INFO-VAX Mon, 28 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 56 Contents: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DEGXA Gigabit card special Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: PowerTerm 525 & eXcursion Re: Using disk space on NAS? Re: Using disk space on NAS? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Jan 2008 13:32:05 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <6063qlF1oud77U1@mid.individual.net> In article , Roger Ivie writes: > On 2008-01-27, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Roger Ivie wrote: >>> On 2008-01-27, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>> 2. Because they actually use the 30-some years of computing research >>>>> rather than re-inventing things (badly) because of NIH syndrome. >>>> Hmm. What OS's were it that revived pcc to avoid using the existing >>>> gcc ? >>> >>> BSD's gripe with gcc is slightly more complex than NIH. >> >> If it was not because of NIH, then I think the problems >> could have been resolved in a different way > > As I understand it, among the large gripes is that gcc keeps trying to > retire support for many architectures that NetBSD considers important. I > believe the VAX folks have gone a few rounds with gcc, for example; I > seem to recall NetBSD/VAX using an older version of gcc for quite some > time because gcc was not maintaining the VAX port. > > It's been some time since I gave NetBSD/VAX a go and I haven't paying > terribly close attention to the conflict, so I don't know all of the > details. I do know that NetBSD's and gcc's goals are sufficiently > different to cause friction. And then you have people like me who still work wit the PDP-11. How long ago did they decide not to support the PDP-11 as a cross compiling target anymore? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 13:40:34 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <6064aiF1oud77U2@mid.individual.net> In article <479cd55d$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article <479bf9b8$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, >> Arne Vajhøj writes: >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>> In article , >>>> JKB writes: >>>>>> If you want to know what I think the best solution is, (well, you >>>>>> probably don't, but I'll say it anyway) I think a group of people >>>>>> who are interested in the ability to run VMS programs and have the >>>>>> security and stability VMS offers should take something like NetBSD >>>>>> or OpenBSD and create a new tree. >>>>> Why NetBSD or OpenBSD were better than Linux kernel ? >>>> 1. Because they are not infected with the GNU Public Virus >>> That is politics/ideology not technical. >> >> Did I say it wasn't? Just like in business, you have to look at the >> whole picture. > > Not really. > > If you want the technical best you want the technical best. Business is not about "the technical best". If it were would we still have MicroSoft? Business is about making money and anything that poses a possible problem to that needs to be taken into consideration. > > If you want to state your opinion about RMS and FSF, then > you look at the license stuff. > > An OS that start by focusing on license politics sound > chanceless to me. All depends on the reason for doing it. If it is all for fun and personal fulfillment then I guess you don't care but if it is about business (including competitive advantage) then the rules change. > >>>> 2. Because they actually use the 30-some years of computing research >>>> rather than re-inventing things (badly) because of NIH syndrome. >>> Hmm. What OS's were it that revived pcc to avoid using the existing >>> gcc ? >> >> I give up, what OSes? > > BSD. Not FreeBSD. I just checked and all my servers up thru 6.1 have gcc. > >> And what does that have to do with the statement >> above? Reusal to use GPL infected software is not NIH syndrome. > > The difference between "code not using *our* license" and "code not > written by *us*" is not that big. Certainly it is. One can be a very rational decision while the other isn't. > >> Being >> dis-satisfied with the performance or code generated by GCC is not NIH >> syndrome > > From the original announcement: > >> It is not yet bug-free, but it can compile the i386 userspace. The >> big benefit of it (apart from that it's BSD licensed, for license >> geeks :-) is that it is fast, 5-10 times faster than gcc, while still >> producing reasonable code. The only optimization added so far is a >> multiple-register-class graph-coloring register allocator, which may >> be one of the best register allocators today. Conversion to SSA >> format is also implemented, but not yet the phi function. Not too >> difficult though, after that strength reduction is high on the list. > > Compiling 10 times faster with almost no optimization does not > match what you wrote very well. Huh? I think you have that backwards. I said it wasn't NIH and that they could be dis-satisfied with performance or code generated. They said it was because of license and performance. Sounds like I hit the nail right on the head. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 13:41:51 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <6064cvF1oud77U3@mid.individual.net> In article , Keith Parris writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> I believe that depends on the availability of the book. If it is >> publicly published and contains only concepts and not code I see >> no reason it could not be used. Implementations can be copyrighted >> not concepts. And if the book is published and available to the >> public, then it is not "trade secret". Was the book openly available >> or only under NDA? > > The Internals & Data Structures books, Kirby McCoy's VMS File System > Internals, and Roy G. Davis' VAXcluster Principles were all openly > published. In that case I would say they are fair game as references for writing a clone. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 13:43:37 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <6064g9F1oud77U4@mid.individual.net> In article <479cd63f$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article <479bfbc9$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, >> Arne Vajhøj writes: >>> IDS covers more "how" than "what". >>> >>> A FreeVMS implementation that were following best practices of >>> today regarding protection against IP lawsuits would require >>> of their contributors not only never having seen VMS listings >>> but also never having read a book like IDS. >> >> I believe that depends on the availability of the book. If it is >> publicly published and contains only concepts and not code I see >> no reason it could not be used. Implementations can be copyrighted >> not concepts. And if the book is published and available to the >> public, then it is not "trade secret". Was the book openly available >> or only under NDA? > > No - the book was public available. > > That does not prevent potential IP issues. IANAL but I sure don't see how. As long as you don't copy any code samples verbatim. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 18:01:02 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <606jitF1ph41pU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Roger Ivie writes: > On 2008-01-28, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article , >> Roger Ivie writes: >>> As I understand it, among the large gripes is that gcc keeps trying to >>> retire support for many architectures that NetBSD considers important. >> >> And then you have people like me who still work wit the PDP-11. How long >> ago did they decide not to support the PDP-11 as a cross compiling target >> anymore? > > Sure, but that probably wouldn't bother NetBSD much; there isn't a > NetBSD PDP-11 port. > > Did BSD 2.mumble ever use gcc? It's up to 2.11 and at least patchlevel 431. It never used GCC (thank god). bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 18:14:55 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <606kcvF1p07ldU1@mid.individual.net> In article <479df848$0$16196$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > If you want to build VMS on an 8086 in order to avoid having to learn > Unix and continue to use VMS after HP has killed it, I am not sure it is > the right approach. > > The right approach would be to make VMS tools such as TPU available on > Unix so that one could become comfortable with Unix at a much faster pace. How would learning VMS tools make one comfortable with Unix faster? Seems to me that if one never learned the Unix way they would never be comfortable with Unix and they wo8uld be severly handicaped when not sitting at a terminal on their home system. > > Sorry to be blunt, but lets face it, our VMS skills are not worth much > anymore. Prolonging the pain by making a freeVMS available isn't really > going to increase your net worth because you will continue with > unmarketable skills. If that were the only reason for using VMS, you would be right. > > But having tools/help to convert yur VMS skills into Unix skill that are > marketable is where the value is. See above. Doing things the VMS way on a UNix system is not going to give you marketable Unix skills any more than using cd, pwd and rm makes you a more productive VMS programmer. > > Having TPU on Unix would make you productive right away with editing > files. Forcing you to learn vi or emacs will waste weeks before you are > comfortable, and years of experience before you are as productive with > it as with TPU. The help system is just not as sophisticated and it is > thus much harder to learn if you don't know exactly what you're looking for. Bullcrap. It is all a matter of what you are used to. I can seldom find anything useful online with VMS and usually end out resorting to the printed documentation and in particular, the master index. I have never had a problem finding what I needed on Unix. And, yes, I do sometimes resort to printed books for that, too. > > Heck, yesterday, I tried my hands at EMACS. man said to press CTRL-H to > get help. But for me (since I live in a different universe), it simply > did a backspace ! Had to use the KILL command to ensure I would get out > of EMACS without saving anything. (and I provabaly left some temp files > lying around that I don't know about) Don't blame Unix for that, blame EMACS (and, in the long run, Stalman who foisted EMACS on the world!!) > > But in the end, I know I have to let go of VMS. Lets face it, the > "freeVMS" project, even if succesful at the technical level, will not > create a marketplace where VMS skills will be in demand. I don't know that I would say that. If a true clone of VMS, one that offered all the things that VMS truly has to offer, were to come into existence, in a form that was economically and successfully marketable, I think it could easily make a comeback. VMS has a lot to offer. It is truly sad that its current owners wish to see it just go away, but that does not mean there would be no demand for it. > > But making VMS tools such as TPU available on Unix would help a lot of > people move to a marketable skillset and reduce the "downtime" while the > person is learning Unix. See above. If you continue to use TPU what do you do when you have to visit a customer site where your TPU clone is not installed? Probably end out looking like an idiot and definitely don't get called again. > > > When users beg HP to market VMS, it is also to make VMS skillset more > valuable on the marketplace. Lack of marketing makes our VMS skills > worthless. The number of people begging HP to market VMS only goes to prove there is, in fact, a viable market for VMS. Too bad any chance of seeing a real VMS clone is just a pipe dream. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 18:19:49 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <606km5F1p07ldU2@mid.individual.net> In article , "FredK" writes: > Not to plug anybody's product, but not everything in life is free... > > http://www.sector7.com/products_and_services/openvms/third_party_tools/nutpu/ > Which is why I said a clone of VMS needs to be free of the the encumbrance that is the GPL. There is a market for it but the amount of work it would require would mean there has to be a way to recoup the investment. Free software is nice, but programmers have to eat, too. If you want to develop third rate pseudo database systems in your garage, that's fine but how many people are still buying Oracle and DB2? Just as another note, I believe the needed skills and probably even the interest to do a VMS clone in line with the development model I proposed exists and that it could be done before HP pulls the plug on the real thing. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 18:21:47 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <606kprF1p07ldU3@mid.individual.net> In article , m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes: > In article <479df848$0$16196$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > writes: > >> Having TPU on Unix would make you productive right away with editing >> files. Forcing you to learn vi or emacs will waste weeks before you are >> comfortable, and years of experience before you are as productive with >> it as with TPU. > > come on, you're kidding, right ? > "vi" these days is the last resort if you've got no GUI > or if you want to have that certain retro feeling. Or if you hav been using it for so long it is by far the editor you are the most productive with!! :-) > As an IT professional you don't need weeks to learn a more recent editor. > If emacs is too heavy weight for you, you may try the lean "nedit" > instead. It might even be available for VMS, and if you're not > running on a workstation you can export its output to a Mac's > X11 server. The number of editors available for Unix is just plain mind-boggling. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:23:19 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: Ah, a new non-ANSI xterm extension. My guess is that the sequence it sends is another one of those badly broken OSC type sequences that xterm allows to be terminated with a BELL character. The same reason that the sequence that changes the banner text hangs. Neither DECterm (or VWS for that matter) or xterm does real "smooth" scrolling, which on a VT100 was a scanline at a time. Both implement a form of "jump" scrolling where multiple lines of text can update at once during scrolling instead of a single line at a time. The main difference between the two is that the amount of jump can be controlled on DECterm (the batch count) where on xterm there is no means to limit it - a batch count as large as the terminal line count is the same thing. Under that situation doing something like TYPE of a file to a screen can result in a few lines being output, everything in the middle skipped, and the last screen being displayed. The main limitation to DECterm and xterm is that unlike the VWS emulator - it only works in the UP scroll direction (linefeed/index) and not in the DOWN scroll direction (reverse index). So editing scrolls fast down through the file and slow up through the file. With systems and graphics being so fast today, this isn't usually a huge issue anymore. This "screen" thing sounds interesting. But it is the type of thing that is only possible if you have someone to work full time on it (as a job or hobby). It isn't clear how useful (multi-session terminal capability) these days where serial connections are less likely to be the norm, and TELNET is more common - so just have multiple terminal windows. Missing LK keys need a combination of both support in the emulator, and support in the driver. The keys need to be handled by the driver and handed up to the emulator, and the emulator has to be capable of knowing what they are. Usually scancodes are converted by the driver (or in the X11 case in Xlib) to some normalized input codes - so the codes have to get out of the driver and there needs to be knowledge of how to map them. I'll scratch around a little on the UTF-8 question, but the best thing is to see customer requests come in so it can be prioritized. I guess I should not be suprised that the UNIX world has remained wedded to some type of terminal input. "John E. Malmberg" wrote in message news:67bnj.4622$9j6.4294@attbi_s22... > FredK wrote: >> xterm already has been ported to OpenVMS as far as I remember. > > That does not surprise me. I may go looking for it. > > The PERL on VMS self test for UTF-8 handling sends out a sequence that > locks up a DECTerm. > > I do recall you posting before something about special code in DECterm to > support screen updates. I think it was for smooth scolling. > >> I do not recall any request from any customer for UTF-8 support on >> DECterm. Sheesh. Most of the world uses crappy VT100+ emulators from >> Microsoft. Is the ANSI standards stuff for terminals still active? > > Pretty much. It seems that the PUTTY emulator terminal program has become > the most popular one for LINUX and Windows, having both support for SSH > and being free. > > The big drawback for Putty so far for me is a lack of support to emulate > the missing LK keys from a PC keyboard. > > But it is open source, so it is possible for anyone to customize it. > > The other popular program is called screen, which allows the controlling > terminal to detach and reattach to a session. One big difference between > it and disconnectable terminals is that with screen, the session keeps on > running while disconnected while screen buffers the output. > >> Has UTF-8 replaced ISO Latin-1? > > In the UNIX/LINUX world, it appears so. > > Open Source programs ported from LINUX are now assuming that the terminals > are ANSI and UTF8, and also that the filenames can be in UTF-8. > > -John > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:30:11 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: I am not arguing that there isn't a widespread use of UTF-8. It has become a requirement for web pages and even e-mail. On Windows, "terminal" emulation is a rarity - unless the user is interacting with a legacy UNIX/VMS application. The basic Windows command window is a PCterm (a modified VT100). There is at least a couple JAVA based terminal emulations for embedding inside a web browser (also simple VT100-like emulation). I am suprised that it has made its way into some terminal emulators. "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:479d4479$0$90276$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > John E. Malmberg wrote: >> FredK wrote: >>> Has UTF-8 replaced ISO Latin-1? >> >> In the UNIX/LINUX world, it appears so. >> >> Open Source programs ported from LINUX are now assuming that the >> terminals are ANSI and UTF8, and also that the filenames can be in UTF-8. > > With .NET then Windows is also moving towards UTF-8. > > There are good drivers for it in the increasingly importance > of the asian markets. > > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:08:26 GMT From: Roger Ivie Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: On 2008-01-28, FredK wrote: > The basic Windows command > window is a PCterm (a modified VT100). No, it's not. The basic Windows command line does not process escape sequences AT ALL. You HAVE to use the Windows API to do stuff. -- roger ivie rivie@ridgenet.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:34:33 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: According to a brief search, applications should first be doing something like: utf8_mode = (strcmp(nl_langinfo(CODESET), "UTF-8") == 0); or char *s; int utf8_mode = 0; if (((s = getenv("LC_ALL")) && *s) || ((s = getenv("LC_CTYPE")) && *s) || ((s = getenv("LANG")) && *s)) { if (strstr(s, "UTF-8")) utf8_mode = 1; } to check for UTF-8 encoding. They were not swift enough to invent a VT-like terminal query to find out if the emulator is UTF-8 capable. It sounds like the applications in question are simply assuming UTF-8 is available on the emulator. From a quick look at the DECterm code, the control sequence (suprise, they actually did register one!) %G is ignored - so my guess is that the terminal 'hang' is a result of a subsequent byte in the UTF-8 stream that is encoding a non-ASCII character with a multi-byte character. The encoding for these characters seem to fall into the ANSI C1 control set. As to the degree of difficulty in merging UTF-8 into a VT400/500 terminal emulator... that is hard to say. There is multi-byte support for Kanji - which means it is possible that some basic groundwork has been done (16-bit fonts). The incoming byte stream would need a UTF-8 handler to seperate out the non-graphic data to feed to the ANSI parser, and the variable sized graphic character input normalized either into a 16-bit quantity or an attribute that shifts the encoding for the character correctly. Not trivial. Not brain surgery. Some significant work just from the point of view that the "core" terminal emulation logic hasn't been extensively changed in something like 15 years. Probably simpler all around for those Linux/UNIX applications to just find/update a recent xterm port. "FredK" wrote in message news:fnkogo$d2p$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > > Ah, a