INFO-VAX Fri, 11 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 258 Contents: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Custom Software Development Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris)) Re: Disabling scp and sftp on ssh-server? Re: Disabling scp and sftp on ssh-server? Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Re: Itanic multi-core vs. multi-CPU SMP Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22 Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22Ma Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22Ma Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22Ma Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: SSH trouble (Was: Has Linux Peaked ?) Re: SSH trouble (Was: Has Linux Peaked ?) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: SYSMAN problem ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 May 2007 02:13:02 -0700 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <1178874782.104129.177370@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On 11 mei, 04:43, Dan Foster wrote: > Was that the 96 MB version (the 'Personal Alpha' product) you've been > using for your personal research and general programming tasks? Yes it was. > Did you have to disable the XFC cache on recent OpenVMS/Alpha versions > to get memory back to use for compiles and such? No I did not have to. /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 02:18:35 -0700 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <1178875115.427905.204100@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On 10 mei, 03:19, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: [snip] > The principle of unzipping a ZIP in a dir and then it > can be started is not the Microsoft way. I know, I know. However: in the meantime, I found out that the Windows GUI in Personal Alpha is only used for maintaining the configuration file and starting the emulator. Once you have configured your environment using the GUI, there is a file ALPHA.CFG in the program directory (this all on Windows). Now when you get to a CMD prompt, you can start the emulator program manually by C:\ > alpha -f alpha.cfg Next step (soon as I get near my Linux box again) is copying over some files and giving this command to Wine (in XP mode). Stay tuned. Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 23:34:39 +1200 From: Tux Wonder-Dog Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <464454f3@clear.net.nz> Neil Rieck wrote: > > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message > news:463E6FAF.1060206@comcast.net... >> Neil Rieck wrote: >>> >>> "JF Mezei" wrote in message >>> news:a3c3b$463e521d$cef8887a$24421@TEKSAVVY.COM... >>> > [...snip...] >>> >>> Since Jihad means "holy war" maybe we should be using the word "Ijtihad" >>> (ij-tee-had) which means "logical discussion and debate"? (or did you >>> have "war" with HP management in mind? :-) >>> > [...snip...] >> >> "Jihad" does NOT mean "holy war". Its literal meaning is more like >> "struggle" in the sense that, say, giving up smoking can be a jihad. >> > From www.dictionary.com (which may not be the best source of information > on this topic) > > ji·had [ji-hahd] > -noun 1. a holy war undertaken as a sacred duty by Muslims. > 2. any vigorous, emotional crusade for an idea or principle. FWIW, "A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran" by John Penrice: jahada aor. a. To be diligent. jahudi n.a. A striving with might and main; the words [...] may be translated "Their most binding oaths". [...] Power, ability. [...] 9 v. 80, "They find nothing (to give) but the fruit of their labour. [...] III. To strive, contend with, fight - especially against the enemies of Islam [...] jihadi n.a. A contending, striving, a going forth to fight (in the Holy War). mujahidi part. act. One who strives, one who goes forth to fight in the cause of Islam. The point of this is that we have to let the people whose language it is, define the meanings of the words they use, and Muslims have made the meaning considerably more extended than "Holy War". (It is perhaps worth taking part in this discussion on the meaning of the word JHD to make clear and plain that jihadi is actually an abstract noun and means striving, contending with someone/something, so the next time some ignoramus talks about "jihadis" in Iraq or whatever, just tell them the proper word in mujahidin, and to keep their ignorant stupidies to themselves, puleeeeze! ;) So, JF Mezei was right in using the word "jihad" because to get your average company to do anything besides what they've already decided they'll do, is a major effort - talk to some Team OS/2 veterans sometime if you want confirmation. FWIW ;) Wesley Parish > > > NSR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:59:49 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: In article <4643B12E.A2C370A8@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >"David Turner, Island Computers" wrote: >> >> Curious... >> Even HP tells me they are quiet. >> I can't believe everyone has stopped buying Alpha systems just because of >> discontinuation > >Well, it's not like this caught anyone off-guard. > >Let's face it - The Alphacide was nigh onto 6 years ago! Folks have had plenty >of time to plan for it. > However with required software not being available on VMS on Itanium (until recently - Oracle, or still PL/1) they couldn't take any action during that period unless their plan was to move away from VMS. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >-- >David J Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page >http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 07:26:17 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Message-ID: <4644467f$0$16336$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "John Santos" wrote in message news:MPG.20a8ba4bc357bb3f989752@news.bellatlantic.net... > [...snip...] > > Unfortunately, using this prototype wouldn't have detected the problem. > > RENAME_ERROR (IIRC) was declared as a long function, so the compiler > would be happy to evaluate it and pass the result as a longword to > LIB$RENAME_FILE. > I was only attempting to show the correct way to call OpenVMS functions from within OpenVMS-BASIC (which many people do not do based upon stuff I've fixed over the past 20 years) The error in the original posting was caused when the complier say this line of code: S%=LIB$RENAME_FILE(FROM$,TO$, , , , ,RENAME_ERROR, , , ,RESULT$, ) The original program declared RENAME_ERROR with 6 parameters but none are present in the call on the offending line. ### In my previous post I showed how to look at the declarations found inside "BASIC$STARLET.TLB" but I'd like to stress that we still rely on the official documentation ROMs. Here is the official definition of LIB$RENAME as published by HP: LIB$RENAME_FILE old-filespec ,new-filespec [,default-filespec] [,related-filespec] [,flags] [,user-success-procedure] [,user-error-procedure] [,user-confirm-procedure] [,user-specified-argument] [,old-resultant-name] [,new-resultant-name] [,file-scan-context] Here we can see that RENAME_ERROR will be called as part of USER-ERROR-PROCEDURE. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:47:21 +0300 From: "Guy Peleg" Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: <46441329$0$16385$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "David B Sneddon" wrote in message news:1178795612.077837.179970@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > On May 10, 6:11 pm, "Guy Peleg" > wrote: >> wrote in message >> >> news:00A675DA.62D7BB5F@SendSpamHere.ORG... >> >> > Is there a PAKGEN update which will recognise the IA64 option for >> > Alpha? >> >> > I know a party that has no in house Itanium box but needs to create >> > PAKs >> > for an Itanium product they sell. >> >> Yes it is possible. Must be running at least OpenVMS V7.3-2. They need to >> contact HP to get a new PAKGEN license (via DSPP). >> >> Guy > > A new PAKGEN PAK is *NOT* required (in my experience). > The problem is the seemingly deliberate prevention of the > task via the CLD on the Alpha. Yes I know....I was the one who broke it. The idea was to break the CLD to have customers come back and ask for new license. This will allow tracking the number of active PAKGEN users. Breaking the CLD was the easiest way as all CLDs are shipping in SYS$UPDATE and it is easy to update the CLD and register the command again in the DCLTABLES. We could have broke LMF.EXE, but shipping a new image is usually more complex. Guy > > Dave > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:58:52 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: <00A67722.4C183113@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <46441329$0$16385$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Guy Peleg" writes: > > > >"David B Sneddon" wrote in message >news:1178795612.077837.179970@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >> On May 10, 6:11 pm, "Guy Peleg" >> wrote: >>> wrote in message >>> >>> news:00A675DA.62D7BB5F@SendSpamHere.ORG... >>> >>> > Is there a PAKGEN update which will recognise the IA64 option for >>> > Alpha? >>> >>> > I know a party that has no in house Itanium box but needs to create >>> > PAKs >>> > for an Itanium product they sell. >>> >>> Yes it is possible. Must be running at least OpenVMS V7.3-2. They need to >>> contact HP to get a new PAKGEN license (via DSPP). >>> >>> Guy >> >> A new PAKGEN PAK is *NOT* required (in my experience). >> The problem is the seemingly deliberate prevention of the >> task via the CLD on the Alpha. > >Yes I know....I was the one who broke it. > >The idea was to break the CLD to have customers come back and ask for new >license. >This will allow tracking the number of active PAKGEN users. In the interim, there is nothing explaining this to "customers" and I have customers who in turn have customers that can't run software because of an inane attempt to track down who uses PAKGEN. Maybe HP could break OpenVMS to see how many customers actively use it! :) For the record, I actively use PAKGEN! ... and OpenVMS! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:51:01 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: In article <00A67722.4C183113@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <46441329$0$16385$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Guy Peleg" > writes: > > > > > >Yes I know....I was the one who broke it. > > > >The idea was to break the CLD to have customers come back and ask for new > >license. > >This will allow tracking the number of active PAKGEN users. > > In the interim, there is nothing explaining this to "customers" and > I have customers who in turn have customers that can't run software > because of an inane attempt to track down who uses PAKGEN. Deliberately breaking a piece of software some people depend on just to force their feedback is really sick and shows complete disrespect for the customers, IMHO. I would have expected that from a company like M$, but not from one which pretends to be in Enterprise computing business. > Maybe HP could break OpenVMS to see how many customers actively use > it! :) > Well, I think they have their estimate already. Just remember one of the earlier posts on that guy responsible for creating distribution CDs, and that an error would mean recreating "thousands of CDs". One may assume this means <10000 CDs. How much is a complete VMS distribution these days, 10 CDs per kit ? This would mean less than 1000 customers left over. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 05:46:11 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: On Thu, 10 May 2007 18:35:42 -0700, David B Sneddon wrote: > On May 10, 11:11 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: >> >> So how do you do it with existing pakgen? >> > > You get a copy of the CLD from an IA64 box and > use that one. > The problem is NOT the PAK but the broken CLD. > > Dave > > DISK$ODIN_SYS:[VMS$COMMON.SYSUPD]LMF.CLD;1 SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]IA64_LMF.CLD;1 So replacing the former eith the latter and a set command does the trick? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 13:54:29 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: <00A6773A.D4E85E48@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > >On Thu, 10 May 2007 18:35:42 -0700, David B Sneddon > wrote: > >> On May 10, 11:11 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: >>> >>> So how do you do it with existing pakgen? >>> >> >> You get a copy of the CLD from an IA64 box and >> use that one. >> The problem is NOT the PAK but the broken CLD. >> >> Dave >> >> > > DISK$ODIN_SYS:[VMS$COMMON.SYSUPD]LMF.CLD;1 > SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]IA64_LMF.CLD;1 > >So replacing the former eith the latter and a set command does the trick? That's it... and V7.3-2 or later. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 07:26:21 -0700 From: David B Sneddon Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: <1178893581.419681.21220@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On May 11, 8:46 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Thu, 10 May 2007 18:35:42 -0700, David B Sneddon > > wrote: > > On May 10, 11:11 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > > >> So how do you do it with existing pakgen? > > > You get a copy of the CLD from an IA64 box and > > use that one. > > The problem is NOT the PAK but the broken CLD. > > > Dave > > DISK$ODIN_SYS:[VMS$COMMON.SYSUPD]LMF.CLD;1 > SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]IA64_LMF.CLD;1 > > So replacing the former eith the latter and a set command does the trick? > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/ Yep. That's all there is to it... Neat trick by HP. Break the CLD. Tell customer that they need a new PAKGEN PAK. Customer gets new PAKGEN PAK and loads it. Shit -- it still doesn't work. I worked on the assumption that there was a common code base on Alpha and IA64 (or most of it) and therefore assumed that the LMF utility was the same on both. The only difference was the CLD, so I copied it and gave it a go. Dave ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 04:38:54 -0700 From: VB Subject: Custom Software Development Message-ID: <1178883534.078385.183620@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> iTechArt Group - Custom Software Development and Offshore outsourcing Company http://www.itechart.com/ Offshore custom software development company iTechArt - Web site and Content Management Solutions development, CMS consulting: Ektron, Drupal and DotNetNuke iTechArt Group provides high quality custom software development services and offshore software development. On December 2006, iTechArt Group became an authorized Microsoft Certified Partner. 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(Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: <46440bf6$1@news.post.ch> Doc schrieb: > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in > news:0Je1ghw6Zulr@eisner.encompasserve.org: > > > >> Other editors I've just seen cited in this thread are much more >> friendly than vi, but less powerfull. It's amaizing what the >> uneducated think is good stuff. > > Show me an editor that can do all TPU does *and* has syntax highlighting > then I might change. In the meantime I'll stick to what I know, which is > TPU and a Windows editor called PFE32 which is useful for small (<5k lines) > files. No problem: Vim for VMS. Vim has about 433 commands (TPU like - keystroke command come extra), 303 functions, 338 settings. You can read the online help - online [2] to see if it meeds your needs. TPU was a great idea at it's time - and still is - but the competition has caught up and overtook. Martin [1] http://www.polarhome.com/vim/ [2] http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/ -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 07:20:33 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: <8YABaNnXbR9R@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , Doc writes: > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in > news:0Je1ghw6Zulr@eisner.encompasserve.org: > > > >> Other editors I've just seen cited in this thread are much more >> friendly than vi, but less powerfull. It's amaizing what the >> uneducated think is good stuff. > > Show me an editor that can do all TPU does *and* has syntax highlighting > then I might change. In the meantime I'll stick to what I know, which is > TPU and a Windows editor called PFE32 which is useful for small (<5k lines) > files. I've got lotd of editors with syntax highlighting and never fonud them usefull except to help dig out C's painfull closed quotes when done in error. I learned to live with that foolish part of C long before I got syntax highlighting so it isn't really usefull. > You use a VMS system as a server, and if you have folks that prefer Unix or > Windows on their desk you mount the code checkout area with Samba or NFS. > They have the tools they're most productive with, and your system manager > stays happy because the end product runs on VMS and doesn't need looked at > too often. I have no problem with people using what they know. I have a problem with people who refuse to learn. We once hired some of the latter, not on my recommendation; they're all gone now. ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 07:28:06 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: In article <4643b466$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: > > Actually I think VMS development tools were market leading in > functionality at one point in time. > > Compare VMS debugger, EVE and CMS with what was available on other > platforms back in the 1980's. Most UNIX lovers will think you're missing gdb, make, SCCS, and/or RCS. I'm quite convinced that these are inferior, but then I'm not a UNIX lover. What I have always found, going back to my PDP-10/SEL-32/Sigma/... days is that DEC's tools were, and still are, quality leaders. (I've been fighting too many battles with IBM Rational Rose, gnu c++, and MS Office lately). And early in the life of HP's ownership of VMS, when I was able to get into a telecon with the VP handling VMS, I made it quite clear that as they completed the port to IA64 and for any future systems I wanted to see DEC-heritage compilers, not HP-heritage compilers. Yes, I've used both. ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 07:28:58 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: In article <4643B4B3.CCA286BB@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > "Main, Kerry" wrote: >> [snip] >> And one wonders where all of the scalability and security issues are >> coming from these days? > > From my perspective re: VMS: > > Security has mostly to do with audit and regulatory compliance. > > Scalability has mostly to do with SuperDome's internal architecture. From my perspective as a professional programmer both have mostly to do with quality design and implementation. ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 07:33:20 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: In article <46440bf6$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: > Doc schrieb: >> >> Show me an editor that can do all TPU does *and* has syntax highlighting >> then I might change. In the meantime I'll stick to what I know, which is >> TPU and a Windows editor called PFE32 which is useful for small (<5k lines) >> files. > > No problem: Vim for VMS. Vim has about 433 commands (TPU like - > keystroke command come extra), 303 functions, 338 settings. You can read > the online help - online [2] to see if it meeds your needs. I use vim on cygwin form time to time. Still looks like painfull vi to me. Where does one find these TPU-like keystroke commands? Does it have a learn capability easier to use than vi's macro capability? What language to I have to write in to extend it? Or do I have to grab the source and edit that? ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 13:05:14 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: <5aj80aF2p77c5U1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > And early in the life of HP's ownership of VMS, when I was able to > get into a telecon with the VP handling VMS, I made it quite clear > that as they completed the port to IA64 and for any future systems > I wanted to see DEC-heritage compilers, not HP-heritage compilers. > Yes, I've used both. And did he fall of his chair laughing at your request? After all, your just the paying customer. It's not like your opinion really matters at HP. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 05:55:18 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: On Thu, 10 May 2007 10:58:25 -0700, Doc wrote: > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in > news:0Je1ghw6Zulr@eisner.encompasserve.org: > > > >> Other editors I've just seen cited in this thread are much more >> friendly than vi, but less powerfull. It's amaizing what the >> uneducated think is good stuff. > > Show me an editor that can do all TPU does *and* has syntax highlighting > then I might change. In the meantime I'll stick to what I know, which is > TPU and a Windows editor called PFE32 which is useful for small (<5k > lines) > files. Emacs had that 25 years ago, there is a lisp package for most languages, including our favourite. Moreover, I can open a file anywhere on the web where I am authenicated. > > You use a VMS system as a server, and if you have folks that prefer Unix > or > Windows on their desk you mount the code checkout area with Samba or NFS. > They have the tools they're most productive with, and your system manager > stays happy because the end product runs on VMS and doesn't need looked > at > too often. > > > Doc. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 05:57:14 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2007 05:33:20 -0700, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <46440bf6$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik > writes: >> Doc schrieb: >>> >>> Show me an editor that can do all TPU does *and* has syntax >>> highlighting >>> then I might change. In the meantime I'll stick to what I know, which >>> is >>> TPU and a Windows editor called PFE32 which is useful for small (<5k >>> lines) >>> files. >> >> No problem: Vim for VMS. Vim has about 433 commands (TPU like - >> keystroke command come extra), 303 functions, 338 settings. You can read >> the online help - online [2] to see if it meeds your needs. > > I use vim on cygwin form time to time. Still looks like painfull vi > to me. > > Where does one find these TPU-like keystroke commands? You can customize Emacs to do that, you just need to learn Lisp. In fact, there is even a vi mode! > > Does it have a learn capability easier to use than vi's macro > capability? > > What language to I have to write in to extend it? Or do I have to > grab the source and edit that? > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 05:52:15 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Message-ID: On Thu, 10 May 2007 17:01:19 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Martin Krischik wrote: >> http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm > > I know that one reader here will think one language is > missing ... > > Arne > Lines of code in production is the real measure -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:57:41 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <46444c25$1@news.post.ch> Hunter Goatley schrieb: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> In article <4643b24b$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, >>> =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >>>> Martin Krischik wrote: >>>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm >>>> I know that one reader here will think one language is >>>> missing ... >>> >>> There's no Macro32! >> >> Or Bliss. >> > BLISS is the one I thought of first. ;-) Then start BLISS Websites, BLISS Blogs, Discuss BLISS on the usenet - and make sure the phrase "BLISS Programming" is used as well. Once BLISS makes it into the Top 100 then you are in. And for say place 17 you need about 264,000 Google hits ;-). Martin -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 15:57:18 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <4644763f$1@news.post.ch> Tom Linden schrieb: > On Thu, 10 May 2007 17:01:19 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> Martin Krischik wrote: >>> http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm >> >> I know that one reader here will think one language is >> missing ... >> >> Arne >> > Lines of code in production is the real measure Not if you want to make a look into the future. "Stillstand ist Rückschritt" as we say in Germany - "To stand still is to step back". So the real measure - at least if you are more interested in the future then the past - would be "Delta Lines of code in production". Of course you can't measure that. Martin -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 15:38:43 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris)) Message-ID: <464471e4@news.post.ch> Bob Koehler schrieb: > In article <46440bf6$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: >> Doc schrieb: >>> Show me an editor that can do all TPU does *and* has syntax highlighting >>> then I might change. In the meantime I'll stick to what I know, which is >>> TPU and a Windows editor called PFE32 which is useful for small (<5k lines) >>> files. >> No problem: Vim for VMS. Vim has about 433 commands (TPU like - >> keystroke command come extra), 303 functions, 338 settings. You can read >> the online help - online [2] to see if it meeds your needs. > > I use vim on cygwin form time to time. Still looks like painfull vi > to me. That's because on most system Vim is also used a vi replacement. Make sure to either use vim or gvim as command and not vi. The later will activate the compatibility mode. Next step would be to have a look at http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/options.html > Where does one find these TPU-like keystroke commands? Vim has more modes then vi. Here an overview: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Learning_the_vi_editor/Vim/Modes Now AFAIK TPU is a programming language - so you have me confused here. Maybe you are looking for: http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/map.html > Does it have a learn capability easier to use than vi's macro capability? Since you mentioned LEARN elsewhere: Vim has a macro recorder as well: http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/repeat.html#complex-repeat > What language to I have to write in to extend it? Or do I have to > grab the source and edit that? For once there is VimScript: http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/usr_41.html If you don't like that you can also use Perl, Python, Ruby, Scheme, or Tcl - provided the language is installed on the System. Strange but true: the only extra language I got working in Vim/VMS is Ruby ;-) . Martin -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 08:50:01 -0400 From: "Richard Whalen" Subject: Re: Disabling scp and sftp on ssh-server? Message-ID: "Pekka Lylykorpi" wrote in message news:f1v6am$4ja$1@news.cc.tut.fi... >I have OpenVMS knowledge next to zero but I try to explain our > problem with ssh2 on OpenVMS. > > We have an application on started directly (in LOGIN.COM) > when users log in and when users quit that application they > will be automatically logged out. They don't see any files > on file system level (ftp is not granted). When they use > telnet this works fine. > > But when ssh (Ssh Communications Tectia client) is used > instead of telnet people can also use it's integrated file > transfer and see and access files on file system level. Is > there any mean to limit that access (to disable both sftp > and scp)? Comment out the line that begins subsystem-sftp in sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ssh.ssh2]SSHD2_CONFIG. ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 15:15:02 +0200 From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Disabling scp and sftp on ssh-server? Message-ID: <46448876$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , "Richard Whalen" writes: >Comment out the line that begins > subsystem-sftp >in sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ssh.ssh2]SSHD2_CONFIG. It's TCPIP$SSH_DEVICE:[TCPIP$SSH.SSH2]SSHD2_CONFIG. (usually SYS$SYSDEVICE ;-) And how to do this user specific? I think it would be better to restrict the file access to SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SSH_SFTP-SERVER2.EXE via ACLs... -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 10:45:43 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Message-ID: <1178905543.590188.8520@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 30, 7:54 am, Doc wrote: > gen...@marblecliff.com wrote innews:1177933256.937443.28610@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > > > funny, TCPware ssh2 works just fine ... configures in minutes ... > > And - yet again - you prove you're a clueless git Boob. > > TCPware only works because God wants it to. > > Or was it the fact that you're too dense to understand what the guy's > problem with ssh is? He wants to use a key, not a password. > > Personally I suspect that any/all of the Process staff that lurk in this > newsgroup wish you'd stop mentioning their products and being an > embarrassing associate. > > Doc. hey Dic, what does it say here? http://www.process.com/tcpip/sshcompare.html ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 10:49:57 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Message-ID: <1178905797.291947.191190@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Apr 30, 7:54 am, Doc wrote: > gen...@marblecliff.com wrote innews:1177933256.937443.28610@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > > > funny, TCPware ssh2 works just fine ... configures in minutes ... > > And - yet again - you prove you're a clueless git Boob. > > TCPware only works because God wants it to. > > Or was it the fact that you're too dense to understand what the guy's > problem with ssh is? He wants to use a key, not a password. > > Personally I suspect that any/all of the Process staff that lurk in this > newsgroup wish you'd stop mentioning their products and being an > embarrassing associate. > > Doc. and how about here Dic? try reading the security section comparision if you can ... http://www.process.com/tcpip/tcpcompare.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:40:57 +0300 From: "Guy Peleg" Subject: Re: Itanic multi-core vs. multi-CPU SMP Message-ID: <464411a9$0$12034$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Rich Jordan" wrote in message news:1178809143.850294.224120@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > Does VMS on a current itanic box with multicore CPUs treat those cores > as equivalent to separate CPUs using the normal SMP support? Not > asking about licensing (which is well documented as requiring per-core > licenses), but actual VMS operation on such a box. Each core is identified by VMS as a CPU. Issue a SHOW CPU command on a system with one dual core processor and you will see 2 CPUs displayed. Each CPU is a physical scheduling entity and will behave from a scheduling point of view like a 2 CPUs Alpha system. > > If you have a dual processor dual core itanic and set up > hyperthreading, are the 'virtual' CPUs then treated as additional SMP > CPUs also? If you turn on HyperThreads (which are turned off by default), each thread is viewed as a scheduling entity to the O/S so, 1 dual core processor with hyperthreads enabled, will be seen by the O/S as 4 CPUs. Note that hyperthreads are logical entities, only one co thread can be active at any given time. Official marketing number from Intel talk about 25% increase in performance when enabling hyperthreads. This is not true for all applications, some may actually see performance degradation. The biggest increase I've seen is 23%, the biggest decrease was 14%. Guy Peleg BRUDEN-OSSG http://www.brudenossg.com > > Thanks. I'm just trying to get a feel for VMS specific operations on > these newer boxes compared to more traditional multi-CPU units, and so > far the docs don't have much to say (which to me implies it really is > treated as normal SMP, which is fine). > > Rich > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:37:06 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22 Message-ID: Doug Kimball wrote: > And the winners are: > 1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. Come to think of it, "The Shining" should have been the perfect movie for VMS. Replace Jack Nicholson with Robert Palmer, the wife with VMS, and the son with VMS applications. Despital Palmer's non-stop efforts, the wife and kid survive. Battered, tired, hurt, injured, but they survive. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:49:57 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22 Message-ID: FredK wrote: > The theatrical release sucked (movie studio people are thick). The > directors cut is much, much better - if extreamly dark. After a conference in Taipei, I went cycling in Taiwan. First night outside of the comforts of a hotel where they spoke english, and after getting lost due to inability to read road signs, I ended up in the "small" town of ChinSan (a 2 gibberish symbols town name). It was dark, raining, cool, and it felt exactly like the mood portrayed early in the film when harrison ford's character is eating his meal. I was able to find a building with roman letters "H O T E and L" on it, and they were nice and gave me a room high enough to have a window. (eg: higher than neighbouring buildings). It was a window with view of the harbour and giant animated billboards, exactly like seen in Blade Runner. It was a surreal experience. Interestingly, later in that trip I also went to Hong Kong and went to Kowloon where they actually shot those scenes and it didn't even come close to matching the mood of the movie compared to my experience at ChinSan. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:36:30 -0400 From: "Doug Kimball" Subject: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: <3vWdnQEzRfz97NnbnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@pghconnect.com> Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very helpful! And the winners are: 1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. Tied for second (or is that third?): 2.5) Sneakers 2.5) Galaxy Quest If you'd like the chance to win one of these movies or a DVD player to play them on, come to the HP Partners' Roundhouse on Tuesday, May 22 from 6 pm to 9 pm at the Sheraton in Nashua, stop by the Software Partners' table, and drop off your business card. And remember, "I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life, anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die." "But the key meeting took place July 3rd, 1958, when the Air Force brought the space visitor to the White House for an interview with President Eisenhower. And Ike said, 'Hey look, give us your technology, we'll give you all the cow lips you want.'" "Quellek... by Grabthar's hammer... by the Sons of Warvan... you shall be... avenged." Doug -- Doug Kimball Manager, Sales and Support Software Partners, Inc. 978-887-6409 tech_support@softwarepartners.com www.softwarepartners.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 13:56:25 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: <00A6773B.1A23B186@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <3vWdnQEzRfz97NnbnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@pghconnect.com>, "Doug Kimball" writes: > > >Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very helpful! > >And the winners are: > >1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. I never heard of it... but then, I don't watch TV. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:14:29 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: wrote in message news:00A6773B.1A23B186@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In article <3vWdnQEzRfz97NnbnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@pghconnect.com>, "Doug > Kimball" writes: >> >> >>Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very helpful! >> >>And the winners are: >> >>1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. > > I never heard of it... but then, I don't watch TV. > TV? It was a movie. Get it on DVD if you missed it. Blade Runner, based on the 1968 novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" by Phillip K Dick 1982 Movie directed by Ridley Scott. Starring Harrison Ford, Daryl Hannah, Rutger Hauer, Sean Young. The theatrical release sucked (movie studio people are thick). The directors cut is much, much better - if extreamly dark. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:17:43 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: Wasn't "Blade Runner" based on a short story by Philip K. Dick, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" ..and TV has nothing to do with it AFAICS. [Grammar question: Does the question mark in the first sentence, above, serve both the title and the sentence, itself?] VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote on 05/11/2007 09:56:25 AM: > In article <3vWdnQEzRfz97NnbnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@pghconnect.com>, "Doug > Kimball" writes: > > > > > >Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very helpful! > > > >And the winners are: > > > >1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. > > I never heard of it... but then, I don't watch TV. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 07:07:06 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2007 07:14:29 -0700, FredK wrote: > > wrote in message > news:00A6773B.1A23B186@SendSpamHere.ORG... >> In article <3vWdnQEzRfz97NnbnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@pghconnect.com>, "Doug >> Kimball" writes: >>> >>> >>> Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very >>> helpful! >>> >>> And the winners are: >>> >>> 1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. >> >> I never heard of it... but then, I don't watch TV. >> > > TV? It was a movie. Get it on DVD if you missed it. > > Blade Runner, based on the 1968 novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric > Sheep" > by Phillip K Dick > 1982 Movie directed by Ridley Scott. Starring Harrison Ford, Daryl > Hannah, > Rutger Hauer, Sean Young. > > The theatrical release sucked (movie studio people are thick). The > directors cut is much, much better - if extreamly dark. > > > Maybe someone can find a copy of "Sins of the Fleshapoids" ca. `66 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 14:47:16 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: <00A67742.342AB9A6@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "FredK" writes: > > > > wrote in message >news:00A6773B.1A23B186@SendSpamHere.ORG... >> In article <3vWdnQEzRfz97NnbnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@pghconnect.com>, "Doug >> Kimball" writes: >>> >>> >>>Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very helpful! >>> >>>And the winners are: >>> >>>1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. >> >> I never heard of it... but then, I don't watch TV. >> > >TV? It was a movie. Get it on DVD if you missed it. > >Blade Runner, based on the 1968 novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" >by Phillip K Dick >1982 Movie directed by Ridley Scott. Starring Harrison Ford, Daryl Hannah, >Rutger Hauer, Sean Young. > >The theatrical release sucked (movie studio people are thick). The >directors cut is much, much better - if extreamly dark. I have a library of convert DVDs I still haven't watched. I think I'd enjoy that more than any movie. I do, however, hope it is better than the Star Wars thing which I still haven't seen to conclusion. I bought it because the kids wanted it. I usually get as far as the first sight- ing of the little beeping trash bin on wheels and then lose it. How is it so popular? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:09:42 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: wrote in message news:OF59586CA8.463C3AC7-ON852572D8.004E495E-852572D8.004E875D@metso.com... > Wasn't "Blade Runner" based on a short story by Philip K. Dick, "Do > Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" > ..and TV has nothing to do with it AFAICS. > It was a novel. My father belonged to the Doubleday Science Fiction Bookclub when I was a kid (I get to blame reading science fiction on him). It was first published by Doubleday in 1968. It was an expanded version of the short story The Little Black Box (Worlds of Tomorrow, August 1964). Good book. It was't say quite up to the level of Stand on Zanzibar (John Brunner, also Doubleday 1968) which I read the same year. Or one I always wondered why it never made it to the movies - Shockwave Rider (Brunner, 1975) - which actually coined the term computer "worm" and pretty much imagined the internet (but believed that the phone company would actually create it). Another I always thought would be made into a movie was the Adolescence of P1 (1977, Tom Ryan). Or Arthur C Clarke's classic Childhoods End (1953). Or anything by Heinlein after about 1960 (they were fun, but Star Ship Troopers, 1959 might as well be E.E. Doc Smith). I stopped reading science fiction when bookstores decided that they could not differentiate between really bad "fantasy" and science fiction (and some quite bad science fiction writers churned out junk)... of course except for the only fantasy novels worth reading - Terry Pratchett's Disk World series ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:04:36 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote on 05/11/2007 10:47:16 AM: > In article , "FredK" nospam@dec.com> writes: > > > > > > > > wrote in message > >news:00A6773B.1A23B186@SendSpamHere.ORG... > >> In article <3vWdnQEzRfz97NnbnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@pghconnect.com>, "Doug > >> Kimball" writes: > >>> > >>> > >>>Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very helpful! > >>> > >>>And the winners are: > >>> > >>>1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. > >> > >> I never heard of it... but then, I don't watch TV. > >> > > > >TV? It was a movie. Get it on DVD if you missed it. > > > >Blade Runner, based on the 1968 novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" > >by Phillip K Dick > >1982 Movie directed by Ridley Scott. Starring Harrison Ford, Daryl Hannah, > >Rutger Hauer, Sean Young. > > > >The theatrical release sucked (movie studio people are thick). The > >directors cut is much, much better - if extreamly dark. > > I have a library of convert DVDs I still haven't watched. I think I'd > enjoy that more than any movie. I do, however, hope it is better than > the Star Wars thing which I still haven't seen to conclusion. I bought > it because the kids wanted it. I usually get as far as the first sight- > ing of the little beeping trash bin on wheels and then lose it. No, no, no! The trash bin on wheels is a Dalek ("Ex-ter-min-ate!, ex-ter-min-ate!) from the "Dr. Who" British TV series, also available on DVD, and you're likely not to get that, either ;) . > How is it so popular? > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:27:09 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: wrote in message news:00A67742.342AB9A6@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In article , "FredK" > writes: > > I have a library of convert DVDs I still haven't watched. I think I'd > enjoy that more than any movie. I do, however, hope it is better than > the Star Wars thing which I still haven't seen to conclusion. I bought > it because the kids wanted it. I usually get as far as the first sight- > ing of the little beeping trash bin on wheels and then lose it. How is > it so popular? > In the old days, I divided science fiction into "hard science fiction" & "science fiction fantasy", and "social commentary using science fiction" & "space opera". Star Wars is very much a horse-opera (western) in space. Even the originals were never my favorites, and the prequils bore me to tears. Think E.E. "Doc" Smith who wrote the Lensman novels (heck, which were ancient when I read them in paperbacks when I was a kid) and who George Lucas credits with influencing him as a kid. Phillip K. Dick was more a "social commentary using science fiction" kind of writer on the "hard science fiction" side. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:36:36 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:464489A7.7040100@comcast.net... >> > > Blood is thicker than water: except in Ankh Morpork! ;-) > There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass! -- (Terry Pratchett, The Truth) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:43:21 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:46448CFD.2040202@comcast.net... >> >> Think E.E. "Doc" Smith who wrote the Lensman novels (heck, which were >> ancient when I read them in paperbacks when I was a kid) and who George >> Lucas credits with influencing him as a kid. >> > > Hey Junior! I was a kid when the Lensman series was published! I didn't > have the ~$4.95 each that they cost. I subsequently read them in > paperback in the 60's and then purchased the Fantasy Press Editions (used) > a few years later. > Hey pops! The original pulp sci-fi! They were written in the 30's and 40's but didn't make it into paperbacks until the late 40s and mid 50s. The first story was actually in Amazing Stories in January 1934! I'm assuming you aren't *that* old ;-) I borrowed the paperbacks to read from my dad sometime in the late 60's when I was a young teen. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 18:44:25 +0200 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: wrote: > VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote on 05/11/2007 09:56:25 AM: >> "Doug Kimball" writes: >> > And the winners are: >> > 1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. >> >> I never heard of it... but then, I don't watch TV. > > Wasn't "Blade Runner" based on a short story by Philip K. Dick, "Do > Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" Yes it is - loosely. "Read a Great Movie" :-) cu, Martin -- One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:20:07 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22Ma Message-ID: <464489A7.7040100@comcast.net> FredK wrote: > wrote in message > news:OF59586CA8.463C3AC7-ON852572D8.004E495E-852572D8.004E875D@metso.com... > >>Wasn't "Blade Runner" based on a short story by Philip K. Dick, "Do >>Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" >>..and TV has nothing to do with it AFAICS. >> > > > It was a novel. My father belonged to the Doubleday Science Fiction > Bookclub when I was a kid (I get to blame reading science fiction on him). > It was first published by Doubleday in 1968. It was an expanded version of > the short story The Little Black Box (Worlds of Tomorrow, August 1964). > > Good book. It was't say quite up to the level of Stand on Zanzibar (John > Brunner, also Doubleday 1968) which I read the same year. > > Or one I always wondered why it never made it to the movies - Shockwave > Rider (Brunner, 1975) - which actually coined the term computer "worm" and > pretty much imagined the internet (but believed that the phone company would > actually create it). Another I always thought would be made into a movie > was the Adolescence of P1 (1977, Tom Ryan). Or Arthur C Clarke's classic > Childhoods End (1953). Or anything by Heinlein after about 1960 (they were > fun, but Star Ship Troopers, 1959 might as well be E.E. Doc Smith). > > I stopped reading science fiction when bookstores decided that they could > not differentiate between really bad "fantasy" and science fiction (and some > quite bad science fiction writers churned out junk)... of course except for > the only fantasy novels worth reading - Terry Pratchett's Disk World series > ;-) > > > Blood is thicker than water: except in Ankh Morpork! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:28:46 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22Ma Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > I have a library of convert DVDs I still haven't watched. I think I'd > enjoy that more than any movie. I know what Brian is going to get for his birthday! Folks can send me contributions on PayPal or small unmarked US currency at bootcamp. :-) -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:34:21 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22Ma Message-ID: <46448CFD.2040202@comcast.net> FredK wrote: > wrote in message > news:00A67742.342AB9A6@SendSpamHere.ORG... > >>In article , "FredK" >> writes: > > >>I have a library of convert DVDs I still haven't watched. I think I'd >>enjoy that more than any movie. I do, however, hope it is better than >>the Star Wars thing which I still haven't seen to conclusion. I bought >>it because the kids wanted it. I usually get as far as the first sight- >>ing of the little beeping trash bin on wheels and then lose it. How is >>it so popular? >> > > > In the old days, I divided science fiction into "hard science fiction" & > "science fiction fantasy", and "social commentary using science fiction" & > "space opera". Star Wars is very much a horse-opera (western) in space. > Even the originals were never my favorites, and the prequils bore me to > tears. > > Think E.E. "Doc" Smith who wrote the Lensman novels (heck, which were > ancient when I read them in paperbacks when I was a kid) and who George > Lucas credits with influencing him as a kid. > Hey Junior! I was a kid when the Lensman series was published! I didn't have the ~$4.95 each that they cost. I subsequently read them in paperback in the 60's and then purchased the Fantasy Press Editions (used) a few years later. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 08:09:50 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <464408af$1@news.post.ch> Bob Koehler schrieb: > In article <4643292c$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: >> And they did not run into trouble? After all Ada.Unchecked_Conversion >> (Note: all upper case has been given up in Ada long ago) makes a bit >> copy of the data which can have all sorts of interesting effects - >> especially when the source and destination are of different size. > > The source and destination were all longwords. I know Ada is not > case sensitive, but the programming standards they used had all > Ada keywords in uppercase. Yes, they where the programming standard of Ada 83 - they where superseded with Ada 95 for Camel_Case_With_Underscore. And just like FORTRAN - ALL_UPPER_CLASE is now considered very old fashioned. Note that 2 month ago Ada 2005 was ratified (ISO took there time) - And yes there is an Ada 2005 compiler available for VMS [1] :-). Martin [1] http://www.adacore.com -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 07:15:46 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > > Unfortunately, using PID_TYPE'image(PID_VALUE) as the value in the > parameter to $ STOP /ID=xxx won't work for PID's higher than 00000009 > > STOP /ID expects hexadecimal text. 