INFO-VAX Tue, 18 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 692 Contents: Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) I think this new Pay Per system is crazy Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! recycling old VAX, was: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: recycling old VAX, was: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Talking CV, Video resume, Photos, web pages, data - How much does it take taketa Re: Timezone rule change won't stick! Re: Timezone rule change won't stick! Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:20:28 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Message-ID: <13meuvgh2h7s162@corp.supernews.com> David Jones wrote: > In message <13mdpkqcfd692f6@corp.supernews.com> > Mark Daniel > >>Grant Croker wrote: >> >>>Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save >>>sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if > > >>What can be the magic ingredient that they are loath to or cannot share >>I wonder? > > > The revision control system they use, perhaps? So, something other than the CMS/MMS/ et al used by the rest of the developer community. >>Dave Jones of OSU has successfully built (earlier?) versions. Perhaps >>he used a particular approach he can comment on. > > > Last June I did a fresh port of PHP 4.4.7 for use with the OSU server. The > main problem is that the UNIX kits build by using shell scripts to generate key > header files that select tons and tons of conditional source lines based on the > OS variant, application environment, and build options you selected. Once > you get a best guess for a couple hundred #defines in the header files, you > then have to compiler qualifiers to make the compiles resolve the #include > paths correctly and use the right compiler mode options. Finally, you have > to craft linker options files with associated object libraries and/or shareable > images to be able to link your final executables. That's pretty much as I'd imagined it might be. Too bad. This is the Achilles heel in much might-have-happened porting effort. > I packaged up the result as a zip file for distribution, available at > > http://www.ecr6.ohio-state.edu/www/preview/PHP_4_4_7-OVMS-1.ZIP > > Note that this kit contains files that supplement/supplant the standard 4.4.7 > source kit tree from php.net (which they'll probably stop distributing at the > end of this year). The only executable it builds is a custom PHP interpreter > for the OSU script environment (interpreter internally provides the CGI > environment seen by the scrpits). I don't think it would work with the CSWS > mod_osu module since it requires a patch to work with the OSU server. Thanks for the response. Cheers. > > David L. Jones | Phone: (614) 271-6718 > Ohio State University | Internet: > 140 W. 19th St. | jonesd@ecr6.ohio-state.edu > Columbus, OH 43210 | vman+@osu.edu > > Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long. -- History is full of people who out of fear, or ignorance, or lust for power have destroyed knowledge of immeasurable value which truly belongs to us all. We must not let it happen again. [Carl Sagan; Cosmos] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:33:32 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Subject: Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Message-ID: <7ea7c2ce-9f2b-4492-a30d-a10315e88f78@18g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Dec 17, 5:34 pm, Grant Croker wrote: > Hi, > > I have over the last year or so tried to build the PHP source provided > by HP[1] on OpenVMS. The driver for this is a client request to have > the PHP Ingres extension[2] built on the same platform. Unfortunately > I have encountered problems building PHP using the supplied source. > Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save > sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if > any brave soul had managed to build PHP on their VMS system? > > regards > > grant > > [1]http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html > [2]http://pecl.php.net/ingres Unfortunately, the situation is a little worse than that. Some of the 'supported' and compiled code released by HP doesn't work, such as SSL (I have a patch for this now). I agree with Mark, in that it would be nice to have someone take this role. The reality is that it's very unlikely that someone would do this of their own free will. I for one, would be happy to pay a fixed fee each year for someone to be employed to keep VMS PHP up to date. If enough like-minded people got on board, it might just be enough to employ someone. Having said that, I think HP should really be supporting PHP to a much higher level. There's an awful lot of talk about PHP5 at the moment, including all of the new OOP and Classes revisions. I can only see PHP growing as a business language. Rob. By the way, these are my feelings and are not necessarily endorsed or condoned by my employers. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 12:46:44 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Message-ID: <5sptpkF19srg2U1@mid.individual.net> In article <7ea7c2ce-9f2b-4492-a30d-a10315e88f78@18g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Rob writes: > On Dec 17, 5:34 pm, Grant Croker wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have over the last year or so tried to build the PHP source provided >> by HP[1] on OpenVMS. The driver for this is a client request to have >> the PHP Ingres extension[2] built on the same platform. Unfortunately >> I have encountered problems building PHP using the supplied source. >> Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save >> sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if >> any brave soul had managed to build PHP on their VMS system? >> >> regards >> >> grant >> >> [1]http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html >> [2]http://pecl.php.net/ingres > > Unfortunately, the situation is a little worse than that. > > Some of the 'supported' and compiled code released by HP doesn't work, > such as SSL (I have a patch for this now). > > I agree with Mark, in that it would be nice to have someone take this > role. The reality is that it's very unlikely that someone would do > this of their own free will. > > I for one, would be happy to pay a fixed fee each year for someone to > be employed to keep VMS PHP up to date. If enough like-minded people > got on board, it might just be enough to employ someone. > > Having said that, I think HP should really be supporting PHP to a much > higher level. There's an awful lot of talk about PHP5 at the moment, > including all of the new OOP and Classes revisions. I can only see PHP > growing as a business language. Considering the security model (or lack thereof) of PHP one can only hope you are wrong. I have had our web server attacked via PHP in the past and I was just notified by the University's Network Security Guru that a concentrated attack of .edu's using PHP is currently underway and I should keep an eye on my web server. Perl was bad but PHP is much, much worse. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:09:03 -0800 (PST) From: Grant Croker Subject: Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Message-ID: <07ea6528-becc-485a-a9c3-8f95974dc3a9@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> On Dec 18, 7:04 am, JON...@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) wrote: > In message <13mdpkqcfd69...@corp.supernews.com> > Mark Daniel > > >Grant Croker wrote: > >> Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save > >> sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if > >What can be the magic ingredient that they are loath to or cannot share > >I wonder? > > The revision control system they use, perhaps? That is only part of the story. I have come across the following: - Scripts referring to the internal Compaq/HP RCS/SCCS system - Disk devices in the path of the configure scripts instead of concealed logicals - references to alternate libraries/header files of specific compiler build - compiler problems resolving header files in alternate directories > > >Dave Jones of OSU has successfully built (earlier?) versions. Perhaps > >he used a particular approach he can comment on. > > Last June I did a fresh port of PHP 4.4.7 for use with the OSU server. The > main problem is that the UNIX kits build by using shell scripts to generate key > header files that select tons and tons of conditional source lines based on the > OS variant, application environment, and build options you selected. Once > you get a best guess for a couple hundred #defines in the header files, you > then have to compiler qualifiers to make the compiles resolve the #include > paths correctly and use the right compiler mode options. Finally, you have > to craft linker options files with associated object libraries and/or shareable > images to be able to link your final executables. > > I packaged up the result as a zip file for distribution, available at > > http://www.ecr6.ohio-state.edu/www/preview/PHP_4_4_7-OVMS-1.ZIP Excellent, I am going to give this a go. If only to work out how the PHP extensions on VMS hook in to the engine itself. > > Note that this kit contains files that supplement/supplant the standard 4.4.7 > source kit tree from php.net (which they'll probably stop distributing at the > end of this year). The only executable it builds is a custom PHP interpreter > for the OSU script environment (interpreter internally provides the CGI > environment seen by the scrpits). I don't think it would work with the CSWS > mod_osu module since it requires a patch to work with the OSU server. From what I have read of the aaareadme.txt this looks a lot easier to setup by comparison. thanks grant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:45:04 +0100 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: JF Mezei schrieb: > I once completely stripped the IO box for the MVII's in Q5s. This is > very heavy high grade steel. Recycling didn't take it. So it was dumped > in normal rubbish even though this SHOULD have been recycled. This may have changed these days. Metal is becoming a rare resource. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:49:22 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <36773$4767979f$cef8887a$16410@TEKSAVVY.COM> Michael Kraemer wrote: > JF Mezei schrieb: > This may have changed these days. > Metal is becoming a rare resource. Residential recycling programmes are setup for "residential" recyclables. And old vaxes with that think high quality steel isn't something you get from your grocery store and the recyling trucks won't necessarily take it because they are not geared towards it at the other end. Consider the number residential homes that will be ditching VAX cabinets. Not that many. And consider that the older vax hardware may have capacitors with not so healthy chemicals in them that can't be put in the rubbish and must be sent to the "dangerous rubbish" collections once or twice a year. Some stores here have begun to take old paint cans back and there is a paint recycling firm that takes them back and actually recycles the paint inside (as well as the can). And there are stores like Staples etc that may have PC recyling programmes, usually tied to a manyufacturer (aka: they'll take HP *PC* back, but not a DEC vax. Besides, sending a Microvax II in large cabinet to a office depot may be quite costly. Worldwide, I have to assume that there would be fewer than 100 VAXMANs, so there really isn't any needto setup official distribution channels where those individual will be able to send their old vaxen for recycling. (newer alphas look more like PCs and PC servers, so they are easier to deposit at Office Depot etc). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:23:59 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article <2962f$47676326$cef8887a$4316@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> I need to borrow or buy a fish-eye lens to get a new and better picture >> of the VAXcave... and the VAXgarage... and the VAXbasement and... well, >> I have been amassing much by saving these boxes from the landfills. > >A word of warning though: some countries have passed fairly strict >environmental regulations with regards to the disposal of computers. These systems, most likely, would have been disposed of through a recycling facility. My landfill comment was more of an allegorical than actual final result for these boxes. >Should this ever happen to where you live, you may be stuck with the >responsability of transporting all the stuff to some recycling centre or >paying for its transportation. My town has a very good recycling center. I can take things there at any time and its only about 3 miles drive. The town also provides, 3 times a year, a bulk pickup from curbside. I don't do it as proNJ already looks enough like a dump that I won't clutter my front curb with junk to augment the ambience of "the garbage state". >Compact fluorescent bulbs are an equal problem since you can't throw >them in any rubbish bin (they contain mercury). And the current batch of >chinese made bulbs don't last very long. (I've had one catch on fire >BTW, managed to turn off power before it got out of hand). I have recently replaced almost all of the incandescent lighting with the energy saver compact flourescent lights. The MTBF is rather high on the units I've purchased so I won't be worrying about disposal for several (5) years. >I once completely stripped the IO box for the MVII's in Q5s. This is >very heavy high grade steel. Recycling didn't take it. So it was dumped >in normal rubbish even though this SHOULD have been recycled. Hmm. Metal (steel and iron especially) are easily recycled. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:51:03 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <81972$4767b423$cef8887a$19802@TEKSAVVY.COM> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > I have recently replaced almost all of the incandescent lighting with the > energy saver compact flourescent lights. The MTBF is rather high on the > units I've purchased so I won't be worrying about disposal for several (5) > years. I have had some european bulbs that have been in place for probably 7-8 years now. But I have had chinese bulbs not last a full year, including one that recently caught fire. A "Globe" Spiral 25w n particular. The newer/cheaper bulbs also consume more power than the higher quality ones. > Hmm. Metal (steel and iron especially) are easily recycled. Yes, of course, especially the high quality steel that DEC had been using for its cabinets. But the question is finding a place to send that steel for recyling because curbside pickup doesn't do it, they do aluminium, tin, plastics and papers, not steel. It has to do on how the recyling sorting centres are setup. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:11:31 +0100 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: JF Mezei schrieb: > Residential recycling programmes are setup for "residential" > recyclables. And old vaxes with that think high quality steel isn't > something you get from your grocery store and the recyling trucks won't > necessarily take it because they are not geared towards it at the other end. Thats why I collect mostly workstations of roughly pizzabox format (family pizza sometimes) rather than servers. Whenever I'm done with that hobby they may go as some kind of ancient PeeCee. > Consider the number residential homes that will be ditching VAX > cabinets. Not that many. And consider that the older vax hardware may > have capacitors with not so healthy chemicals in them that can't be put > in the rubbish and must be sent to the "dangerous rubbish" collections > once or twice a year. I was thinking more general. The increasing value of the metals and other stuff might outweigh the costs to dispose the dangereous chemicals. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:31:36 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article <81972$4767b423$cef8887a$19802@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei wrote: > Yes, of course, especially the high quality steel that DEC had been > using for its cabinets. But the question is finding a place to send that > steel for recyling because curbside pickup doesn't do it, they do > aluminium, tin, plastics and papers, not steel. It has to do on how the > recyling sorting centres are setup. Surely they will take quality steel at car scrap yards? -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 07:36:10 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > And now a couple boxes with the "intel inside" warning labels too! > I got'a get me one o' them someday. When I'm in the mood for pain. IIRC one was a doorstop for a while, did you ever get it running? > I miss the one uVAX you took away. I loved fiddling about in 'ye olde > qbus'. > A variation of fiddling with UNIBUS for me, except that installing a board did not generally shake all the other boards loose. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 07:38:05 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article <2962f$47676326$cef8887a$4316@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > > A word of warning though: some countries have passed fairly strict > environmental regulations with regards to the disposal of computers. I live in a county with slightly higher taxes. They provide that recycling, as well as steel, appliances, tires, batteries, and all those other little nasties that require or at least should be recycled. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 07 12:40:29 EST From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <$5Ltmif5QSit@wvnvms> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <2962f$47676326$cef8887a$4316@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >> >> >>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> I need to borrow or buy a fish-eye lens to get a new and better picture >>> of the VAXcave... and the VAXgarage... and the VAXbasement and... well, >>> I have been amassing much by saving these boxes from the landfills. >> >>A word of warning though: some countries have passed fairly strict >>environmental regulations with regards to the disposal of computers. > > These systems, most likely, would have been disposed of through a recycling > facility. My landfill comment was more of an allegorical than actual final > result for these boxes. > > > >>Should this ever happen to where you live, you may be stuck with the >>responsability of transporting all the stuff to some recycling centre or >>paying for its transportation. > > My town has a very good recycling center. I can take things there at any > time and its only about 3 miles drive. The town also provides, 3 times a > year, a bulk pickup from curbside. I don't do it as proNJ already looks > enough like a dump that I won't clutter my front curb with junk to augment > the ambience of "the garbage state". > > > >>Compact fluorescent bulbs are an equal problem since you can't throw >>them in any rubbish bin (they contain mercury). And the current batch of >>chinese made bulbs don't last very long. (I've had one catch on fire >>BTW, managed to turn off power before it got out of hand). > > I have recently replaced almost all of the incandescent lighting with the > energy saver compact flourescent lights. The MTBF is rather high on the > units I've purchased so I won't be worrying about disposal for several (5) > years. > > >>I once completely stripped the IO box for the MVII's in Q5s. This is >>very heavy high grade steel. Recycling didn't take it. So it was dumped >>in normal rubbish even though this SHOULD have been recycled. > > Hmm. Metal (steel and iron especially) are easily recycled. Not as