new non-ANSI xterm extension. My guess is that the sequence it > sends is another one of those badly broken OSC type sequences that xterm > allows to be terminated with a BELL character. The same reason that the > sequence that changes the banner text hangs. > > Neither DECterm (or VWS for that matter) or xterm does real "smooth" > scrolling, which on a VT100 was a scanline at a time. Both implement a > form of "jump" scrolling where multiple lines of text can update at once > during scrolling instead of a single line at a time. The main difference > between the two is that the amount of jump can be controlled on DECterm > (the batch count) where on xterm there is no means to limit it - a batch > count as large as the terminal line count is the same thing. Under that > situation doing something like TYPE of a file to a screen can result in a > few lines being output, everything in the middle skipped, and the last > screen being displayed. The main limitation to DECterm and xterm is that > unlike the VWS emulator - it only works in the UP scroll direction > (linefeed/index) and not in the DOWN scroll direction (reverse index). So > editing scrolls fast down through the file and slow up through the file. > With systems and graphics being so fast today, this isn't usually a huge > issue anymore. > > This "screen" thing sounds interesting. But it is the type of thing that > is only possible if you have someone to work full time on it (as a job or > hobby). It isn't clear how useful (multi-session terminal capability) > these days where serial connections are less likely to be the norm, and > TELNET is more common - so just have multiple terminal windows. > > Missing LK keys need a combination of both support in the emulator, and > support in the driver. The keys need to be handled by the driver and > handed up to the emulator, and the emulator has to be capable of knowing > what they are. Usually scancodes are converted by the driver (or in the > X11 case in Xlib) to some normalized input codes - so the codes have to > get out of the driver and there needs to be knowledge of how to map them. > > I'll scratch around a little on the UTF-8 question, but the best thing is > to see customer requests come in so it can be prioritized. I guess I > should not be suprised that the UNIX world has remained wedded to some > type of terminal input. > > > > "John E. Malmberg" wrote in message > news:67bnj.4622$9j6.4294@attbi_s22... >> FredK wrote: >>> xterm already has been ported to OpenVMS as far as I remember. >> >> That does not surprise me. I may go looking for it. >> >> The PERL on VMS self test for UTF-8 handling sends out a sequence that >> locks up a DECTerm. >> >> I do recall you posting before something about special code in DECterm to >> support screen updates. I think it was for smooth scolling. >> >>> I do not recall any request from any customer for UTF-8 support on >>> DECterm. Sheesh. Most of the world uses crappy VT100+ emulators from >>> Microsoft. Is the ANSI standards stuff for terminals still active? >> >> Pretty much. It seems that the PUTTY emulator terminal program has >> become the most popular one for LINUX and Windows, having both support >> for SSH and being free. >> >> The big drawback for Putty so far for me is a lack of support to emulate >> the missing LK keys from a PC keyboard. >> >> But it is open source, so it is possible for anyone to customize it. >> >> The other popular program is called screen, which allows the controlling >> terminal to detach and reattach to a session. One big difference between >> it and disconnectable terminals is that with screen, the session keeps on >> running while disconnected while screen buffers the output. >> >>> Has UTF-8 replaced ISO Latin-1? >> >> In the UNIX/LINUX world, it appears so. >> >> Open Source programs ported from LINUX are now assuming that the >> terminals are ANSI and UTF8, and also that the filenames can be in UTF-8. >> >> -John >> wb8tyw@qsl.network >> Personal Opinion Only >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:35:24 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: OK. Hyperterm. "Roger Ivie" wrote in message news:slrnfprrva.cdh.rivie@stench.no.domain... > On 2008-01-28, FredK wrote: >> The basic Windows command >> window is a PCterm (a modified VT100). > > No, it's not. The basic Windows command line does not process escape > sequences AT ALL. You HAVE to use the Windows API to do stuff. > -- > roger ivie > rivie@ridgenet.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:46:46 -0000 From: Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: <13ps1nmm43vqi7b@corp.supernews.com> FredK wrote: > Ah, a new non-ANSI xterm extension. My guess is that the sequence it sends > is another one of those badly broken OSC type sequences that xterm allows to > be terminated with a BELL character. The same reason that the sequence that > changes the banner text hangs. xterm's done that for almost 20 years (probably because 8-bit clean connections weren't that common). Since it's been there for a while, it's not something to remove. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:48:32 -0000 From: Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: <13ps1r0niirk8c6@corp.supernews.com> FredK wrote: > xterm is mostly junk written by people with only a hazy idea of ANSI > standards at best. But like PCterm - they didn't really care much about > compliance with a standard. glad to see your comments. too bad they're worthless. regards. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:07:08 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: "Thomas Dickey" wrote in message news:13ps1nmm43vqi7b@corp.supernews.com... > FredK wrote: > >> Ah, a new non-ANSI xterm extension. My guess is that the sequence it >> sends >> is another one of those badly broken OSC type sequences that xterm allows >> to >> be terminated with a BELL character. The same reason that the sequence >> that >> changes the banner text hangs. > > xterm's done that for almost 20 years > (probably because 8-bit clean connections weren't that common). > Since it's been there for a while, it's not something to remove. > 1) String Terminator doesn't require an 8 bit form, it can be a 2-byte sequence. 2) Using BELL as a terminator isn't compliant with the ANSI parsing rules 3) xterm will (now at least) accept it 4) Old UNIX applications still send BELL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:19:19 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: "Thomas Dickey" wrote in message news:13ps1r0niirk8c6@corp.supernews.com... > FredK wrote: > >> xterm is mostly junk written by people with only a hazy idea of ANSI >> standards at best. But like PCterm - they didn't really care much about >> compliance with a standard. > > glad to see your comments. too bad they're worthless. > You know, xterm post-dates the VT500. It was filled with "escape" sequences that are illegal. PCterm's parser was so loosely written and poorly documented, that some random guys web page that told *incorrectly* what the escape sequences were - became so widespread that I had to convince why their software was sending the incorrect sequences and screwing up real VTxxx emulators. You might not think it is "junk" - and I'll admit that xterm has incrementally improved over time. But having paid my dues and spent time writing terminal emulation and defining and negotiating *legal* escape/control sequences - I am yet to be convinced that the initial coders knew much about terminals. xterm and PCterm were hacks of varying levels of correctness when released into the wild, and didn't always follow the rules. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 08:10:47 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: DEGXA Gigabit card special Message-ID: <9e6be2c1-638f-455c-b7f3-96b4719ed945@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com> On Jan 26, 4:46 pm, "John E. Malmberg" wrote: > heal...@aracnet.com wrote: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> That;s funny. Just after marking it read I thought I should > >> have asked if they were QBUS. Of course, I would have put > >> it in my PDP-11 before even thinking about puting it into one > >> of my VAXen. :-) It is supported by Ultrix-11, right? :-) > > > I believe there is a 100Mbit card available for Q-Bus, but given the speed > > of the Q-us itself it somehow seems pointless. OTOH, I wouldn't mind having > > a FDDI card to put in a MicroVAX II. > > The only 100Mbit card that I can remember for VAX connected to a private > bus on the VAX 4000-100 series that other I/O was also connected to. It > was a third party offering. > > -John > wb8...@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only Nemonix. I have one of their expansions for a 4000-100 but the system got decommissioned and traded in before it could be installed. I don't recall now if it was the 100Mbit network or the UltraSCSI interface (or the one that did both). Thats a good price on the gigabit card; the older DEGPA-TA consistently sells higher than that on epay. Wish I had a use for it, but all our infrastructure is still 100Mbit and the only systems I could use them in are DS10-Ls which have no available slots. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:27:09 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <95f5d521-fdce-4c89-91d2-7dffcd94bff0@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Jan 27, 12:38 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > yyyc186 wrote: > > On Jan 24, 8:55 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >> yyyc186 wrote: > >>> On Jan 21, 4:36 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >>>>> ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the > >>>>> impression that the rule was one application per server! At the ver= y > >>>>> least, one application at a time!! > >>>> Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. > >>> That is the rule unless you want large publicly visible outages. > >> Lots of Windows servers run multiple apps. Maybe the majority of them. > > >> There are millions of small companies out there using WinSBS (with > >> either Exchange+IIS eller Exhange+IIS+SQLServer+ISA). > > > And there are companies that I've been to who reboot exchange servers > > a minimum of 3 times per day because of crashes. > > I think they need a better admin. > > That is not the norm. > > Arne It's the norm for every site I've been too. No, I don't touch the Windoze boxes, just hear everybody complaining about how Exchange is down yet again today. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:28:49 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <69fbb5d1-1605-4f1b-8b67-8a2954c31811@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jan 27, 12:40 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > yyyc186 wrote: > > On Jan 24, 8:51 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >> SharePoint run in IIS, so they have to be on the same box. > > > SharePoint, now THERE is a God-awful product no professional would > > have designed, developed, or worked on. That thing must be where the > > team from Microsoft Bob went. > > It is getting very popular these days. It seems to meet customers > requirements. > > Arne Truth be told, it doesn't meet any requirements other than to inflate MS income. It is quite a pathetic product which looks more like a poor imitation of Netware 3.11 than anything else. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:04:15 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13pqvjhrkpur3b7@corp.supernews.com> JF Mezei wrote: > I don't recall how I succeeded this yet. > > But this is what SHOW MOUNT/FULL shows: >> $ tcpip show mount/full >> _DNFS1:[000000] mounted >> BRAKES.vixenation.ca:/ >> Transport TCPIP-UDP Writing Enabled >> Read/write size 8192/8192 Write conversion Enabled >> RPC timeout 0 00:00:01.00 ADF usage USE,UPDATE,CREATE >> RPC retry limit 4 Fileids Unique >> Attribute time 0 00:00:15.00 Server type UNIX >> Directory time 0 00:00:30.00 Advisory Locking Disabled >> Cache Validation MODIFY TIME Default user [DECNET] >> Superuser No Default UID,GID 501,501 > > > 501,501 is the uid/gid of my account on the mac. So by default, the mac > lets the vms machine act as me in terms of file accesses. > > But I also have a proxy for both incoming and outgoing mapping my VMS > username to 501,501, and mapping SYSTEM to 0,0 > > To get ODS5 capabilities, you need to specify the server type of UNIX, > even if the doc says it is there by default. Hi JF What is your mount command, as I can't see a path in the listing above? If I use tcpip mou/host="x.y.z"/path="NFSdata" etc...(which is the NFS share exported name ) I get: $ tcpip sho mou/fu _DNFS1:[000000] mounted monitorserver.x.y.z:nfsdata Transport TCPIP-UDP Writing Enabled Read/write size 8192/8192 Write conversion Enabled RPC timeout 0 00:00:01.00 ADF usage NOUSE,NOUPDATE,NOCREATE RPC retry limit 4 Fileids Unique Attribute time 0 00:00:15.00 Server type UNIX Directory time 0 00:00:30.00 Advisory Locking Disabled Cache Validation MODIFY TIME Default user [DEFAULT] Superuser No Default UID,GID 0,0 If I use tcpip mou/host="x.y.z"/path="/d/nfsdata/" etc...(which is the disk/directory structure location on the windows server) I get: $ tcpip sho mou/fu _DNFS1:[000000] mounted monitorserver.x.y.z:/d/nfsdata Transport TCPIP-UDP Writing Enabled Read/write size 8192/8192 Write conversion Enabled RPC timeout 0 00:00:01.00 ADF usage NOUSE,NOUPDATE,NOCREATE RPC retry limit 4 Fileids Unique Attribute time 0 00:00:15.00 Server type UNIX Directory time 0 00:00:30.00 Advisory Locking Disabled Cache Validation MODIFY TIME Default user [DEFAULT] Superuser No Default UID,GID 0,0 0,0 doesn't exist - so I deleted the mappings in Windows and started by creating a group mapping of 4 for system and 100 for users. I then mapped users with 1 for domain admins and also 1 for my windows username. So, when I issue the mount command I have now tried it with /UID=1/GID=4 (VMS system account UIC) and /UID=1/GID=100 (my vms UIC). Both mount fine but neither will not allow me to list the files - I still get a user mapping error - only on Windows, the others still work fine *without* any of the crazy flags....... So, using a /UID/GID that matches a VMS UIC still gives me the RMS-E-PRV, but *doesn't* give a windows mapping failure!!!!! By default, the anonymous UID/GID on windows is -2,-2. If I change that to 1,4 (ie VMS system), then I again get windows mapping failures even if I mount with /UID=1/GID=4. In summary, on VMS using a "real" UIC to map to a windows UID/GID makes no difference to the mount result, but *does* stop the windows mapping errors in the log file. However, I still get the RMS-E-PRV, so VMS still doesn't like something..