INFO-VAX Wed, 05 Mar 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 129 Contents: Re: Buying disks for DS10s Re: Can a MicroVAX 3100 run on 208V? Re: Can a MicroVAX 3100 run on 208V? Re: Can a MicroVAX 3100 run on 208V? Re: DCPS downloadable? Re: Noob File-Transfer (License to .com) Question Re: Question about DFU Re: SCSI bus Termination with KZPBA-CB controllers Re: SCSI bus Termination with KZPBA-CB controllers Re: SCSI bus Termination with KZPBA-CB controllers Solved: Wide drives on VAXstation 4000-60 Re: Suggestions for Bootcamp talks? TCPIP Services, NFS and text files comments. VMS advertising ! Re: VMS advertising ! Re: VMS advertising ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:45:56 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: Buying disks for DS10s Message-ID: Well we have DEGXA-TA Copper Gigabit for Alpha on sale for $299 Is that fair enough / David dturner@islandco.com "yyyc186" wrote in message news:abb7a155-a94a-4969-bb62-0de3b5fd6df1@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 29, 10:25 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: >> yyyc186 wrote: >> > On Feb 27, 12:56 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" >> > wrote: >> >> >>yyyc186 wrote: >> >> >>>Here is a much better question: >> >> >>>Has anyone tried any of those 2TB network enclosures you see being >> >>>sold at places like Microcenter? They claim to have a Gigabit >> >>>interface. I was wondering if they could be made to play with a DS10 >> >>>running a hobbiest license. I don't mind leaving the boot disk on the >> >>>DS10, but was thinking it would make getting 2TB of storage worth >> >>>while if I could spread it across many machines. >> >> > I only have a passing interest in this. My Alpha is currently powered >> > off. Other than sending out an email when the SOA book is finally >> > printed, I don't have plans to turn it back on. If HP hadn't >> > completely and officially abandoned OpenVMS, I might have followed >> > through in helping to port PostGreSQL to OpenVMS so we could have a >> > REAL database which was OpenSource on the platform. (MySQL is >> > OpenSource, but not a REAL database. The InnoDB it actually uses is >> > now owned by Oracle and Oracle will be squeezing that orange shortly.) >> >> > The 2TB boxes interest me only because I could share disk space >> > between my Ubuntu workstation, Ubuntu notebook, and Alpha. I was >> > hoping to avoid setting up yet another server to be a file server. I >> > could have left Netware running if I wanted to do that. Then again, >> > this only works if there is a reasonably cheap GigaBit card for the >> > DS10 and if I upgrade my internal office network to GigaBit. >> >> Please be a little more careful with your attributions and/or trimming!! >> I did not write ANY of the above text! >> >> Richard B. Gilbert > > Sorry, I nuked a bit too much trying to be polite and note quote the > entire thing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:22:43 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: Can a MicroVAX 3100 run on 208V? Message-ID: <87faf5b3-19da-4921-b675-498b8bc47752@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 4, 9:54 am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <47CCA492.9020...@comcast.net>, > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > > > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> In article <47CC6227.4020...@comcast.net>, > >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > >>>AEF wrote: > > >>>>On Mar 3, 1:51 pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > >>>>wrote: > > >>>>>AEF writes: > > >>>>>>Our new data center will have 208 Volt power. Can my MicroVAX systems > >>>>>>run on that? The specs in the manual say 100 - 120 V ac or 220 V to > >>>>>>240 V ac. The label on the power supply also says that. But I'm told > >>>>>>that 208 V will work fine. Is that right? If not, what can I do? > > >>>>>If this is a standard US 3 phase system, you'll have the usual 120 volts > >>>>>between any line and the neutral, and 208 volts between any two lines. > >>>>>Just hook the Microvax to a line-neutral circuit. In other words, to an > >>>>>ordinary electrical outlet. > > >>>>The MicroVAX systems are going in the data center. There won't be any > >>>>ordinary outlets there. > > >>>Sounds like a very strange datacenter to me! Sure, there may be a few > >>>big boxes that suck up three phase power and the air conditioning may > >>>need it as well but a LOT of equipment is designed for and requires > >>>110-120 VAC. Some equipment can "auto-sense" what voltage is present > >>>and do the right thing but don't count on it unless the instructions say > >>>so explicitly!!!!!! > > >> Sounds like real poor planning to me. Shouldn't they have figured out > >> everything that was going to be going into the data center and then > >> arranged for where it all would be placed and then ensured that all > >> the necessary power was in place where it was going to be needed? I > >> am not used to the "throw