to dealing with actual 4K blocks sounds straight > forward. > > Good programming exersize for some junior member of VMS engineering, > or aren't they allowed to tweak the XQP? > > (Actually, it could probably be hidden in the device driver.) But if the 'B' in the LBN fields of the on-disk structures are still 512 byte blocks, your volume size is still limited to 1TB. David L. Jones | Phone: (614) 271-6718 Ohio State University | Internet: 140 W. 19th St. | jonesd@ecr6.ohio-state.edu Columbus, OH 43210 | vman+@osu.edu Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 18:46:06 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Message-ID: <46410BBE.D31E624@spam.comcast.net> David Jones wrote: > > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > David J Dachtera writes: > > >> It will be interesting (for some) to see how OpenVMS adapts to this > >> change going forward. Instead of a disk block holding only a half of a > >> kilobyte, it will then be 4KB - an eight-fold increase. Thus, VMS's > >> current limit of 1TB per disk volume could grow to 8TB per disk volume. > >> (A *LOT* of data to lose in a single incident!) > > > > Changing VMS from dealing with multi-K clusters on the disk in 512 > > byte blocks to dealing with actual 4K blocks sounds straight > > forward. > > > > Good programming exersize for some junior member of VMS engineering, > > or aren't they allowed to tweak the XQP? > > > > (Actually, it could probably be hidden in the device driver.) > > But if the 'B' in the LBN fields of the on-disk structures are still 512 byte > blocks, your volume size is still limited to 1TB. As noted, the "B" will switch from 512 to 4096. Clustersizes, BITMAP.SYS, etc. will likely be unaffected since C/H/S will still be rule of the day for disk geometry. On the other hand, the issue of INDEXF.SYS file headers filling up could be somewhat abated by having 4KB of space for file info and extent mapping instead of only 512B. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 20:49:59 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Message-ID: <46411ab6$0$90269$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> David J Dachtera wrote: > David Jones wrote: >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >>> David J Dachtera writes: >>>> It will be interesting (for some) to see how OpenVMS adapts to this >>>> change going forward. Instead of a disk block holding only a half of a >>>> kilobyte, it will then be 4KB - an eight-fold increase. Thus, VMS's >>>> current limit of 1TB per disk volume could grow to 8TB per disk volume. >>>> (A *LOT* of data to lose in a single incident!) >>> Changing VMS from dealing with multi-K clusters on the disk in 512 >>> byte blocks to dealing with actual 4K blocks sounds straight >>> forward. >>> >>> Good programming exersize for some junior member of VMS engineering, >>> or aren't they allowed to tweak the XQP? >>> >>> (Actually, it could probably be hidden in the device driver.) >> But if the 'B' in the LBN fields of the on-disk structures are still 512 byte >> blocks, your volume size is still limited to 1TB. > > As noted, the "B" will switch from 512 to 4096. Clustersizes, BITMAP.SYS, etc. > will likely be unaffected since C/H/S will still be rule of the day for disk > geometry. > > On the other hand, the issue of INDEXF.SYS file headers filling up could be > somewhat abated by having 4KB of space for file info and extent mapping instead > of only 512B. My guess is that there will be a lot of broken code out there with hardcoded 512. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 20:54:45 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Message-ID: David J Dachtera wrote: > http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid5_gci1253901,00.html The materials have been up at the IDEMA site for a while, and I've had various references to this possible increase for a while both at the HoffmanLabs site and in various presentations. There are various discussions around the storage migration across everybody and all the various organizations involved (storage organizations, software entities, operating system groups, controllers, etc), some of whom have been hoping for a quick move to 4 KiB and others have assumed there were going to have to be adapters or firmware that presented old and new interfaces; some expected a fast move and others involved expect this to be a more gradual adoption or more gradual migration. At the lowest level, this is as much a device-level firmware change as a hardware change, and this firmware change quickly percolates up into the software layer. Both at the I/O interface for the device, and around software allocation and alignment and such. > Long Block Data sector standard finalized > The International Disk Drive, Equipment and Materials Association > (IDEMA) announced that its workgroup has finalized the definition of the > Long Block Data (LBD) sector standard and is releasing it to hardware > and software developers. The new standard is meant to replace the > 30-year-old standard of 512 bytes per disk-drive sector with 4,096 > bytes. According to IDEMA, larger blocks will add reliability to disk > drives as data sets and drive capacities