easy finding a place to take some types as one might think. When I upgraded my boiler three years ago, the plumbers told me that none of the commercial metal (or non-profit) recyclers in the area took cast iron, so they had to haul the hundreds of pounds of it in my old boiler to the dump. George Cook WVNET ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:00:48 -0800 (PST) From: rq5znszb Subject: I think this new Pay Per system is crazy Message-ID: <639e32ef-7d39-4426-92ab-19907b77e47b@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com> http://getpaidforeveryvistor.googlepages.com/home is the hottest new way for publishers to get paid off per play on there page... http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.vista.general/topics So every visitor you make money not per click. And now become an affiliate while there is still time.. Decide for yourself>>> http://getpaidforeveryvistor.googlepages.com/home ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:48:30 +0000 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <20071218094830.GA14183@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Mon, Dec 17, 2007 at 10:25:20PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > In article <5snsucF1a8askU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >> > >> If I have all the necessary hardware info, how hard is it write a device > >> driver for VMS? > > > > Since you said Qbus, italmost must be a VAX, so you'll be working in > > Macro-32. If you haven't done that for a while then practice with > > some ordinary little user mode applications first, you don't want > > to be wondering about the instruction set in the middle of driver > > writing. > > Well, that kills that. I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. > Files-11 is precisely what I was looking at so I think this is beyond > my abilities. Hmmm.... Wonder if I can write something for BSD that > will be able to read Files-11. Probably easier. Ryan Gibson, now a final year PhD with Electonic and Electical Engng at Bristol Uni wrote a linux kernel module supporting ODS-2 (or was is it Files-11) based on K. McCoy's book. Aparrently it wasn't too hard. Gibson, Ryan. Open VMS file system support for GNU/Linux / Ryan Gibson. 2003. Shelfmark Project U2003 GIB, Queens-Building You might be able to get his report via Inter-Library Loan (hard copy) or from him directly. He might be interested in sharing the code. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:57:37 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@gmail.com Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: On Dec 18, 9:48 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > On Mon, Dec 17, 2007 at 10:25:20PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > In article , > > koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > > In article <5snsucF1a8as...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > >> If I have all the necessary hardware info, how hard is it write a device > > >> driver for VMS? > > > > Since you said Qbus, italmost must be a VAX, so you'll be working in > > > Macro-32. If you haven't done that for a while then practice with > > > some ordinary little user mode applications first, you don't want > > > to be wondering about the instruction set in the middle of driver > > > writing. > > > Well, that kills that. I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. > > Files-11 is precisely what I was looking at so I think this is beyond > > my abilities. Hmmm.... Wonder if I can write something for BSD that > > will be able to read Files-11. Probably easier. > > Ryan Gibson, now a final year PhD with Electonic and Electical Engng at > Bristol Uni wrote a linux kernel module supporting ODS-2 (or was is > it Files-11) based on K. McCoy's book. Aparrently it wasn't too hard. > > Gibson, Ryan. Open VMS file system support for GNU/Linux / Ryan Gibson. > 2003. Shelfmark Project U2003 GIB, Queens-Building > > You might be able to get his report via Inter-Library Loan (hard copy) > or from him directly. He might be interested in sharing the code. > > -- > Anton Shterenlikht > Room 2.6, Queen's Building > Mech Eng Dept > Bristol University > University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK > Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 > Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 Basic Files11 support might not be too bad, especially if constrained to ODS1 and/or just a utility in the style of VMS EXCHANGE rather than a fully integrated file system component. ODS2 and full integration into a file system would be more of a challenge, especially as the file contents have a tendency to be useless in many cases unless the relevant bits of RMS are also implemented/emulated. Bill hasn't told us much about what he's actually trying to do. hth John Wallace ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 13:25:02 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <5sq01eF1ah5mnU1@mid.individual.net> In article , johnwallace4@gmail.com writes: > On Dec 18, 9:48 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 17, 2007 at 10:25:20PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> > In article , >> > koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> > > In article <5snsucF1a8as...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> > >> If I have all the necessary hardware info, how hard is it write a device >> > >> driver for VMS? >> >> > > Since you said Qbus, italmost must be a VAX, so you'll be working in >> > > Macro-32. If you haven't done that for a while then practice with >> > > some ordinary little user mode applications first, you don't want >> > > to be wondering about the instruction set in the middle of driver >> > > writing. >> >> > Well, that kills that. I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. >> > Files-11 is precisely what I was looking at so I think this is beyond >> > my abilities. Hmmm.... Wonder if I can write something for BSD that >> > will be able to read Files-11. Probably easier. >> >> Ryan Gibson, now a final year PhD with Electonic and Electical Engng at >> Bristol Uni wrote a linux kernel module supporting ODS-2 (or was is >> it Files-11) based on K. McCoy's book. Aparrently it wasn't too hard. >> >> Gibson, Ryan. Open VMS file system support for GNU/Linux / Ryan Gibson. >> 2003. Shelfmark Project U2003 GIB, Queens-Building >> >> You might be able to get his report via Inter-Library Loan (hard copy) >> or from him directly. He might be interested in sharing the code. >> >> -- >> Anton Shterenlikht >> Room 2.6, Queen's Building >> Mech Eng Dept >> Bristol University >> University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK >> Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 >> Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 > > Basic Files11 support might not be too bad, especially if constrained > to ODS1 and/or just a utility in the style of VMS EXCHANGE rather than > a fully integrated file system component. > > ODS2 and full integration into a file system would be more of a > challenge, especially as the file contents have a tendency to be > useless in many cases unless the relevant bits of RMS are also > implemented/emulated. > > Bill hasn't told us much about what he's actually trying to do. Gee, I thought it was rather obvious. :-) I am trying to come up with a way to read RX disks containing a Files-11 filesystem. While I have some ways of doing it now, I was looking for other options. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 07:42:34 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <+UhVDh3Tb13C@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <5sobagF1a797nU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Well, that kills that. I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. > Files-11 is precisely what I was looking at so I think this is beyond > my abilities. Hmmm.... Wonder if I can write something for BSD that > will be able to read Files-11. Probably easier. I think Carl Lydick's ODS-2 reader for MS-DOS is still lurking around. That might be a good place to start. And if you can get block access working, you can probably use one of the FAT utilities that run under VMS if you want to use it as non-Files-11 storage. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 07:45:12 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: In article , johnwallace4@gmail.com writes: > Basic Files11 support might not be too bad, especially if constrained > to ODS1 and/or just a utility in the style of VMS EXCHANGE rather than > a fully integrated file system component. ODS-1 support would mean getting the source listings in order to work the communication between the driver and the ODS-1 ACP. > ODS2 and full integration into a file system would be more of a > challenge, especially as the file contents have a tendency to be > useless in many cases unless the relevant bits of RMS are also > implemented/emulated. If you implement all the bits of interfacing to the ACP or XQP, you get RMS. RMS sits on top of that. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 07:48:40 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: In article <5sq01eF1ah5mnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Gee, I thought it was rather obvious. :-) I am trying to come up > with a way to read RX disks containing a Files-11 filesystem. While > I have some ways of doing it now, I was looking for other options. There are VAX-11/78x alive and well with working RX01 drives in thier consoles. Maybe you can get access to one if you just want to get the data off. (I'm fairly sure you can't get access to the 785 I know of.) But if this is really a hobbyist project you'ld just like to do then the price of the listing CD I think still rivals the price of a cheap Itanium. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 15:18:49 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <5sq6mpF1aecj0U1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5sq01eF1ah5mnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> Gee, I thought it was rather obvious. :-) I am trying to come up >> with a way to read RX disks containing a Files-11 filesystem. While >> I have some ways of doing it now, I was looking for other options. > > There are VAX-11/78x alive and well with working RX01 drives > in thier consoles. Maybe you can get access to one if you just want > to get the data off. (I'm fairly sure you can't get access to the > 785 I know of.) > > But if this is really a hobbyist project you'ld just like to do > then the price of the listing CD I think still rivals the price > of a cheap Itanium. Well, it's pretty much an academic exercise at this point, but could become more serious in the future. As things get rarer I am thinking I might like to start a small data recovery service to supliment my meager retirement (which is approaching must faster than I care to accept). I will likely stick to doing things on my PDP-11's. While I have a number of VAXen of various models I lack the experience with VMS to take on any project beyond the trivial that involves anything below the application level. I can write applications in a dozen different high level languages and even MACRO but I actually have more OS level experience in PRIMOS than I have VMS. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:36:03 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <4767E8E3.4000402@comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > >>In article <5sq01eF1ah5mnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >>>Gee, I thought it was rather obvious. :-) I am trying to come up >>>with a way to read RX disks containing a Files-11 filesystem. While >>>I have some ways of doing it now, I was looking for other options. >> >> There are VAX-11/78x alive and well with working RX01 drives >> in thier consoles. Maybe you can get access to one if you just want >> to get the data off. (I'm fairly sure you can't get access to the >> 785 I know of.) >> >> But if this is really a hobbyist project you'ld just like to do >> then the price of the listing CD I think still rivals the price >> of a cheap Itanium. > > > Well, it's pretty much an academic exercise at this point, but could > become more serious in the future. As things get rarer I am thinking > I might like to start a small data recovery service to supliment my > meager retirement (which is approaching must faster than I care to > accept). I will likely stick to doing things on my PDP-11's. While > I have a number of VAXen of various models I lack the experience with > VMS to take on any project beyond the trivial that involves anything > below the application level. I can write applications in a dozen > different high level languages and even MACRO but I actually have more > OS level experience in PRIMOS than I have VMS. :-) > > bill > > If you are really interested in recovering data from odd and/or obsolete media, there's a guy in NYC named Chris Muller who makes his living doing just that. He might be willing/able to employ some help. If this sounds interesting to you I believe I can dig out his address/phone. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 17:00:45 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <5sqclsF1ammamU1@mid.individual.net> In article <4767E8E3.4000402@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article , >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> >>>In article <5sq01eF1ah5mnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>>>Gee, I thought it was rather obvious. :-) I am trying to come up >>>>with a way to read RX disks containing a Files-11 filesystem. While >>>>I have some ways of doing it now, I was looking for other options. >>> >>> There are VAX-11/78x alive and well with working RX01 drives >>> in thier consoles. Maybe you can get access to one if you just want >>> to get the data off. (I'm fairly sure you can't get access to the >>> 785 I know of.) >>> >>> But if this is really a hobbyist project you'ld just like to do >>> then the price of the listing CD I think still rivals the price >>> of a cheap Itanium. >> >> >> Well, it's pretty much an academic exercise at this point, but could >> become more serious in the future. As things get rarer I am thinking >> I might like to start a small data recovery service to supliment my >> meager retirement (which is approaching must faster than I care to >> accept). I will likely stick to doing things on my PDP-11's. While >> I have a number of VAXen of various models I lack the experience with >> VMS to take on any project beyond the trivial that involves anything >> below the application level. I can write applications in a dozen >> different high level languages and even MACRO but I actually have more >> OS level experience in PRIMOS than I have VMS. :-) >> >> bill >> >> > > If you are really interested in recovering data from odd and/or obsolete > media, there's a guy in NYC named Chris Muller who makes his living > doing just that. He might be willing/able to employ some help. If this > sounds interesting to you I believe I can dig out his address/phone. Must not have been clear. Retirement is looming. I'm not looking for a job after I retire. I enjoy working with all this old iron and have quite a collection. (Hint: I personally own the only 9 track tape drive available to anyone with old tapes in the whole University community.) I am considering offering to do data recovery from old media, like 9 track, 8" disks, 5 1/4" disks, RL02 disk packs as a means to supliment my lifestyle while not working 40 hours a week. And I certainly will be no where in the vicinity of NYC when that time comes. (I only visit NYC grudgingly at this point and about 8 hours at a time is all I can stand as long as it is separated by several months between visits!) I may offer my services for other things like software conversions or maintenance of "legacy" programs when the pool of available COBOL, Fortran, Pascal, Ada, Modula and yes, even PL/I (Hi! Tom) programmers has all but dried up and the IT world has come to its senses (a little late) and realized the true value of procedural languages. :-) But, mostly, I plan to travel. Especially back in Europe. In the meantime, I have another 7 or 8 good years left in me and hope to soon put them to more practical (and profitable) use. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:25:35 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: In article <5sobagF1a797nU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > Well, that kills that. I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. > Files-11 is precisely what I was looking at so I think this is beyond > my abilities. Hmmm.... Wonder if I can write something for BSD that > will be able to read Files-11. Probably easier. How about this? "ODS2, MISCELLANEOUS, Portable ODS-2 file structure reader ODS2 V1.3 -- Read VMS ODS-2 disks on VMS, Windows, and UNIX Written by Paul Nankervis, and modified by Hunter Goatley" And from the readmes in it: "What can it do? Basically ODS2 provides cut down DIRECTORY, COPY and SEARCH commands for VMS volumes on non-VMS systems. These can be used to find out what is on a VMS volume, and copy files onto the local file sytem. What file types? Basically ODS2 can only deal with sequential files. I do not have information on how indexed file types are constructed, and relative files are of limited interest." It compiles and works on OSX. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:51:15 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: recycling old VAX, was: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article <36773$4767979f$cef8887a$16410@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > > >Michael Kraemer wrote: >> JF Mezei schrieb: >> This may have changed these days. >> Metal is becoming a rare resource. > >Residential recycling programmes are setup for "residential" >recyclables. And old vaxes with that think high quality steel isn't >something you get from your grocery store and the recyling trucks won't >necessarily take it because they are not geared towards it at the other end. It's a metal box! At my recycling center I have seen huge filing cabinets, metal bed frames, lawn mowers (from push mowers to lawn tractors) and many other bits of "office" equipment. A VAX's guts aren't that much different from old TV sets (specifically, those with the big glass envelope picture tubes) and I have seen PLENTY of them in the heaps at my recycling center. >Some stores here have begun to take old paint cans back and there is a >paint recycling firm that takes them back and actually recycles the >paint inside (as well as the can). And there are stores like Staples etc >that may have PC recyling programmes, usually tied to a manyufacturer >(aka: they'll take HP *PC* back, but not a DEC vax. Besides, sending a >Microvax II in large cabinet to a office depot may be quite costly. What they are doing in the "great white north" where you live JF is not necessarily a manifestation of how the rest of north america is handling the recycling issue. I painted my basement when I moved into my home 20 years ago and I was required then to take my paint cans to the recycling center for disposal. >Worldwide, I have to assume that there would be fewer than 100 VAXMANs, >so there really isn't any needto setup official distribution channels >where those individual will be able to send their old vaxen for recycling. ...but there are 1000s or more corporate facilities with far more equip- ment they are tossing every day. FWIW, my VAX stockpile is down to only VAX-3100s (M76/M80/M90) and VAX-4000s (VLC and 96). All of my rescued stock went to other homes -- not landfills! A VAX is a terrible thing to waste. I would be more concerned about the ignominious voluminous glut of mobile phones tossed out each and every day! I'd wager these dwarf the volume of microVAXen in the landfills hundredfold. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:28:56 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: recycling old VAX, was: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > It's a metal box! At my recycling center I have seen huge filing cabinets, > metal bed frames, lawn mowers (from push mowers to lawn tractors) and many > other bits of "office" equipment. This is quite different from residential pickup servces in plastic blue boxes. I know of a place in montreal that does this type of stuff to mainframes and any type of computers. But they are 40km away, and I am not about to pay $200 in transport costs to haul a microvax II cabinet there. And it isn't the type of stuff I can attach to the back of my bike ;-) > What they are doing in the "great white north" where you live JF is not > necessarily a manifestation of how the rest of north america is handling > the recycling issue. I painted my basement when I moved into my home 20 > years ago and I was required then to take my paint cans to the recycling > center for disposal. Paint has always been considered a "dangerous good" to be disposed at special places. The municipalities have once or twice a year some centres whene you can dump dangerous goods. However, that store not only takes paint cans, but sends it to a company that actually recycles tha paint inside it (instead of disposing it properly). They essentially sort the paint types and then mix them all the oil paints together, and add colouring and various chemicals to make that paint usable again.And you can go dump your paint cans (empty or partly full) to the store any day. They are also setting up to handle compact fluo bulbs. (requires special handling facilities to ensure staff working at that store or handling that recycling will not be harmed by the mercury in those bulbs. Another nearby store does window repairs. They will take your old windows and old glass and send those to a window recycling facility that converts it into glass dust used to make the white lines on roads. The best recycling I saw was 3 L1011 aircraft. The airline emptied the aircraft completly, including all windows. Then they moved it to a different area of airport where a special crane with hydraulic "hand" ripped the place apart and put the pieces in trucks to be sent to an aluminium smelter to be turned into beer cans. Interestingly before that hand started to work, they sawed off the whole tail section. And you could clearly see inside. Without the cabin ceiling, you could really see the size of the fuselage. And I also got to understand how , after a crash, they can rebuilt aircraft: all the parts are really numbered. So when they find som metal part, just by looking at the numbers on it, they can tell exactly where that part was installed. > > > >>Worldwide, I have to assume that there would be fewer than 100 VAXMANs, >>so there really isn't any needto setup official distribution channels >>where those individual will be able to send their old vaxen for recycling. > > ...but there are 1000s or more corporate facilities with far more equip- > ment they are tossing every day. FWIW, my VAX stockpile is down to only > VAX-3100s (M76/M80/M90) and VAX-4000s (VLC and 96). All of my rescued > stock went to other homes -- not landfills! A VAX is a terrible thing to > waste. > > I would be more concerned about the ignominious voluminous glut of mobile > phones tossed out each and every day! I'd wager these dwarf the volume of > microVAXen in the landfills hundredfold. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:32:28 -0800 (PST) From: gorecroot Subject: Talking CV, Video resume, Photos, web pages, data - How much does it take taketa Message-ID: Source : http://www.gorecroot.com Is this the end of the two page resume as we know of it? There are some good reasons to say yes. With the introduction of online job boards, international recruiters and hiring managers have the real need to slice n dice through large volume of resumes at a pop. A digital resume portfolio is increasingly preferred over an emailed or snail mailed resume. The essential difference: Provide career data in a marketable fashion in one neat package. The best of new age job services actually provide a full service for the Jobseeker and often times for free. Job seekers are supported with the ability to follow and stay ahead of the latest trends in resume presentation with voice CV (or talking CV or audio resume), video resume (like one jobber put in a mini video of his training session in the curriculum vitae), multiple photos (good old profile shot, shot of jobseeker at work and, in a relax ambience). All that creates a jobseeker branding and all through web 2.0 enabled easy-to-use technology. Jobseekers can post samples of work, recommendations and awards, video and much more. www.gorecroot.com has some progressive resume presentation or resume builder features. Stopping by would be good use of time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:13:21 -0500 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: Timezone rule change won't stick! Message-ID: <4767f1ab$0$31208$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com> "ChrisL" wrote in message news:ddc173d9-a42b-4f03-8329-c8fb93ef4656@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 17, 8:51 pm, pe...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) > wrote: > >> >The rule should be >> > "GMT0BST-1,M3.5.0/01,M10.5.0/02" >> >> Look again after 1-JAN-2008 and see if you're surprised then ;-) >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/49da4... >> >> HIH >> >> -EPLAN >> >> PS: Isn't WET your correct timezone? >> -- >> Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER >> Network and OpenVMS system specialist >> E-mail pe...@langstoeger.at >> A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist > > Have to be honest Peter that thread didn't clear things up a great > deal for me, (I'll give it another read tomorrow when I'm awake!). > > As far as whether we should be using WET, I don't know? I thought the > Europe/London combo gave me the GMT string I got (and we are in the > UK). > > Thanks > > Chris What Peter is trying to say is that you will not see the new rule until after 1-Jan. JOB_CONTROL will have a TQE posted for 1-Jan which will kick off code to reprocess the TZ rules and update things then. Yes it might have been nice that JOB_CONTROL did all this during the most recent TZ change but it isn't coded that way. So hang on and look at your system after 1-Jan and repost then if you perceive any issues. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:42:34 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Timezone rule change won't stick! Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005BCF64852573B5_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" "Jilly" wrote on 12/18/2007 11:13:21 AM: > > "ChrisL" wrote in message > news:ddc173d9-a42b-4f03-8329-c8fb93ef4656@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com... > > On Dec 17, 8:51 pm, pe...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) > > wrote: > > > >> >The rule should be > >> > "GMT0BST-1,M3.5.0/01,M10.5.0/02" > >> > >> Look again after 1-JAN-2008 and see if you're surprised then ;-) > >> > >> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/49da4... > >> > >> HIH > >> > >> -EPLAN > >> > >> PS: Isn't WET your correct timezone? > >> -- > >> Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER > >> Network and OpenVMS system specialist > >> E-mail pe...@langstoeger.at > >> A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist > > > > Have to be honest Peter that thread didn't clear things up a great > > deal for me, (I'll give it another read tomorrow when I'm awake!). > > > > As far as whether we should be using WET, I don't know? I thought the > > Europe/London combo gave me the GMT string I got (and we are in the > > UK). > > > > Thanks > > > > Chris > > What Peter is trying to say is that you will not see the new rule until > after 1-Jan. JOB_CONTROL will have a TQE posted for 1-Jan which will kick > off code to reprocess the TZ rules and update things then. Yes it might > have been nice that JOB_CONTROL did all this during the most recent TZ > change but it isn't coded that way. So hang on and look at your system > after 1-Jan and repost then if you perceive any issues. > Now wouldn't you expect that little bit of intelligence to be in the release notes for the ECO? Might could someone be persuaded to do a documentation-only update? Oh, never mind, in a few days it will be moot. --=_alternative 005BCF64852573B5_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



"Jilly" <jilly@stny.rr.com> wrote on 12/18/2007 11:13:21 AM:

>
> "ChrisL" <chrisleeworthy@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:ddc173d9-a42b-4f03-8329-c8fb93ef4656@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
> > On Dec 17, 8:51 pm, pe...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER)
> > wrote:
> >
> >> >The rule should be
> >> >  "GMT0BST-1,M3.5.0/01,M10.5.0/02"
> >>
> >> Look again after 1-JAN-2008 and see if you're surprised then ;-)
> >>
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/49da4...
> >>
> >> HIH
> >>
> >> -EPLAN
> >>
> >> PS: Isn't WET your correct timezone?
> >> --
> >> Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER
> >> Network and OpenVMS system specialist
> >> E-mail  pe...@langstoeger.at
> >> A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist
> >
> > Have to be honest Peter that thread didn't clear things up a great
> > deal for me, (I'll give it another read tomorrow when I'm awake!).
> >
> > As far as whether we should be using WET, I don't know? I thought the
> > Europe/London combo gave me the  GMT string I got (and we are in the
> > UK).
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Chris
>
> What Peter is trying to say is that you will not see the new rule until
> after 1-Jan.  JOB_CONTROL will have a TQE posted for 1-Jan which will kick
> off code to reprocess the TZ rules and update things then.  Yes it might
> have been nice that JOB_CONTROL did all this during the most recent TZ
> change but it isn't coded that way.  So hang on and look at your system
> after 1-Jan and repost then if you perceive any issues.
>
Now wouldn't you expect that little bit of intelligence to be in the
release notes for the ECO? Might could someone be persuaded to do a
documentation-only update?  Oh, never mind, in a few days it will be moot.
 --=_alternative 005BCF64852573B5_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:40:23 +0100 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: JF Mezei schrieb: > If Alpha does allow VAXes to MOP boot, I am puzzled why an IA64 wouldn't > support an Alpha booting off it since it has the same code as on Alpha. The answer should be obvious to you: HP wants all alphas and VAXen to be ditched (and itanics to be bought instead), so there would be no need to boot legacy hardware. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:48:06 -0500 From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: In article , Michael Kraemer wrote: > JF Mezei schrieb: > > > If Alpha does allow VAXes to MOP boot, I am puzzled why an IA64 wouldn't > > support an Alpha booting off it since it has the same code as on Alpha. > > The answer should be obvious to you: > HP wants all alphas and VAXen to be ditched > (and itanics to be bought instead), > so there would be no need to boot legacy hardware. That does sound like an answer that would be "obvious" to JF. The reality is usually a lot more boring... When a feature like this has little perceived demand (rightly or wrongly), it's a prime candidate to be dropped from the test plans when there's pressure to keep a VMS release on schedule. Is this feature needed? VMS planners didn't think so. If folks need it, they should let VMS business managers know about their needs. There's plenty of time before the next release to adjust the feature set. We have more stuff on our to-do lists than we can implement and test for the next release. That would be true if VMS had twice its current budget. We have to pick and choose what projects to do. Customer demand is probably the biggest factor in setting priorities. The VMS business managers do their best to understand what customers want. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:04:46 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: Robert Deininger wrote: > When a feature like this has little perceived demand (rightly or > wrongly), it's a prime candidate to be dropped from the test plans when > there's pressure to keep a VMS release on schedule. The way it was described, it *appears* that code was added to disable coss platform booting. If the resources are so scares and release schedule so tight, you'd think they would have just used the same code as on Alpha and just mebntion that corss platform booting is not supported. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.692 ************************