INFO-VAX Sun, 27 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 289 Contents: Re: Active Batch from Advanced Systems Concepts Re: Active Batch from Advanced Systems Concepts Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? DSSI allocation class puzzle Re: DSSI allocation class puzzle Re: Kits available Re: Kits available Re: Kits available Re: Kits available Re: Kits available Re: Kits available Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out RE: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Terminating remote (Reflections) telnet sessions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 00:22:14 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Active Batch from Advanced Systems Concepts Message-ID: <4658b317$0$21926$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> wrote in message news:00A6829F.8614E00E@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In article <46575c9e$0$21925$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" > writes: >> >> >>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> In article <46560936$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. >>> Dweeb" writes: >>>> >>>> >>>> Folks, >>>> >>>> We are evaluation a product called Active Batch >>>> http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/mop/mop_partner_product_detail_IDX/1,1331,5496,00.html >>>> for use in our Win2003AS environment. It all looks very familiar, >>>> like a graphical front end to the VMS queue manager, with concepts I >>>> know. >>>> >>>> Are there any users of the product here who would like to offer me >>>> the benefit of their experience with the product and equally >>>> importantly, their experiences when dealing with the company for >>>> support etc. >>>> >>>> Dr. Dweeb >>> >>> I wouldn't deal with the Active Batch people even if they gave me free >>> Active blow-jobs every hour on the hour with double-suck on holidays >>> and >>> weekends! >> >> >>If you would care to elaborate on that offline, I would be interested to >>know why. > > You know where to find me (see below). > > -- I tried that but it bounced. Dweeb > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 23:44:28 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Active Batch from Advanced Systems Concepts Message-ID: <00A68356.BC175337@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <4658b317$0$21926$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" writes: > > > > wrote in message >news:00A6829F.8614E00E@SendSpamHere.ORG... >> In article <46575c9e$0$21925$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" >> writes: >>> >>> >>>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>>> In article <46560936$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. >>>> Dweeb" writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Folks, >>>>> >>>>> We are evaluation a product called Active Batch >>>>> http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/mop/mop_partner_product_detail_IDX/1,1331,5496,00.html >>>>> for use in our Win2003AS environment. It all looks very familiar, >>>>> like a graphical front end to the VMS queue manager, with concepts I >>>>> know. >>>>> >>>>> Are there any users of the product here who would like to offer me >>>>> the benefit of their experience with the product and equally >>>>> importantly, their experiences when dealing with the company for >>>>> support etc. >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Dweeb >>>> >>>> I wouldn't deal with the Active Batch people even if they gave me free >>>> Active blow-jobs every hour on the hour with double-suck on holidays >>>> and >>>> weekends! >>> >>> >>>If you would care to elaborate on that offline, I would be interested to >>>know why. >> >> You know where to find me (see below). >> >> -- > >I tried that but it bounced. > >Dweeb I don't see anything in the logs that looks like dweeb.net. Can you tell me the time in the header of the bounceback message? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 14:16:19 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: none William Pechter wrote: > Having source code to the OS allows you to fix your own problmes. > Counting on a vendor to do what they should do is leaving your fate in > others hands. If you are in business to make chocolate cookies, and you use VMS to run your bakery/factory, are you also in business to fix an operating system? Or is open source a necessary EVIL for your business in order to attract talented geeks who need the lure of being able to play with the OS otherwise they would be totally bored if they worked only on the accounting and production systems ? In the end, your bakery needs a reliable tool (OS + hardware) on which to run the applications which are part of your core business. You're not "JF's Chocolate Cookies and Linux kernel patching Corp", you are "JF's Chocolate Cookies Corp." If you must have a team to patch the OS yourself, this is not the ideal solution. The ideal solution is to have a reliable OS and a reliable vendor with great support which means that you can focus on your core business, trusting that your vendor has good quality assurance BEFORE they ship the product and when there are glitches, they will be there to fix it for you quickly. I'd say VMS is pretty much the answer to the above. (or at least WAS before all the cutback and outsourcing) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 15:55:54 -0500 From: pechter@i4get.