grow, add less overhead to data > transfer, reduce format time and require shorter periods to scan and > defragment disks. Using larger sectors allows for larger addressing internal to the drive without increased table sizes; drive-level revectoring, for instance. Disks already present a synthetic interface, and the controllers further disconnect the host view from the underlying storage. The classic track, sector and platter geometry -- the C/H/S (cylinder, head, sector) addressing -- went away eons ago, and was purged from OpenVMS a while back, save for synthetic displays for compatibility. Disks have been and are a moving target, and certainly continue to evolve. > It will be interesting (for some) to see how OpenVMS adapts to this > change going forward. Instead of a disk block holding only a half of a > kilobyte, it will then be 4KB - an eight-fold increase. Thus, VMS's > current limit of 1TB per disk volume could grow to 8TB per disk volume. > (A *LOT* of data to lose in a single incident!) SYS$DQDRIVER has been blocking and deblocking 2 KiB sectors (four 512- byte blocks per sector) starting with OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-1H1. This preserves the host view of the storage universe; it avoids having to tear up the whole of the I/O stack up into the applications. OpenVMS I64 deals with some related differences around the console level, as EFI treats disk media and optical CD and DVD media differently. The OpenVMS recording code has to deal with sector allocations. Depending on the details, this sort of change can easily conceivably involve the console program(s), the I/O drivers and OS components, the caches, and -- of course -- the application code. There are various second-level wrinkles here, around sector alignments. There have been various recommendations from the OpenVMS I/O team around using disk clusters that allowed alignment with the underlying sector allocation. Cluster factors of a multiple of 16 were what the good folks had indicated to me as recommended. Various devices can conceivably or already do implement blocking and deblocking at the firmware level -- the host sees 0.5 KiB, the device or the device controller or the controller cache stores larger hunks. Where this gets interesting is when host clusters span these internal boundaries. Depending on various implementation choices, this can be no different than the odd-ball sector sizes already in use (transparent, save for some weirdness in the performance of I/O transfers) or it can involve modifications to application source code. The nice folks working within OpenVMS have traditionally and classically sought to avoid forcing folks to modify applications; upward-compatibility. Yes, this can and will certainly be interesting, assuming these 4 KiB sectors can and do get traction. I/O firmware and device drivers can be a blast to create and work with, when they're not also being severely frustrating. I may well post up a reworded and expanded version of this message at the new web site, given a few cycles. Hoff -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 21:47:52 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Message-ID: Newbie question: When the application requests to read 16k of data, does this generate 1 SCSI command to read 32 sequential blocks ? Or does it result in 32 SCSI commands to read each 512 byte block ? If applications already send SCSI command that request chunks of data that are larger than a physical block, then would it be correct to state that it wouldn't change much in terms of IO load at the OS level ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 22:09:13 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Semi-OT: 4K Disk Blocks? Message-ID: Arne Vajhøj wrote: > My guess is that there will be a lot of broken code out there with > hardcoded 512. Consider RMS, it has the concept of a bucket being a number of 512 byte blocks in a bucket. The start of a bucket is calculated a a logical 512 byte block number. So you could not copy an indexed file from a 512byte disk to a 4k disk since pointers inside the file would now be broken. Unless of course, they do to blocks what they did to pages between VAX and Alpha. Perhaps we'll have blocklets :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 18:38:05 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Message-ID: <464109DD.673B510@spam.comcast.net> Since the question of a "live CD" has already been raised, perhaps this might be redundant. Still, I have to believe that it should be possible to figure out how to load just enough of WhineBloze to let Charon-AXP on x86 look like the big Alpha (ES45 and later, GS1280, etc.) console firmware does before SRM gets control. Boot from hard disk, CD, USB disk*, ... *: I have one of these that I can put any size SD card in. A 2GB SD card is roughly half the (data) size of a DVD. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 07:14:36 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Message-ID: <464158bc$0$16938$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 9-5-2007 1:38 David J Dachtera wrote... > Since the question of a "live CD" has already been raised, perhaps this might be > redundant. > > Still, I have to believe that it should be possible to figure out how to load > just enough of WhineBloze to let Charon-AXP on x86 look like the big Alpha (ES45 > and later, GS1280, etc.) console firmware does before SRM gets control. > > Boot from hard disk, CD, USB disk*, ... > > *: I have one of these that I can put any size SD card in. A 2GB SD card is > roughly half the (data) size of a DVD. > Emulators International is working on signature files (4000, ES45...) for CHARON-AXP. Stripping Windows for loading CHARON-VAX is already well described (what services not to run etc.). ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 12:58:05 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: In article <5abkggF2nsthaU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > It has been said here that commercial PAKs don't expire like Hobbyist PAKs. > I don't have a copy of a VMS license handy at the moment. Can anyone tell > me if there is a provision in the license that would allow HP to revoke it? > I realize this would not make the PAK stop working, but most real businesses > would not operate without a legitimate license in force. There is no such provision in the license agreement on any software license I bought from DEC, Compaq, or HP on any of thier products. As a real business, I think we would hold them to the terms of the license we paid for. Yes, I have dealt with other vendors who provided only yearly rentals. ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 13:03:07 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: In article <5abd58F2mjc9qU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Well, you could stop issuing licenses to run VMS on it (including > Hobbyist licenses!) I think that would do it. > You could stop selling new licenses to run VMS on it, but the last thing HP did in that area was to expand thier licensing to include Charon-VAX. You could stop issuing hobbyist licences, only to make some supporters angry over loss of a no-cost (to HP) option. You couldn't revoke existing commercial licenses since there was no provision in them for that. But you couldn't stop the few who are running a free BSD based UNIX on their VAXen from continuing to do so. So VAX lives on even if VAX/VMS (by any other name) dies. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 17:27:35 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <4640deea$0$16306$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Bob Koehler" wrote in message news:nUKRx35Zd0e5@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article <463fbcfb$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Neil Rieck" > writes: > > Sun doesn't do Windows. That's probably good. They only do UNIX. > That's bad. > I disagree. Solaris is a very popular OS used by industry throughout North America as well as the world. Also, some Sun software (like Java) works on many platforms including WIndows. So Sun does not just "do unix". > >> Unlike HP, Sun has got "Solaris" and "Sun Studio" working on many >> hardware >> platforms (SPARC, x86, x86-64, and whatever that new ROCK thing is). HP, >> on >> the other hand, is going in the other direction and has announced plans >> to >> kill off PA-RISC, Alpha, and VAX while only concentrating on Itanium (but >> not x86 or x86-64). > > Kill off VAX? How do you "kill off" hardware that hasn't been > manufactured in over a decade? > Go to the 10,000 ft view. At the OS level... 1) Sun is expanding their supported hardware base 2) HP is shrinking their supported hardware base These companies are headed in opposite directions. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2007 22:01:09 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <5aca95F2klvcbU1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5abd58F2mjc9qU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> Well, you could stop issuing licenses to run VMS on it (including >> Hobbyist licenses!) I think that would do it. >> > > You could stop selling new licenses to run VMS on it, but the > last thing HP did in that area was to expand thier licensing to > include Charon-VAX. You could stop issuing hobbyist licences, only > to make some supporters angry over loss of a no-cost (to HP) option. > > You couldn't revoke existing commercial licenses since there was no > provision in them for that. Now that I'm home I had checked that and it appears true, however, your current license is only good as long as your current CPU is working. Licenses do not automatically transfer and you are only allowed to use the product "temporarily" and if they refused to issue a new one that would effectively kill it. > > But you couldn't stop the few who are running a free BSD based UNIX > on their VAXen from continuing to do so. So VAX lives on even if > VAX/VMS (by any other name) dies. Well, first, I would imagine that people here are only concerned with VMS and would consider VAX dead once you could no longer run VMS on it. Second, BSD has never been a serious solution for the VAX. Other than the fact that it performs terribly (using Ultrix as a comparison point) and it still doesn't support a lot of hardware (no DSSI, no CI, no graphics, etc.) making it not of much use on anything beyond the Micro- VAX or the 3100. and definitely not as a workstation class machine. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 18:36:53 -0400 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <4640fb86$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Neil Rieck wrote: > HP, on the other hand, is going in the other direction and has > announced plans to kill off PA-RISC, Alpha, and VAX while only > concentrating on Itanium (but not x86 or x86-64). For HP-UX, OpenVMS. They sell a ton of x86/x86-64 with Windows and Linux. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 21:31:34 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: > ...Bringing up "Sun Studio 11" for the first time will remind you of > Microsoft's Visual Studio but they have provided three of their own > compliers: C, C++, and Fortran... There are various IDEs available for various platforms, including the Sun Studio, NetBeans (of which HP OpenVMS engineering has certainly been targeting for a while; Sun Studio is itself based on NetBeans), Eclipse, Visual Suite, Xcode, and others -- these are as much a part of the operating system as not; compilers were once largely separate pieces, and now they're tied into the operating system and its APIs and tools. IDEs are now central to the run-time application environment and vendor and partner software development operations. Xcode has included over two hundred megabytes of manuals and source examples and such built in and periodically updated, and it's not alone in this regard. Unlike the compilers of old, many of these IDEs are also now free. And everybody I know of has program(s) aimed at the developers. In addition to Java and Solaris, Sun is also working with NFS (now at NFSv4.1), has open-sourced most of Solaris, and is just starting to market its Fortress (currently in R&D) language. Sun Fortress certainly looks interesting, though it seems a whole lot like writing source code in a language and a display and an IDE that looks built from the output from TeX; programming in a fully formula-based programming language that was once envisioned as TeX output intended for publication. There's a whole lot going on in the computer hardware and software industry, yes. Both in terms of the products and technologies and tools, and in terms of the marketeering. But this is nothing new. Increasing integration, increasing competition, increasing marketeering, and product prices that continue to drop -- OpenVMS I64 is itself down to about US$900 per core with the FOE package on boxes with one or with two sockets. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 18:39:44 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: SYSMAN problem Message-ID: <46410A40.C00DC096@spam.comcast.net> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article <463E8667.11679E04@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: > > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > > > > From node A I can execute commands via SYSMAN on nodes A, B and C (all > > > are in a cluster). However, from nodes B and C, commands can be > > > executed only on nodes B and C, not on node A, which gives: > > > > > > %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node A > > > -SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable > > > > > > The SMI server is running on node A. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Try: > > > > $ TYPE A::NL: > > > > ....and see if it returns a similar result. If so, troubleshoot DECnet. > > No DECnet running, all nodes in the same cluster. ??? That makes the message all the more puzzling. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 21:54:48 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: tukwila hits iceberg! Message-ID: If the prediction/speculation that Tukwilla's clock won't impress is true, then my prediction that HP/Intel have been working since 2004 to phase out that IA64 thing still holds. They will do to tukwila what they did to EV7. They won't push the clock rate and they will let the 8086 catch up and surpass it. If tukwila is to be more or less on-time at the expense of clock speed, it means that between then and the next one (Poulson ?), the 8086 will have a lot of time to catch up and Poulson will be the last IA64. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 11:44:07 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 VMSINSTAL Bug with RUN_IMAGE Persists? Message-ID: Hi again, > Have you requested one? I searched for the snippet you quote from one of > "COVs kind souls" and can't find it. So I assume that was from an e-mail. > Did he report it? Well I e-mailed him again to ask, and either he's ignoring me, I'm in his kill-file, or my mail's just not getting through. Either way, I found a previous reply confirming that the report did in fact get to VMS Engineering. (See below) Cheers Richard Maher Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:25 AM Subject: VMSINSTAL problem now forwarded to OVMS Engineering > Just to keep ya up to date, my report has been accepted and forwarded > to the relevant OVMS Engineering folks. > -- ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.253 ************************