everything in the air and where it lands > >> is where it runs" method of planning. > > >> bill > > > IF you are building and equipping a NEW data center, you do that careful > > planning. As that data center ages and new equipment replaces old, you > > may find that your planning had a few gaps. I've seen IBM disk drives > > that occupied a double width cabinet and had something like a five horse > > power electric motor to spin it! Mind you, this was back in 1998/99 and > > the equipment in question was antique even then! (I noticed this stuff > > when it was being hauled away as scrap.) I could fit more storage in my > > shirt pocket than two or three of those drives represented. The power > > connections required by that antique were incompatible with my RZ26 and > > RZ28 drives or even the requirements of the shelves I installed them in! > > This is, of course, true. The power requirements for a PDP-11 > running racks of RA disk drives are considerably different from > the power requirements for the Intel based servers running SCSI > or SATA disk drives that have replaced most of them. But AEF > was talking about someone building a new datacenter today and > not including any 110v outlets. This is either a mistake on his > part and they are there or this is one of the poorest designed > datacenters ever built. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Well, I stand corrected. I found out since my OP that there will be some 110 outlets, but they lack "diversity", but I'm not concerned with that. The live systems will all be in London and HK by the time of the move and my systems here in NYC will be DR, monitoring, and archiving. So I'm not that concerned and I can't recall ever experiencing a power problem or even hearing about one that was somehow saved by "diversity". But only a small number of 110's will be available and they will be limited to every third cab. So I think I'll do all right. (I did post this 110 correction in this thread already, so I guessed you missed it -- no biggie.) I really wish someone who's actually tried to do this or who knows for sure otherhow what the answer is. I called HP today (I don't have VAX support with them but I have VMS and TLZ support, and I was urged to ask, so I thought why not?) and I haven't gotten a definitive answer. The guy went and did some research and sent me an email with the same specs I already had. Oh well. When moving day comes, I'll try it on a model 80 (of which we have too many) and see what happens! Thanks everyone for your help! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:39:15 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Can a MicroVAX 3100 run on 208V? Message-ID: <47cdc210$0$25417$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > or SATA disk drives that have replaced most of them. But AEF > was talking about someone building a new datacenter today and > not including any 110v outlets. This is either a mistake on his > part and they are there or this is one of the poorest designed > datacenters ever built. My take, based on what I read, was that Mr AEF's VAXens are to be located in a rack which only has 208V supply. As opposed to the whole data centre not having a single 110V outlet. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 00:21:40 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Can a MicroVAX 3100 run on 208V? Message-ID: JF Mezei writes: >Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> or SATA disk drives that have replaced most of them. But AEF >> was talking about someone building a new datacenter today and >> not including any 110v outlets. This is either a mistake on his >> part and they are there or this is one of the poorest designed >> datacenters ever built. >My take, based on what I read, was that Mr AEF's VAXens are to be >located in a rack which only has 208V supply. As opposed to the whole >data centre not having a single 110V outlet. Most likely, most racks in the datacenter will have a 2U outlet module in the lowest level of each rack. It will consist of a thick cord and plug, several standard 120V outlets in a rack mountable box, and nothing else (other than perhaps a switch or circuit breaker). Think of an industrial version of a regular power strip. The cord and plug could be a L5-30 120V 30A twistlock, a L14-30 120/208V 30A twistlock, or L21-30 120/208V 30A three phase twistlock. These will use 1, 2 or 3 of the available 3 phases respectively, and if more than one, the 120V outlets will be split equally among them. Given the insistence the data center is 208V, probably one of the latter 2 will be what's used. The original poster AEF may be moving already configured racks without these outlet modules into the new data center. In that case, he'll either have to either use an ordinary 120V outlet which he says exists in limited quantity, add one of the outlet modules mentioned, or "steal" the power from an adjacent cab (plugging into its outlet module). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:36:52 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DCPS downloadable? Message-ID: <47cdc181$0$25417$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> If Someone has the 2.6 DCPS kit and willing to send me a copy privately, I would be more than happy to very quietly let others have it below the radar and under the table. (ok, I'd have to direct FTP requests to the alpha that is under a table for this to be true :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:27:38 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: Noob File-Transfer (License to .com) Question Message-ID: <55228198-3029-44b6-a2df-21cbb1821621@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Mar 2, 7:57 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:30:56 -0800, Ralf Folkerts > > > > wrote: > > Steven M. Schweda schrieb: > > > Hi Steven, > > > [...] > >> It'd probably be easier to put the UCX PAK in manually (and get TCPIP > >> (the new name) configured) than it would be to do all the DIRE /FULL > >> and/or DUMP /BYTE tasks to see what happened to the useful bytes, and > >> then do the CONVERT and/or SET FILE /ATTRIBUTES tasks to straighten them > >> out again. > > > thanks for that hint! I'll give it a try. > > > One more question: Once TCP/IP is up and running, can I painles transfer > > the License-File and expect it to be of a valid Commandprocedure-File? > > Or would I still have to perform some kind of conversion? > > > Cheers, > > _ralf_ > > The following script is your friend if you are transferring files through > other systems like windowsftp://kednos.com/pub/reset_backup_saveset_attributes.txt > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com Just as a related aside: TCPware lets you to FTP get and put with /RECORD=32256. If you use that both ways transferring a VMS BACKUP save set to and from a non- VMS system, the record length of 32256 bytes will be preserved and the save set should be usable immediately after the transfer completes. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:38:33 -0800 From: Fred Bach Subject: Re: Question about DFU Message-ID: I thought he was talking about a different DFU than the one on the Freeware CD and I wanted to check it out. .. fred bach .. Jim Mehlhop wrote: > Fred Bach wrote: >> >> Does this mean that DFU for OpenVMS is available from you? >> Are you currently supporting it? What would be your costs? >> >> Thanks.... >> >> . fred bach music at triumf dot c a >> > > Since it is on the FREEware cd I will leave it up to you to figure out > the cost. :-) > >>>> >>>> I can understand its current status, along with the LDRIVER being >>>> maintained by volunteers as freeware. (and many thanks are owed to Jur >>>> for that). >>>> >>>> But before all the staff cuts and downsizing, was there some >>>> technical/political/whatever reason that prevented DFU from being >>>> included as part of VMS OS distribution ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:15:43 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: SCSI bus Termination with KZPBA-CB controllers Message-ID: <37153cc7-6eff-4001-92e9-74a3481402d2@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 4, 12:26 pm, BHall wrote: > On Mar 4, 11:40 am, Rich Jordan wrote: > > > > > We're retrofitting some differential (HVD) SCSI gear into a two node > > SCSI cluster using KZPBA-CB controllers. The old setup used the 'Y' > > cable connectors for the Alpha hookups, one leg going to the storage > > equipment, the other terminated. The Alphas are at each end of the > > bus with storage in between. > > > The back side of this config will have a difficult time fitting with > > those bulky connectors. Does anyone know if we can just hook the > > storage cables directly to the KZPBA-CB controllers, with the console > > setting for termination on those cards enabled? Does this provide > > proper bus termination? I know we will lose the ability to physically > > remove a node from the bus without disrupting the bus if the 'Y' > > cables are removed. > > > I've been through the SCSI-cluster section of the cluster manual > > twice; if its there I'm missing it. There is an implication that the > > 'Y' cables were optional with KZPSAs but no equivalent info WRT the > > KZPBAs. > > > Thanks > > > Rich > > CCS > > Rich, > > Yes you can remove the y-cables from your configuration. However, the > KZPBA-CB has a set of eight terminator resistors (RM1 - RM8) that are > installed or removed to control scsi bus termination. The single > ended scsi KZPBA-CA does not have removable resistors and it's bus > termination can be "controlled" using the SRM variables. > > If these KZPBA-CBs are in use now with the externally terminated y- > cables, you will have to find the terminator resistors that were > removed when they were installed. Replace the terminator resistors > and remove the y-cables and external terminators. > > The ideal replacement for the y-cables and external bus termination is > the scsi hub, either the DWZZH-03 or DWZZH-05. > > Bill Thanks, Richard and