(none) (William Pechter) Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: In article , Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: William Pechter [mailto:pechter@i4get.tay.hp.com (none)] >> Sent: May 26, 2007 7:52 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? >> > >[snip...] > >> Having source code to the OS allows you to fix your own problmes. >> Counting on a vendor to do what they should do is leaving your fate in >> others hands. I've taken software issues to DEC, Sun, IBM etc. >> Sometimes the response is excellent... sometimes the response is >> dependant on the financial state and staff load at the company. >> >> At least Open Source (and Solaris is getting there) gives you the >> option >> to do it yourself. >> >> > >> >Regards >> >Andrew Harrison >> > >> >> >> Bill >> -- >> -- > >Yep, of course that assumes that you know and understand advanced kernel >resource scheduling, SMP synchronization techniques, cluster >co-ordination logic, IO driver debugging, thread synchronization in SMP, >clustered environments etc etc. > >And yes, you can throw your problem out on some list server or newsgroup >or web forum and hope that someone who really does understand these >issues has the time and energy to not only understand the issue, but >also develop a patch for the problem. > >And of course, once you customize your environment, then you have to >ensure that all future security patches, OS upgrades etc do not break >because of the Custom code you installed. > >Open source was the hot topic for awhile, and will certainly have a >place in some areas. > >However, a trend I see emerging right now is that many med-large Cust's >do not want their IT staff playing in the OS weeds. They would much >rather their senior IT folks engaging with the Business Units to better >understand their issues and working with them to understand how IT can >add value to their bottom lines. > >Regards > > >Kerry Main >Senior Consultant >HP Services Canada >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax: 613-591-4477 >kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom >(remove the DOT's and AT) > I see the opposite. I see so many folks struggling with purchased software that doesn't match the business processes. I see the difficulty in trying to change the business process to match what the software allows and supports. I see a huge amount of home grown stuff being supplanted as they move off legacy boxes with less customized stuff that's "supposedly easier to run and maintain." I'm not sure the pendulum will swing back the other way. Bill Pechter Systems Support Specialist -- -- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome) pechter-at-gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:13:04 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: none William Pechter wrote: > I see the opposite. I see so many folks struggling with purchased > software that doesn't match the business processes. > > I see the difficulty in trying to change the business process to match what > the software allows and supports. Hm, are we still talking about the OS level here ? Regarding the issues we are talking about here, there is a significant difference between the OS level and applications. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 16:17:26 -0500 From: pechter@i4get.(none) (William Pechter) Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: In article , Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >none William Pechter wrote: > >> I see the opposite. I see so many folks struggling with purchased >> software that doesn't match the business processes. >> >> I see the difficulty in trying to change the business process to match what >> the software allows and supports. > >Hm, are we still talking about the OS level here ? > >Regarding the issues we are talking about here, there is a >significant difference between the OS level and applications. > >Jan-Erik. Depends... sometimes you have to work around problems in the OS to get the app to work (source code here helps). Sometimes you have to work around the app's deficiencies... with the OS... Using heartbeat and writing failover routines with hot-standby or load balancing... Nothing beats source code. Bill -- -- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome) pechter-at-gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 22:13:39 GMT From: ChrisQuayle Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: none William Pechter wrote: > > Depends... sometimes you have to work around problems in the OS to get > the app to work (source code here helps). Sometimes you have to work > around the app's deficiencies... with the OS... > > Using heartbeat and writing failover routines with hot-standby or > load balancing... Nothing beats source code. > > Bill > Sorry, disagree. With a properly sorted os, the application programmer should be able to treat it as a black box that provides services to applications and that's it. The library interface and it's documentation *is* the os as far as the apps are concerned. Though good understanding of the os internals may be essential in some cases, the need for os source would suggest flaky os design or poor or incomplete documentation... Chris -- ---------------------- Greenfield Designs Ltd Electronic and Embedded System Design Oxford, England (44) 1865 750 681 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 20:11:39 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: none William Pechter wrote: > I see the opposite. I see so many folks struggling with purchased > software that doesn't match the business processes. The point is to get reliable OS so you can spend your time developping/customising your applications that define your business. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 20:36:29 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <4658D28D.5000105@comcast.net> none William Pechter wrote: > In article , > Main, Kerry wrote: > >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: William Pechter [mailto:pechter@i4get.tay.hp.com (none)] >>>Sent: May 26, 2007 7:52 AM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>>Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? >>> >> >>[snip...] >> >> >>>Having source code to the OS allows you to fix your own problmes. >>>Counting on a vendor to do what they should do is leaving your fate in >>>others hands. I've taken software issues to DEC, Sun, IBM etc. >>>Sometimes the response is excellent... sometimes the response is >>>dependant on the financial state and staff load at the company. >>> >>>At least Open Source (and Solaris is getting there) gives you the >>>option >>>to do it yourself. >>> >>> >>>>Regards >>>>Andrew Harrison >>>> >>> >>> >>>Bill >>>-- >>>-- >> >>Yep, of course that assumes that you know and understand advanced kernel >>resource scheduling, SMP synchronization techniques, cluster >>co-ordination logic, IO driver debugging, thread synchronization in SMP, >>clustered environments etc etc. >> >>And yes, you can throw your problem out on some list server or newsgroup >>or web forum and hope that someone who really does understand these >>issues has the time and energy to not only understand the issue, but >>also develop a patch for the problem. >> >>And of course, once you customize your environment, then you have to >>ensure that all future security patches, OS upgrades etc do not break >>because of the Custom code you installed. >> >>Open source was the hot topic for awhile, and will certainly have a >>place in some areas. >> >>However, a trend I see emerging right now is that many med-large Cust's >>do not want their IT staff playing in the OS weeds. They would much >>rather their senior IT folks engaging with the Business Units to better >>understand their issues and working with them to understand how IT can >>add value to their bottom lines. >> >>Regards >> >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior Consultant >>HP Services Canada >>Voice: 613-592-4660 >>Fax: 613-591-4477 >>kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom >>(remove the DOT's and AT) >> > > > I see the opposite. I see so many folks struggling with purchased > software that doesn't match the business processes. > > I see the difficulty in trying to change the business process to match what > the software allows and supports. It's better to purchase software that does the right thing in the first place. It's not always possible. Sometimes it's easier to "roll your own". And sometimes it's better for business processes to meet the software half-way. Some people's "business processes" have a strong flavor of "quill pens and ledger books"! ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 2007 20:21:39 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: In article <4658D28D.5000105@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > And sometimes it's better for business processes to meet the software > half-way. > Some people's "business processes" have a strong flavor of "quill pens > and ledger books"! Sometime between 1990 and 1995 a Philadelphia-based insurance company arranged to purchase a smaller insurance company. Top management at the acquiring company were impressed by the financial results of the smaller company, and did not do a thorough investigation of what it would take to merge IT operations. When the IT folks from the acquiring company showed up at the acquired company and asked to see the database operations, they were shown to drawers full of ledger cards. The company being acquired did not make use of computers. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:45:21 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <4658e2a3$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: >> Mass producing cars using an assembly line also brought the prices >> of cars downs. > > Yeah, but how long would Toyota and Ford be in business if they gave > away cars for free and only sold $1000/year support licenses? > > :-) If the cars got build by enthusiasts which did it for fun, then they would probably be in good shape. (we ignore the fact that cars require materials per copy, because software does not) > And as has been noted here in the past - if an OS platform has 5-20 > security patches released each and every month, given the huge > QA/testing for App certifications required, can a company actually > afford that platform? Apparently yes. > Since most companies can not keep up with this huge volume of > security patching, they tend to release patches with no testing or > simply let the patches pile up thinking their firewall is good so > they can get away with it. > > Unfortunately, as most security analysts will tell you, approx 50-60% > of all security incidents are internal related. How many of those use holes that should have been patched ?? Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:52:21 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <4658e447$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: > And yes, you can throw your problem out on some list server or newsgroup > or web forum and hope that someone who really does understand these > issues has the time and energy to not only understand the issue, but > also develop a patch for the problem. That seems as a very good theory. Unfortunately practice shows that the popular open sources products get bugs fixed much quicker than the big commercial software. > And of course, once you customize your environment, then you have to > ensure that all future security patches, OS upgrades etc do not break > because of the Custom code you installed. It would probably be in the next release. GPL and LGPL would mandate the fix being available to all. > Open source was the hot topic for awhile, and will certainly have a > place in some areas. > > However, a trend I see emerging right now is that many med-large Cust's > do not want their IT staff playing in the OS weeds. They would much > rather their senior IT folks engaging with the Business Units to better > understand their issues and working with them to understand how IT can > add value to their bottom lines. I think you are seeing a fata morgana. As far as I can see then Linux is still full speed ahead. Arne ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 2007 21:22:26 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: In article <4658e2a3$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: > Main, Kerry wrote: >> Unfortunately, as most security analysts will tell you, approx 50-60% >> of all security incidents are internal related. > > How many of those use holes that should have been patched ?? Compared to the number that use holes that should have been avoided in the first place through better design and testing ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 22:54:11 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <4658f2c3$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article <4658e2a3$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >> Main, Kerry wrote: >>> Unfortunately, as most security analysts will tell you, approx 50-60% >>> of all security incidents are internal related. >> How many of those use holes that should have been patched ?? > > Compared to the number that use holes that should have been avoided in > the first place through better design and testing ? No. Compared to just using the access & privs they have. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:27:55 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: DSSI allocation class puzzle Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have two VAXen (4000-400 and 4000-500) that I would like to cluster together by using DSSI bus 1 on each system. Both have 3 DSSI disks, connected to their respective bus 0. My main concern is about the best allocation class setting for both systems and disks. I do have read the relevant manuals but my doubts are still here. Actually I did set the disks connected to the first system to have allocation class 1, the others to have allocation class 2. I would reserve bus 0 on both VAXen for internal disks and use bus 1 for cluster communications, and set node allocation class accordingly on each system (i.e. each system would get the same allocation class as the disks into its cabinet). My idea is that cluster communications would have better perfomance if occurring on a bus (bus 1) with no "local" disk data transfers (confined to bus 0 on each system), is this right? Anyway, it is better to have equal disk names and different allocation classes or different disk names and equal allocation classes (e.g. either $1$DIA0 and $2$DIA0 or $1$DIA0 and $1$DIA3)? Sometime in the future (when I will find another DSSI cable) I will add to the cluster a DSSI tower with three more disks, connected to bus 1, shared between both systems. Which will be the best configuration and allocation class for those new disks? Allocation class 3? And what about MSCP serving these disks to possible ethernet satellites? To summarize, this is my actual project (use a fixed pitch font): +---------+ +---------+ +---------+ | $1$DIA0 |--| $1$DIA1 |--| $1$DIA2 |--+ +---------+ +---------+ +---------+ | | +---------------+ | bus1 | VAX #1 | bus0 | +--------| |------------+ | | ALLOCLASS = 1 | | +---------------+ | +---------+ | $?$DIA? | +---------+ | +---------+ | $?$DIA? | +---------+ | +---------+ | $?