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:02:04 +0100 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: When mapping UID/GID from VMS to Windows and vice versa you need to have hostnames in local database and also proxies defined correctly. And most important, also need the right mapping on windows. So here are steps: 1. Add host into TCPIP local host database 2. Define proxies for VMS users TCPIP ADD PROXY user /UID=uid /GID=gid /HOST=winhost 3. Create passwd file winuser:x:uid:gid::::user - VMSUSER ... here you'll create translation betwen VMS users and Windows users via uid/gid pairs. 4. Define username mapping server on windows . 5. List mapping servers in .maphosts file. 6. Use simple maps and passwd file as source in "User Name Mapping" for users. 7. now you should be ready to mount nfs drive via MOUNT DNFSx: vol_label log_name /path="unix_path" /host=host /structure=ods5/noadf If mappings is working, then now you should have working access to NFS drive. Most problems arise due to nonworking username mappings. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 04:21:06 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <479d9f96$0$29095$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Gremlin wrote: > What is your mount command, as I can't see a path in the listing above? Had to use Google to find my previous post (and I'll need it for the next power failure when half the stuff that appears to work now will probably be broken :-) $TCPIP MOUNT DNFS1:/HOST=BRAKES/PATH="/"- /UID=501/GID=501/SERVER=UNIX/STRUCT=5 On the mac: "name" = ( "exports" ); CHILDREN = ( { "name" = ( "/" ); "clients" = ( "10.0.0.7", "10.0.0.10", "10.0.0.11" ); "opts" = ( "alldirs" ); } > 0,0 doesn't exist - so I deleted the mappings in Windows and started by > creating a group mapping of 4 for system and 100 for users. I then > mapped users with 1 for domain admins and also 1 for my windows username. My philosophy on this is to open the gates and get a mount to work, and then narrow the security and other parameters down. Once you have a repeatable working mount, you can work with the security and user mappings etc. > So, when I issue the mount command I have now tried it with /UID=1/GID=4 > (VMS system account UIC) and /UID=1/GID=100 (my vms UIC). There is absolutely no , NONE, NADA corrolation between the VMS UIC and the GID/UID. You need to create a proxy entry in the TCPIP database that maps a VMS *USERNAME* with a Unix UID/GID. TCPIP> ADD PROXY vmsusername/UID=yy/GID=xx/NFS=(INCOMING,OUTGOING) xx and yy are the UID/GD of the remote system. So when user "vmsusername" does a "DIR DNFS1:[000000]" , the VMS system will lookup the proxy database and then emit a NFS request coming from user UID=yy GID=xx In the TCPIP Services Management manual, there is a fairly big section for NFS, as well as a section on NFS on Windows. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:57:12 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13pr9nptpkqap17@corp.supernews.com> Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > When mapping UID/GID from VMS to Windows and vice versa > you need to have hostnames in local database and also proxies defined > correctly. > > And most important, also need the right mapping on windows. > > So here are steps: > > 1. Add host into TCPIP local host database > 2. Define proxies for VMS users > TCPIP ADD PROXY user /UID=uid /GID=gid /HOST=winhost > 3. Create passwd file > winuser:x:uid:gid::::user - VMSUSER > ... > here you'll create translation betwen VMS users and Windows > users via uid/gid pairs. > > 4. Define username mapping server on windows . > 5. List mapping servers in .maphosts file. > 6. Use simple maps and passwd file as source in "User Name Mapping" for > users. > 7. now you should be ready to mount nfs drive via > MOUNT DNFSx: vol_label log_name /path="unix_path" /host=host > /structure=ods5/noadf > > If mappings is working, then now you should have working access to NFS > drive. > > Most problems arise due to nonworking username mappings. > > Best, Gorazd > > > > Hi All (and thanks for taking the time to think about this....) So, on the VMS side... TCPIP> sho prox/fu VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name Me OND 1 100 * In windows, passwd file: root:x:1:4:root::::/root:/bin/sh Me:x:1:100::::Me:/Me:/bin/sh system:x:1:4::::system:/system:/bin/sh Mapping in windows is: - Windows Me to "unix" me - Windows Administrator to "unix" system On Windows2003R2 there is no .maphosts file Mount works fine, listing directory contents fails with mapping error... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:01:09 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13pr9v67avahm75@corp.supernews.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Gremlin wrote: > >> What is your mount command, as I can't see a path in the listing above? > > > Had to use Google to find my previous post (and I'll need it for the > next power failure when half the stuff that appears to work now will > probably be broken :-) > > > $TCPIP MOUNT DNFS1:/HOST=BRAKES/PATH="/"- > /UID=501/GID=501/SERVER=UNIX/STRUCT=5 > > > On the mac: > > "name" = ( "exports" ); > CHILDREN = ( > { > "name" = ( "/" ); > "clients" = ( "10.0.0.7", "10.0.0.10", "10.0.0.11" ); > "opts" = ( "alldirs" ); > } > > > >> 0,0 doesn't exist - so I deleted the mappings in Windows and started by >> creating a group mapping of 4 for system and 100 for users. I then >> mapped users with 1 for domain admins and also 1 for my windows username. > > > My philosophy on this is to open the gates and get a mount to work, and > then narrow the security and other parameters down. Once you have a > repeatable working mount, you can work with the security and user > mappings etc. > >> So, when I issue the mount command I have now tried it with /UID=1/GID=4 >> (VMS system account UIC) and /UID=1/GID=100 (my vms UIC). > > There is absolutely no , NONE, NADA corrolation between the VMS UIC and > the GID/UID. > > You need to create a proxy entry in the TCPIP database that maps a VMS > *USERNAME* with a Unix UID/GID. > > TCPIP> ADD PROXY vmsusername/UID=yy/GID=xx/NFS=(INCOMING,OUTGOING) > > xx and yy are the UID/GD of the remote system. > > So when user "vmsusername" does a "DIR DNFS1:[000000]" , the VMS system > will lookup the proxy database and then emit a NFS request coming from > user UID=yy GID=xx > > In the TCPIP Services Management manual, there is a fairly big section > for NFS, as well as a section on NFS on Windows. > Hi JF Using your path="/" gives me.... tcpip mou dnfs1: data1 /host="x.y.z" /system /structure=5 /noadf /path="/" %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-E-MOUNTFAIL, error mounting _DNFS1:[000000] -SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violation Using path="/d/nfsdata" (physical location on the Windows server) or path="nfsdata" (exported nfs share name) works fine..