'image (to the extent that it > provides a well-defined value at all -- I don't know chapter and verse > about the 'image that results when the programmer applies it > willy nilly to an opaque type) produces decimal text. Why in the world would anyone use a DCL command inside Ada? The routine STOP/ID calls for you is directly callable from any programing language. ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 07:17:57 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <00jNar7ZtEXb@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <464408af$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: > > Yes, they where the programming standard of Ada 83 - they where > superseded with Ada 95 for Camel_Case_With_Underscore. And just like > FORTRAN - ALL_UPPER_CLASE is now considered very old fashioned. And just like our FORTRAN IV (aka 66) code, we haven't changed a line of it that we didn't actually need to just because the language standard moved forward. ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 08:05:39 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: >> >> Unfortunately, using PID_TYPE'image(PID_VALUE) as the value in the >> parameter to $ STOP /ID=xxx won't work for PID's higher than 00000009 >> >> STOP /ID expects hexadecimal text. 'image (to the extent that it >> provides a well-defined value at all -- I don't know chapter and verse >> about the 'image that results when the programmer applies it >> willy nilly to an opaque type) produces decimal text. > > Why in the world would anyone use a DCL command inside Ada? The > routine STOP/ID calls for you is directly callable from any > programing language. Why in the world would you want to use $DELPRC on a program that you just ran $CREPRC on when the spec called for you to return the PID as a DCL symbol and exit. ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 08:27:34 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <954nprWYD+G8@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <464408af$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: > Bob Koehler schrieb: >> In article <4643292c$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: >>> And they did not run into trouble? After all Ada.Unchecked_Conversion >>> (Note: all upper case has been given up in Ada long ago) makes a bit >>> copy of the data which can have all sorts of interesting effects - >>> especially when the source and destination are of different size. >> >> The source and destination were all longwords. I know Ada is not >> case sensitive, but the programming standards they used had all >> Ada keywords in uppercase. > > Yes, they where the programming standard of Ada 83 - they where > superseded with Ada 95 for Camel_Case_With_Underscore. And just like > FORTRAN - ALL_UPPER_CLASE is now considered very old fashioned. Note that this is just a stylistic change for examples - nothing to do with the definition of the language. I prefer the old style, so something in mixed case (easier to read) is going to be a comment (or literal string). ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 23:41:56 -0700 From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Message-ID: <1178865716.504830.53620@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Dave, SRI documents CHARON-VAX tips in so-called Application Notes (AN) on their WEB page: http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/app_notes.htm#an AN-033 describes the required Windows Services. re: CHARON signature files (future product enhancement) AFAIK, these will be used to make the CHARON emulator look more like the real system. Don't expect them to be used to give you the 'real' performance for anything beyond EV5. Volker. http://www.invenate.de ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 02:35:46 -0700 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Message-ID: <1178876145.988744.75900@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On 11 mei, 02:09, David J Dachtera wrote: [snip] > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of starting with the install > environment, and building from there adding only what is needed to run > Charon-AXP - should probably total up to less than 50MB on disk, certainly no > more than 100MB. > > See the minicab's on the W/9x install CDs for an example. You may want to look at the Windows pre-installation environment, see http://www.bartpe.com for a useful approach. I've been using this system for some years now, to create a "restore" CD with just my drive imaging software. Not unlike a "tailored" VMS system, really, remember way back when we created a "minimal" VMS system on RL02 disks that contained a bit more than just (standalone) backup? /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 02:41:55 -0700 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Message-ID: <1178876515.150362.251790@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On 11 mei, 08:41, Volker Halle wrote: [snip] > re: CHARON signature files (future product enhancement) > > AFAIK, these will be used to make the CHARON emulator look more like > the real system. Don't expect them to be used to give you the 'real' > performance for anything beyond EV5. Exactly. But still, the *feeling* of power... :-) ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 02:46:17 -0700 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Message-ID: <1178876777.778023.269460@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On 11 mei, 02:09, David J Dachtera wrote: [snip] > Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of starting with the install > environment, and building from there adding only what is needed to run > Charon-AXP - should probably total up to less than 50MB on disk, certainly no > more than 100MB. > > See the minicab's on the W/9x install CDs for an example. You may want to look at the Windows pre-installation environment, see http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder for a useful approach. I've been using this system for some years now, to create a "restore" CD with just my drive imaging software. Not unlike a "tailored" VMS system, really, remember way back when we created a "minimal" VMS system on RL02 disks that contained a bit more than just (standalone) backup? /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:59:54 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: <8c678$4644a11d$cef8887a$13656@TEKSAVVY.COM> Is it really worth fighting against HP for the survival of VMS ? What would happen if the VMS community were to start to help HP in very visible and public ways and convince the press and people that HP is truly winding down VMS and expecting people to switch to HP-UX ? The community has been fighting actively for the last 15 years, and while the various owners may not have had the guts to officially retire VMS, the community has not been succesful at changing the owner's minds on the concept of promoting and growing VMS. The Cerner bit about moving from VMS to HP-UX really shows that the Stallards of HP are having they ways and that the original May 7th 2002 memo has always been HP's strategy towards VMS and that HP has worked behind the scenes to slowly implement it. is it really worth fighting ? When you consider that many VMS engineers are leaving one by one, (like rats leaving a sinking ship), and you consider the Cerner issue, perhaps VMS is now truly terminal ? VMS has been attacked by the Palmer cancer, by Compaq and now folks like Stallard et all at HP. The community may have been able to slow the cancer's growth, but eventually it does grow to a point where you can't control its downfall anymore, at which point, you give the patient morphine for a peaceful death. When it gets to that point, you do not wish to prolong life. Is there really a point in fighting for VMS ? ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 10:26:37 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: <1178904397.413731.136820@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On May 11, 12:59 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Is it really worth fighting against HP for the survival of VMS ? > > What would happen if the VMS community were to start to help HP in very > visible and public ways and convince the press and people that HP is > truly winding down VMS and expecting people to switch to HP-UX ? > > The community has been fighting actively for the last 15 years, and > while the various owners may not have had the guts to officially retire > VMS, the community has not been succesful at changing the owner's minds > on the concept of promoting and growing VMS. > > The Cerner bit about moving from VMS to HP-UX really shows that the > Stallards of HP are having they ways and that the original May 7th 2002 > memo has always been HP's strategy towards VMS and that HP has worked > behind the scenes to slowly implement it. > > is it really worth fighting ? > > When you consider that many VMS engineers are leaving one by one, (like > rats leaving a sinking ship), and you consider the Cerner issue, perhaps > VMS is now truly terminal ? > > VMS has been attacked by the Palmer cancer, by Compaq and now folks like > Stallard et all at HP. The community may have been able to slow the > cancer's growth, but eventually it does grow to a point where you can't > control its downfall anymore, at which point, you give the patient > morphine for a peaceful death. > > When it gets to that point, you do not wish to prolong life. > > Is there really a point in fighting for VMS ? they should not be lying to customers! And if HP does not want VMS then you should tell them to sell it to someone who has the goal of making it the number one os where it should be ... you tell them like we have that we have a lot invested in vms and we are not leaving, and if forced to we will go to IBM and NEVER buy another HP product (incl. ink cartridges) again! ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 13:28:45 -0500 From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: JF Mezei writes: > When you consider that many VMS engineers are leaving one by one, (like > rats leaving a sinking ship), and you consider the Cerner issue, perhaps > VMS is now truly terminal ? I do not consider myself a rat, and I do take offence at the insinuation. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 13:51:17 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote on 05/11/2007 02:28:45 PM: > JF Mezei writes: > > > When you consider that many VMS engineers are leaving one by one, (like > > rats leaving a sinking ship), and you consider the Cerner issue, perhaps > > VMS is now truly terminal ? > > I do not consider myself a rat, and I do take offence at the insinuation. I do not consider you a rat, either, and I take offense at the simile, myself. (You did mean offense, didn't you?) Now just how would you describe those taking the buyouts.... ;) > > -- > > Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 10:47:01 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: SSH trouble (Was: Has Linux Peaked ?) Message-ID: <1178905621.030456.71880@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Apr 30, 10:03 am, Doc wrote: > Martin Krischik wrote in news:4635eabf$1 > @news.post.ch: > > > > > > > gen...@marblecliff.com schrieb: > >> On Apr 30, 6:35 am, Martin Krischik > >> wrote: > > >> funny, TCPware ssh2 works just fine ... configures in minutes ... > > > Well, don't know which ssh out Administrators supplied us with but it > > gives me only grieve: > > > ---- Copy File from Windows to VMS --------------------------- > > >scp jusched.log krischik@xxxxx: > > scp1 compatibility mode is not supported. > > Connection to xxxxx closed by remote host. > > ---- Copy File from Windows to VMS --------------------------- > > > "scp1 compatibility" - Why - both sides should support scp2! > > > Or I am asked for passwords even when keys are installed: > > Don't waste your time with Boob, he wouldn't know an SSH key if you > tattooed one on his forehead. > > Ask your sysadmin people which IP stack they are using (there are several > for VMS) and for a link to the documentation. It may be an OpenSSH > server and the key needs converted. It may not even be configured for > operation with keys and you need that enabled. > > Doc.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - hey Dic, read this ... http://www.process.com/tcpip/sshcompare.html ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 10:50:28 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: SSH trouble (Was: Has Linux Peaked ?) Message-ID: <1178905828.340106.20500@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 30, 10:03 am, Doc wrote: > Martin Krischik wrote in news:4635eabf$1 > @news.post.ch: > > > > > > > gen...@marblecliff.com schrieb: > >> On Apr 30, 6:35 am, Martin Krischik > >> wrote: > > >> funny, TCPware ssh2 works just fine ... configures in minutes ... > > > Well, don't know which ssh out Administrators supplied us with but it > > gives me only grieve: > > > ---- Copy File from Windows to VMS --------------------------- > > >scp jusched.log krischik@xxxxx: > > scp1 compatibility mode is not supported. > > Connection to xxxxx closed by remote host. > > ---- Copy File from Windows to VMS --------------------------- > > > "scp1 compatibility" - Why - both sides should support scp2! > > > Or I am asked for passwords even when keys are installed: > > Don't waste your time with Boob, he wouldn't know an SSH key if you > tattooed one on his forehead. > > Ask your sysadmin people which IP stack they are using (there are several > for VMS) and for a link to the documentation. It may be an OpenSSH > server and the key needs converted. It may not even be configured for > operation with keys and you need that enabled. > > Doc.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - hey Dic, what does it say here under security? http://www.process.com/tcpip/tcpcompare.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 07:39:59 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <464449b5$0$16351$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Neil Rieck" wrote in message news:4641f45b$0$8173$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > The reason for my original post was to show how Sun is using "their software" to promote "their hardware". This Sun-Solaris article provides another glimpse of their strategy. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9593_22-6182526.html?tag=nl.e622 p.s. And I would hope that HP develops a similar strategy. Charging top dollars to licence their high quality OpenVMS compliers only works as long as people are using OpenVMS. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:55:11 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: In article <4643C078.3000305@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >John Smith wrote: >> Bob Koehler wrote: >> >>>In article <4640deea$0$16306$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Neil >>>Rieck" writes: >>> >>>>"Bob Koehler" wrote in >>>>message news:nUKRx35Zd0e5@eisner.encompasserve.org... >>>> >>>>>In article <463fbcfb$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Neil >>>>>Rieck" writes: >>>>> >Sybase saw the handwriting on the wall many years ago and dropped >support for VMS. ISTR that 31-DEC-2001 was the last supported date. > Ten or fifteen years ago there was a book about three inches thick >that listed available applications for VMS. There were a few thousand >of them. AFAIK, the book is no longer published. > As I recall Sybase dropped support for a large number of operating systems at the same time they dropped support for VMS. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 2007 07:39:37 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: SYSMAN problem Message-ID: <$$NbX84Zu5PT@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <31781$4643e312$cef8887a$29845@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > David J Dachtera wrote: >> Indeed - VMS clusters do not depend on DECnet at all. > > MAIL still relies on DECNET between nodes that do not share system disk > and without that logical that tells mail de deliver locally for cluster > nodes. MAIL can be told to use TCP/IP, or one can set it up with the logical you refer to. > And there are instances of SYSMAN using DECNET. SYSMAN can use DECnet, but doesn't have to within a cluster. Lots of things can use DECnet in or outside of a cluster, but VMScluster itself never required it. I knew sites that clustered just fine without DECnet back when it was not supported that way. PHONE can be replaced by TCP/IP talk. And the current public roadmap shows plans to VMScluster over an IP network. Now that is a change. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.258 ************************