$DIA? | +---------+ | | +---------------+ | bus1 | VAX #2 | bus0 +--------| |------------+ | ALLOCLASS = 2 | | +---------------+ | | +---------+ +---------+ +---------+ | | $2$DIA0 |--| $2$DIA1 |--| $2$DIA2 |--+ +---------+ +---------+ +---------+ Any suggestion will be much appreciated! Thank you, G. P.S.: I'm not english native, sorry for any mistake. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 20:44:11 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DSSI allocation class puzzle Message-ID: <87d42$4658d47a$cef8887a$12634@TEKSAVVY.COM> > I have two VAXen (4000-400 and 4000-500) that I would like to cluster > together by using DSSI bus 1 on each system. Both have 3 DSSI disks, > connected to their respective bus 0. Main goal of allocation class, especially in a DSSI cluster is to ensure that you don't have 2 devices with same name (such as DIA0) with the same allocation class. Since one DSSI bus can have devices DIA0 to DIA5 (with DIA6 and DIA7 used by the controllers of VAXes), you might consider giving each bus its own allocation class. This way you'd have bus 0 with say $3$dia0 to $3$dia5, and bus 1 with $4$dia0 to $4$dia5 The allocation class of a DSSI bus does not have to match that of a node. so you could have node 1 with allocationcalss of 10, node 2 with allocation class of 11, first DSSI bus with allocation class 12 and second DSSI bus having 13. Not sure if this is the recommended config, but it works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 14:33:32 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Kits available Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > Have a number of VMS kits VAX, Alpha I64 eval, Tru64, SPL's Doc's for > all going back to 1999, If you want something send me mail and I will > see if I have it, these are otherwise heading for the recycle bin. If nobody else wants them, I would volunteer to give them a home. This stuff is worth preserving. ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 2007 12:22:16 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Kits available Message-ID: <1180207336.291525.305700@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On May 26, 1:10 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > Have a number of VMS kits VAX, Alpha I64 eval, Tru64, SPL's Doc's for > all going back to 1999, If you want something send me mail and I will > see if I have it, these are otherwise heading for the recycle bin. Noooooooo!!!!!!!! I'll take anything you have. How far from Cincinnati? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 17:50:53 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Kits available Message-ID: On Sat, 26 May 2007 12:22:16 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: > On May 26, 1:10 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: >> Have a number of VMS kits VAX, Alpha I64 eval, Tru64, SPL's Doc's for >> all going back to 1999, If you want something send me mail and I will >> see if I have it, these are otherwise heading for the recycle bin. > > Noooooooo!!!!!!!! > > > I'll take anything you have. How far from Cincinnati? > 93953 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 17:52:00 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Kits available Message-ID: On Sat, 26 May 2007 10:10:10 -0700, Tom Linden wrote: > > Have a number of VMS kits VAX, Alpha I64 eval, Tru64, SPL's Doc's for > all going back to 1999, If you want something send me mail and I will > see if I have it, these are otherwise heading for the recycle bin. OK, I will post an inventory next week. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 22:31:33 -0400 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: Kits available Message-ID: <4658B545.11682.66AD08@squayle.insight.rr.com> On 26 May 2007 at 10:10, Tom Linden wrote: > Have a number of VMS kits VAX, Alpha I64 eval, Tru64, SPL's Doc's for > all going back to 1999, I'll be glad to take the VAX and Alpha VMS and layered products to round out my collection -- especially the Alpha ones. The Tru64 and docs have no interest to me at present. --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 2007 22:09:57 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Kits available Message-ID: <1180242597.912012.84340@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On May 26, 8:50 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Sat, 26 May 2007 12:22:16 -0700, johnhreinha...@yahoo.com > > wrote: > > On May 26, 1:10 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > >> Have a number of VMS kits VAX, Alpha I64 eval, Tru64, SPL's Doc's for > >> all going back to 1999, If you want something send me mail and I will > >> see if I have it, these are otherwise heading for the recycle bin. > > > Noooooooo!!!!!!!! > > > I'll take anything you have. How far from Cincinnati? > > 93953 Okay, so I guess I won't be zipping by to pick it all up. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 22:36:13 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: In article <41300$46587701$cef8887a$553@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > Decisions to move away from VMS are not based on merit. There are > > extremely profitable stock exchanges running VMS. If OMX is bought and > > drops VMS, then not because VMS can't compete. > > Mr Helbig, from your vantage point, have you heard ANYTHING about the > future of the OMX software branch, and in particular its commitment to VMS ? Just what I pick up by chance. My impression was that OMX would stay with VMS as long as it makes them money (which it does), but if OMX is bought then all bets are off. > (For all we know, NASDAQ might convert to VMS :-) > > I hope Sue will go and meet the NASDAQ people and work her charm and get > them to not only save the OMX software branch, but deploy their VMS > software even more widely and adopt it as the NASDAQ core system, > especially if HP is close to announcing the port of VMS to industry > standard servers. Essentially, one can only cut costs in such a merger (and cost-cutting is the main reason for a merger) by cutting salary costs. The main way to do that is to move stuff to a common platform (which, of course, might increase costs in the short run). I doubt the buyer would be willing to give up his own software in favour of that of the buyee. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 19:56:53 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply > [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] > Sent: May 26, 2007 6:36 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out >=20 [snip ..] >=20 > Essentially, one can only cut costs in such a merger (and cost-cutting > is the main reason for a merger) by cutting salary costs. The main > way > to do that is to move stuff to a common platform (which, of course, > might increase costs in the short run). I doubt the buyer would be > willing to give up his own software in favour of that of the buyee. As you said - it depends on the applications and the strategic advantages it has. Typically, the sole reason for buying a software company is the strategic software that it has.=20 Do you really think those making the merger decisions care what platform the application is running on? Do you think they want to spend 2-4 years re-writing and/or porting it just so they can say it runs on X platform? As someone said earlier - its all about the $'s and market share and competitiveness. Period. And speaking from experience, during a merger, there is certainly no guarantee that the old stuff will be maintained over the new stuff. When HP took over Compaq, there were some Compaq systems and products maintained, while equivalent HP classic systems and products were retired. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:36:24 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: <4658e089$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: >> Essentially, one can only cut costs in such a merger (and cost-cutting >> is the main reason for a merger) by cutting salary costs. The main >> way >> to do that is to move stuff to a common platform (which, of course, >> might increase costs in the short run). I doubt the buyer would be >> willing to give up his own software in favour of that of the buyee. > > As you said - it depends on the applications and the strategic > advantages it has. Typically, the sole reason for buying a software > company is the strategic software that it has. OMX is not a software company. > Do you really think those making the merger decisions care what platform > the application is running on? Do you think they want to spend 2-4 years > re-writing and/or porting it just so they can say it runs on X platform? > > As someone said earlier - its all about the $'s and market share and > competitiveness. Period. I would think the CIO would have a hard time justifying maintaining two systems doing basically the same thing. And they care about the platform - both what it cost in operational and development expertise and whether it has a long term future. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:39:09 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: <4658e12d$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > Essentially, one can only cut costs in such a merger (and cost-cutting > is the main reason for a merger) by cutting salary costs. The main way > to do that is to move stuff to a common platform (which, of course, > might increase costs in the short run). I doubt the buyer would be > willing to give up his own software in favour of that of the buyee. They could decide to do so if there were very good reasons to do so. But considering the situation then it is not likely. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 22:51:00 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: <413e0$4658f236$cef8887a$14755@TEKSAVVY.COM> Main, Kerry wrote: > As you said - it depends on the applications and the strategic > advantages it has. Typically, the sole reason for buying a software > company is the strategic software that it has. The sole reason Compaq bought Digital wasn't for its software or hardware, it was for its sales offices and support infrastructure. It didn't care about the rest. NASDAQ and NYSE saw european markets tbecoming more important than the USA and felt the only way to survive was to buy into the european markets. NASDAQ tried the big jewel (London) and failed miserably. NYSE went for the less important Euronext and unfortunatly got it. So NASDAQ is desperate to get its hands on anything european. It can't afford the German one, so it is going for the nordic ones. Not sure NASDAQ had any goals of acquiring a