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:54:39 +0100 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: "Gremlin" wrote in message news:13pr9nptpkqap17@corp.supernews.com... > Hi All (and thanks for taking the time to think about this....) > > So, on the VMS side... > > TCPIP> sho prox/fu > > VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name > > Me OND 1 100 * > > In windows, passwd file: > root:x:1:4:root::::/root:/bin/sh > Me:x:1:100::::Me:/Me:/bin/sh > system:x:1:4::::system:/system:/bin/sh You should have only Windows usernames in first column. So if you don't have root or system users on windows, don't put it there. Use only windows names. And don't use more than one user->UID/GID mapping. It will scrue mappings completly. So use passwd file like this: Administrator:x:10:4:root::::/root:/bin/sh Me:x:1:100::::Me:/Me:/bin/sh UID MUST BE UNIQUE!!!!!!! > > Mapping in windows is: > - Windows Me to "unix" me > - Windows Administrator to "unix" system > > On Windows2003R2 there is no .maphosts file > > Mount works fine, listing directory contents fails with mapping error... If .maphosts file doesn't exist, you should create one :-) At least on SFU it is located at \msnfs\mapper\.maphosts and it should have localhost in it. As I write before, most probably reason that you can't access files is in username mappings. Try resync it. Also there was a fameous problem with windows authorization if you have more than one DC on network. And if NFS server is not DC, then DC need to have Authorization Service for NFS installed (at least for SFU to work) Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:16:49 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13pred3ep0mfn5e@corp.supernews.com> Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > "Gremlin" wrote in message > news:13pr9nptpkqap17@corp.supernews.com... >> Hi All (and thanks for taking the time to think about this....) >> >> So, on the VMS side... >> >> TCPIP> sho prox/fu >> >> VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name >> >> Me OND 1 100 * >> >> In windows, passwd file: >> root:x:1:4:root::::/root:/bin/sh >> Me:x:1:100::::Me:/Me:/bin/sh >> system:x:1:4::::system:/system:/bin/sh > > You should have only Windows usernames in first column. So if you don't > have root or system users on windows, don't put it there. Use only windows > names. > And don't use more than one user->UID/GID mapping. It will scrue mappings > completly. > > So use passwd file like this: > Administrator:x:10:4:root::::/root:/bin/sh > Me:x:1:100::::Me:/Me:/bin/sh > > UID MUST BE UNIQUE!!!!!!! > > >> Mapping in windows is: >> - Windows Me to "unix" me >> - Windows Administrator to "unix" system > > >> On Windows2003R2 there is no .maphosts file >> >> Mount works fine, listing directory contents fails with mapping error... > > If .maphosts file doesn't exist, you should create one :-) > At least on SFU it is located at \msnfs\mapper\.maphosts > and it should have localhost in it. > > As I write before, most probably reason that you can't access files is > in username mappings. Try resync it. Also there was a fameous problem > with windows authorization if you have more than one DC on network. And > if NFS server is not DC, then DC need to have Authorization Service for NFS > installed (at least for SFU to work) > > Best, Gorazd > > > Hi Yes, realised the problem with the passwd file, so it is now changed to be: WindowsName:x:1001:100:::: Also changed UID to 1001 to get past any special account/UID problems... .maphosts does exist in Windows2003R2, in c:\windows\msnfs, it now has a single entry of +, meaning anything can access mapping services. From Windows2003R2 server running NFS server.... D:\NFSdata>showmount -e localhost Exports list on localhost: /nfsdata All Machines So the NFS export is there OK D:\NFSdata>showmount -a localhost All mount points on localhost: 192.168.100.205 : D:\NFSdata <- VMS client 192.168.100.58 : D:\NFSdata <- Solaris 10 client 192.168.100.61 : D:\NFSdata <- SuSE client Solaris 10 and SuSE client work right out of the box, so the windows mapping must be OK on the windows side - the Solaris and SuSE boxen are accessing anonymously, which VMS can't/won't From VMS $ tcpip sho proxy/full VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name VMSusername OND 1001 100 * Mount statement from VMS is: $ tcpip mou dnfs1: data1 /host="x.y.z" /system /structure=5 /noadf /path="/nfsdata"/uid=1001/gid=100/user=VMSusername %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] $ tcpip sho mou/fu _DNFS1:[000000] mounted x.y.z:/nfsdata Transport TCPIP-UDP Writing Enabled Read/write size 8192/8192 Write conversion Enabled RPC timeout 0 00:00:01.00 ADF usage NOUSE,NOUPDATE,NOCREATE RPC retry limit 4 Fileids Unique Attribute time 0 00:00:15.00 Server type UNIX Directory time 0 00:00:30.00 Advisory Locking Disabled Cache Validation MODIFY TIME Default user [VMSusername] Superuser No Default UID,GID 1001,100 $ dir dnfs1:[000000] %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation So.......any other suggestions?? I really do appreciate all the mind-power going into this, but something on the VMS side is just weird.....but what? The mounting is fine, the mapping seems broken - but the password file is simple, the .maphosts allows anything and their is only a single proxy entry on the VMS side. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:38:23 +0100 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: "Gremlin" wrote in message news:13pred3ep0mfn5e@corp.supernews.com... > From VMS > > $ tcpip sho proxy/full > > VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name > > VMSusername OND 1001 100 * > > Mount statement from VMS is: > > $ tcpip mou dnfs1: data1 /host="x.y.z" /system /structure=5 > /noadf /path="/nfsdata"/uid=1001/gid=100/user=VMSusername > %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] > Discard /UID /GID parameters from mount for start. There can be problems with * in proxy. Try with hostname and put hostname also in local tcpip database. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:40:36 +0100 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: "Gremlin" wrote in message news:13pred3ep0mfn5e@corp.supernews.com... > > From VMS > > $ tcpip sho proxy/full > > VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name > > VMSusername OND 1001 100 * > ... > $ dir dnfs1:[000000] > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input > -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation > and be logged as VMSusername when trying access. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:57:47 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <479dc3bb$0$15737$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Gremlin wrote: > $ tcpip mou dnfs1: data1 /host="x.y.z" /system /structure=5 > /noadf /path="/nfsdata"/uid=1001/gid=100/user=VMSusername > %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] you need to specify /SERVER=UNIX for the /structure=5 to be effective. But this isn't related to your cuirrent problem. > $ dir dnfs1:[000000] > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input > -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation Which username is being used to do the mount, and which username is used to do the DIR ? You would need outgoing proxies for both. You might also want do do a SHOW DEV DNFSx: /FULL Mine gives: > show dev dnfs1/full > > Disk DNFS1: (CHAIN), device type Foreign disk type 7, is online, mounted, file- > oriented device, shareable, accessed via DFS or NFS. > > Error count 0 Operations completed 13852 > Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] > Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPL > Reference count 1 Default buffer size 512 > Total blocks 38835000 Sectors per track 0 > Total cylinders 0 Tracks per cylinder 0 > Allocation class 11 > > Volume label "BRAKES$/" Relative volume number 0 > Cluster size 0 Transaction count 1 > Free blocks unknown Maximum files allowed 0 > Extend quantity 0 Mount count 1 > Mount status System ACP process name "DNFS1ACP" > > Volume Status: ODS-5, access dates enabled. Remember that MOUNT deals with the MOUNTD deamon at the other end, whereas the DIR deals with the NFS deamon. Does Windows offer any tools to monitor the NFS mounting ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:59:05 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13prgsadghden32@corp.supernews.com> Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > "Gremlin" wrote in message > news:13pred3ep0mfn5e@corp.supernews.com... >> From VMS >> >> $ tcpip sho proxy/full >> >> VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name >> >> VMSusername OND 1001 100 * >> > ... >> $ dir dnfs1:[000000] >> %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input >> -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation >> > > and be logged as VMSusername when trying access. > > Best, Gorazd > > OK, so now... $ tcpip sho proxy/full VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name VMSusername OND 1001 100 WindowsHost Logged in as VMSusername, which has lots of privs including sysprv etc. Same problem..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:26:46 +0100 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: "Gremlin" wrote in message news:13prgsadghden32@corp.supernews.com... > Gorazd Kikelj wrote: >> "Gremlin" wrote in message >> news:13pred3ep0mfn5e@corp.supernews.com... >>> From VMS >>> > > OK, so now... > $ tcpip sho proxy/full > > VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name > > VMSusername OND 1001 100 WindowsHost > > Logged in as VMSusername, which has lots of privs including sysprv etc. > > Same problem..... > NFS server reject the connection. Can you get some TCPIP traces to see, what UID/GID you are getting on windows side. Problem is on Windows side. No VMS privs will help with that :-( Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:30:00 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: In article <479c2826$0$16190$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > Consider stock exchanges: HP owns both Tandem and VMS. With OMX' future > in question, HP will be tempted to move VMS based exchanges to Tandem. Why? You seem to be assuming that exchange running VMS = OMX. This is not necessarily true. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 08:20:41 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: PowerTerm 525 & eXcursion Message-ID: <9990207c-8c7c-4a68-b19a-8b76174cf8c3@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Jan 27, 1:47 pm, Marc Van Dyck wrote: > Is there a Vista-compatible version of those two softwares > available somewhere ? What is the vista compatibility status > of the versions distributed on the OpenVMS consolidated > distribution CDs ? > > Thanks in advance, > > -- > Marc Van Dyck Powerterm is sold by Ericom Software (http://www.ericom.com). PT525 was a licensed version that DEC provided with Pathworks back in the day. I don't know if there's any upgrade path from PT525 or if you have to buy a current version outright, but I'm certain they have a Vista compatible release by now. Powerterm Interconnect is the one we sell to customers when they downgrade from VT terminals to wintel boxes, and it works just fine once the users get used to the function- key-deficient PC keyboard. Sorry, no info on EXcursion. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:08:12 +0100 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: <479dd3bc$0$85794$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Ok, I took a quick look. TCPIP does not honour the normal VMS mechanisms in place to mark interest in an object. I can easily protect against a VMS dismount by incrementing the reference count of the dnfs device, but I can still do a tcpip dismount which quite happy ignores the reference count. I will look into this later and make sure it works properly in the next version of LD. The good thing is that if you dismount the DNFS device everything will keep working until you disconnect the ld device. And you CAN disconnect it if you're in such a situation by adding /ABORT to the LD DISCONNECT command. This will clear things up. Jur. healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> wrote: >> > $1$LDA2: (MONK) Online 0 >> > $1$LDA3: (MONK) Mounted 0 USER2 1611232 1 >> > 1 >> > $ LD CREATE DNFS2:[TEST]CDROM2.DSK/SIZE=921600 >> > $ LD CONNECT dnfs2:[test]CDROM2.DSK LDA2: >> > %LD-F-DUPUNIT, Duplicate unitnumber > >> LDA2 is still connected to a file. which one? Do a LD SHOW/ALL to get the info. > > $ LD SHOW/ALL > %LD-I-CONNECTED, Connected _$1$LDA1: to DNFS2:[TEST]CDROM.DSK;1 > %LD-F-DETECTEDERR, Detected fatal error > -SYSTEM-F-DEVNOTMOUNT, device is not mounted > > This is because I accidentally unmounted the NFS drive. Even remounting the > NFS drive won't let the file be accessed. Is there a way to kill LD and > restart it? I looked but wasn't able to find anything on that. > > Zane > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:02:48 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Hubbard Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: <83405039-54b9-4b95-9fbb-4f755d1deda5@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com> I've seen commodity external disk drives that connect to the host PC using the LAN. Out of curiosity, what network protocol do these generally use? NetBIOS, iSCSI or something like Z-SAN? Or is it pretty much the case that none dominate there, different manufacturers use different protocols? At least some of them seem to be largely plug-and-play. Not that I expect VMS to be able to ever use them. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.056 ************************