Bill These are used KZPBA units with no docs; I have the UWSE card docs but not the differential ones. The systems came preconfigured. I will open them up to see what's there but I'd expect the resistors are not present because the vendor was told the hookups would be with 'Y' cables, so I'll have to try and get some from them. Thanks! Rich ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:48:11 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: SCSI bus Termination with KZPBA-CB controllers Message-ID: Either way, I don't think that is a "supported" configuration. Do those Y cables use "that" much space? The H879-AA terminators are not that bulky. dt "Rich Jordan" wrote in message news:37153cc7-6eff-4001-92e9-74a3481402d2@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On Mar 4, 12:26 pm, BHall wrote: >> On Mar 4, 11:40 am, Rich Jordan wrote: >> >> >> >> > We're retrofitting some differential (HVD) SCSI gear into a two node >> > SCSI cluster using KZPBA-CB controllers. The old setup used the 'Y' >> > cable connectors for the Alpha hookups, one leg going to the storage >> > equipment, the other terminated. The Alphas are at each end of the >> > bus with storage in between. >> >> > The back side of this config will have a difficult time fitting with >> > those bulky connectors. Does anyone know if we can just hook the >> > storage cables directly to the KZPBA-CB controllers, with the console >> > setting for termination on those cards enabled? Does this provide >> > proper bus termination? I know we will lose the ability to physically >> > remove a node from the bus without disrupting the bus if the 'Y' >> > cables are removed. >> >> > I've been through the SCSI-cluster section of the cluster manual >> > twice; if its there I'm missing it. There is an implication that the >> > 'Y' cables were optional with KZPSAs but no equivalent info WRT the >> > KZPBAs. >> >> > Thanks >> >> > Rich >> > CCS >> >> Rich, >> >> Yes you can remove the y-cables from your configuration. However, the >> KZPBA-CB has a set of eight terminator resistors (RM1 - RM8) that are >> installed or removed to control scsi bus termination. The single >> ended scsi KZPBA-CA does not have removable resistors and it's bus >> termination can be "controlled" using the SRM variables. >> >> If these KZPBA-CBs are in use now with the externally terminated y- >> cables, you will have to find the terminator resistors that were >> removed when they were installed. Replace the terminator resistors >> and remove the y-cables and external terminators. >> >> The ideal replacement for the y-cables and external bus termination is >> the scsi hub, either the DWZZH-03 or DWZZH-05. >> >> Bill > > Thanks, Richard and Bill > These are used KZPBA units with no docs; I have the UWSE card > docs but not the differential ones. The systems came preconfigured. > I will open them up to see what's there but I'd expect the resistors > are not present because the vendor was told the hookups would be with > 'Y' cables, so I'll have to try and get some from them. > > Thanks! > > Rich ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:57:59 -0600 From: Chris Scheers Subject: Re: SCSI bus Termination with KZPBA-CB controllers Message-ID: <636k25F26p6guU1@mid.individual.net> Rich Jordan wrote: > We're retrofitting some differential (HVD) SCSI gear into a two node > SCSI cluster using KZPBA-CB controllers. The old setup used the 'Y' > cable connectors for the Alpha hookups, one leg going to the storage > equipment, the other terminated. The Alphas are at each end of the > bus with storage in between. > > The back side of this config will have a difficult time fitting with > those bulky connectors. Does anyone know if we can just hook the > storage cables directly to the KZPBA-CB controllers, with the console > setting for termination on those cards enabled? Does this provide > proper bus termination? I know we will lose the ability to physically > remove a node from the bus without disrupting the bus if the 'Y' > cables are removed. If you enable termination on the cards, yes. I don't know if the termination is still valid if the power to the box is off. Remember that the point of the "Y" cables is to enable you to disconnect one system or the other for maintenance without disrupting the SCSI bus. If you eliminate the "Y" cables and have to disconnect a machine, you will need to take the other one down, too. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com Fax: 817-237-3074 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:04:02 -0600 From: Chris Scheers Subject: Solved: Wide drives on VAXstation 4000-60 Message-ID: <636kdgF26p6guU2@mid.individual.net> Chris Scheers wrote: > I have a need to set up a VAX test environment with 4GB drives. I have > a VAXstation 4000-60 available as the test bed. Unfortunately, I do not > have narrow RZ29 drives. > > I do have several RZ29B-VWs available. > > I know I can't use RZ29B-VWs in a BA350. (I tried it anyways, it still > doesn't work.) > > I set up a BA356 with a BA35X-MG (8 bit) card. (There are previous > usenet reports of this working with RZ29B-VWs and a MicroVAX 3100/98.) > > With the BA35X-MG card, the VAXstation 4000-60 can still only see narrow > drives in the BA356. It does not see the RZ29B-VWs, even if one of > these is the only drive in the chassis. > > The BA356 appears to be terminated correctly. It has a 16 bit > terminator behind slot 1 and no card behind slot 7. > > Can anyone provide a suggestion on how to get this to work? Is there > some switch setting I am missing? It turns out that it is necessary to have the "jumper" installed behind slot 6 (not slot 7). I had thought that in single bus mode, the jumper was just parked and wasn't actually used. In fact, narrow devices seem to work fine without the jumper. After adding the jumper, a mix of wide and narrow devices in the shelf all communicate properly with the VAXstation 4000-60. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com Fax: 817-237-3074 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:24:06 -0600 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Suggestions for Bootcamp talks? Message-ID: In article , John Reagan wrote: > Greetings Bootcamp Attendees and Potential Attendees: > > Sue has asked me for presentations for this years Bootcamp. What do you > folks want to hear about in the compiler, linker, Calling Standard, > exception handling areas. I have a bunch of previous talks I can give > again for the large number of first time attendees or I can whip up > something new for you old timers. It's unlikely I'll be able to make it, but GNV status, progress, and futures would be interesting. If it's interesting to me, maybe it will be interesting to people who are attending. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:48:54 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: TCPIP Services, NFS and text files comments. Message-ID: <47cdc42c$0$10306$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Alpha VMS 8.3, TCPIP Services 5.6 I have a few comments about the BFS interoperability. This is with OS-X (aka: netBSD Unix). As a NFS server, VMS *tries* to convert VMS text files to Unix text files on the fly. However, this is NOT reliable. Sometimes the conversion stops midway in the file and the remainer is fed "raw" (aka: the 2 byte record length followed by the record). In most cases, it appears that the end of file is not properly handled and on the MAC, there is "garbage" following the actual end of file. (so when editing a .C program with TextEdit for instance, the bottom of the program is filled with junk). So, FTP in text mode is still the safest bet to move native VMS files to another platform. With VMS as a client, it appears that it does not even attempt to do any conversion when doing a copy of a local VMS file to a disk that exists on another machine. In a binary form, NFS seems to work OK, but I have not done extensive testing to ensure the files go to and from platforms intact. I realise that since I live in a different universe where things are ever so slightly different, those comments may not apply to people in the real world. And I realise that the few VMS engineers left do not look at c.o.v. so they will never see this feedback. Their loss. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:06:07 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: <47cdc833$0$10255$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Would you believe some mainstream advertising for VMS ? Holy mother of God, it has happened ! http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080304/0370310.html Press Release VMS Processes One Millionth Unpaid Parking Violation for the U.S. Auto Rental Industry Tuesday March 4, 11:44 am ET ------------------------------ Date: 04 Mar 2008 23:22:42 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: <47cdd9c2$0$5622$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <47cdc833$0$10255$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >Would you believe some mainstream advertising for VMS ? Holy mother of >God, it has happened ! > >http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080304/0370310.html > >Press Release > >VMS Processes One Millionth Unpaid Parking Violation for the U.S. Auto >Rental Industry >Tuesday March 4, 11:44 am ET Does VMS use VMS to process these violations? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:45:11 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: <47cdfb85$0$31313$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > Does VMS use VMS to process these violations? If there was a VMS management eager to grow sales instead of avoid the next round of HP layoffs, they could donate VMS machines/licences to this VMS company. Then, with this company running our VMS, every bit of advertising they would make would benefit our VMS. And this would totally bypass the advertising ban that seems to be in place at HP against our VMS. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.129 ************************