software company. It just wanst a foot in the european door of stock exchanges. The chairman of OMX would have told the chairman of NASDAQ about OMX's succesful software and hosting business. (OMX operates some data centres that run many stock exchanges). Whether the chairman of NASDAQ cares or not is a different story. NASDAQ just wants to be able to claim some european victory. Any victory. If they fail with OMX, they'll try some smaller exchange until they manage to get one, even if its just the Belgian Chocolate Exchange. New York bankers work with their gonads, not their brains. Being better than the guy next door is extremely important to them. They think they know everything, but they actually don't know that much, except what lunch buddies (other new york bankers) tell them. New York senior bankers live in their own world of corporate dining room deals with their buddies. They are detached from actual logic, unless some grunt manages to send a short enough document to them outlining how decision X can make them more money (as long as decision X doesn't wreck relationship with their customers). Note that Microsoft is a customer of NASDAQ (and vice versa). One reason IBM has done well with banks is that it has always known about the care and feeding of new york bankers. It is "inside" that loop and holds a lot of influence. Digital wasn't anywhere near. Tandem has a small toe in the door because of its technologically unique product. I don't know if HP has any idea about banks. It is a Kalifornia company that went from being scientific to being Hollywodian (with Carly). Logically, if NASDAQ did not develop its own software, it would make sense for it to move to the OM software since payments for licences and support would stay within the family instead of going to some 3rd party. New York bankers often disregard logic and go with what other new york bankers have decided. If the software NASDAQ uses is owned by a company that is trading on the NASDAQ exchange, then it may prefer that over using its own (OMX) sofwtare because helping struggling NASDAQ companies is important to the stock exchange. On the other hand, NASDAQ may decide to spin off the OM software arm, returning money to NASDAQ shareholders, And after a while, get the nordic exchanges to switch its own Tandem/Microsoft platform. (i.i. one it has sold the sofwtare company and gotten its money, it won't care if it dies). This is the reason that VMS management must get a crash course ****NOW****, and I mean THIS WEEKEND, on how to wine and dine new york bankers and start to talk to NASDAQ chairman about the great future of VMS and tell him not to listen to folks like Stallard and Livermore who have an agenda to try to save their faltering HPUX. If I were Ann McQuaid, I would be calling on Lou Gerstner this weekend and hire him as a consultant to help secure VMS's position with the now enlarged NASDAQ family. We all know that Hurd, Livermore and Stallard aren't going to lift a finger to try to save VMS. For all we know, they may have already told the NASDAQ chairman that VMS was dead the day IA64's long planned retirement is made public. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 23:00:14 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: <4658f430$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > NASDAQ and NYSE saw european markets tbecoming more important than the > USA and felt the only way to survive was to buy into the european > markets. I think the trend is consolidation. Either the US stock exchanges buy the european ones or the other way around. I don't think you can conclude much about what market is most important. > New York bankers work with their gonads, not their brains. Being better > than the guy next door is extremely important to them. They think they > know everything, but they actually don't know that much, except what > lunch buddies (other new york bankers) tell them. > > New York senior bankers live in their own world of corporate dining room > deals with their buddies. They are detached from actual logic, unless > some grunt manages to send a short enough document to them outlining how > decision X can make them more money (as long as decision X doesn't wreck > relationship with their customers). What is their average salary ? Arne ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 2007 22:23:21 -0700 From: BaxterD@tessco.com Subject: Terminating remote (Reflections) telnet sessions. Message-ID: <1180243401.912025.99760@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> If this is a repeat of an old question then I apologise in advance. I appear to have a situation occurring whereby employees who connect to our system from an outside location, using telnet, through Reflections, can be disconnected, without the VMS process being removed. I am not clear at this point how the disconnection is being caused, maybe it is a FireWall "idle time-out" of some kind, or maybe they are just shutting down their PC/Laptops without logging off. Anyway, the question is: Is there someway that I can ensure that these sessions are properly shutdown? (either at the VMS level, or within Reflections). Dave ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.289 ************************