INFO-VAX Sat, 08 Mar 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 136 Contents: Re: Another Alpha turned off... Re: Burn a CD from XP that VMS will mount/read? Re: Can a MicroVAX 3100 run on 208V? RE: Long term archiving of VMS stuff Re: newgroup decline Re: newgroup decline Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS RE: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS RE: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: Updated GNV kits available Re: Updated GNV kits available RE: VMS advertising ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 18:42:59 GMT From: ChrisQuayle Subject: Re: Another Alpha turned off... Message-ID: Michael Kraemer wrote: > ChrisQuayle schrieb: > > >> I couldn't believe how fast it was initially and would still be >> competitive now, were it not for the fact that there's little support >> in open source for Tru64 and Alpha. Even Linux Alpha support is dying. > > > What do you miss ? > OTOH, a dead OS on a dead CPU won't attract developers in droves. Waht do I miss ? - The feeling of being part of something much bigger, the feeling of being on a winning team, the feeling of being associated with a company that valued technical excellence, risk taking and encouragement of innovation, as well as being a successfull business. While Compaq may be forgiven for not knowing what they had, there is no excuse, nor forgiveness for the subsequent sins of HP :-)... LCD tv anyone ?... Chris -- ---------------------- Greenfield Designs Ltd Electronic and Embedded System Design Oxford, England (44) 1865 750 681 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:36:11 -0600 From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) Subject: Re: Burn a CD from XP that VMS will mount/read? Message-ID: <3-CdnTj43tfWC0_anZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d@comcast.com> In article , Craig A. Berry wrote: >In article >, > bakermo@swbell.net wrote: > >> Is there a way to burn a CD on XP PRO that VMS 8.3 will mount/read? >> >> HP support told me to burn an image. I have done this with Nero with >> no luck. > >Beg, borrow, or steal any freeware CD burning utility you can get. >Nero has its own proprietary format that is useless to anything but >Nero. > >-- >Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Not true... Nero will create iso9660 standard images. Bill -- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome) pechter-at-gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:23:02 -0600 From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) Subject: Re: Can a MicroVAX 3100 run on 208V? Message-ID: <3-CdnTn43terDk_anZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d@comcast.com> In article <3054152c-eea7-4234-aefd-643c8608df45@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, AEF wrote: >Our new data center will have 208 Volt power. Can my MicroVAX systems >run on that? The specs in the manual say 100 - 120 V ac or 220 V to >240 V ac. The label on the power supply also says that. But I'm told >that 208 V will work fine. Is that right? If not, what can I do? > >Bonus question: Since when does computer equipment run on 208 Volts? > >Thanks! RP04...RP05...RP06... 8-) -- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome) pechter-at-gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:12:13 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Long term archiving of VMS stuff Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Berryman [mailto:mark@theberrymans.com] > Sent: March 5, 2008 2:29 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Long term archiving of VMS stuff > > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article <47c9ce15$0$10289$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > writes: > >> Main, Kerry wrote: > >> > >>> A company selling that many copies per month also does not decide > to slash > >>> the cost of the product world wide in order to stimulate demand. > >> There are lots of issues with regards to Vista. Microsoft decided to > >> have a very stringent hardware requiremenent for it. Without it, > your > >> machine is essentially an XP machine because the Vista glitz is > disabled. > >> > >> Because of this, very few people are bothering with an upgrade of > their > >> existing machine. They will get Vista whenever they upgrade their > PC. > >> > >> As such, Microsoft isn't seeing much demand for upgrades. And its > >> revenue base is from the Winodws tax charged to wintel makers for > just > >> about every wintel box built. This is assured revenu no matter how > >> good/bad windows is, it is simply relative to the health of the PC > industry. > >> > >> Note that the recent price cut announcement only deals with > *certain* > >> versions of the shrinkwrapped Windows product. It does not cover the > >> price charged by Microsoft to wintel manufacturer. > >> > >> While many rejoice at any bad news related to Microsoft, those news > >> cover only a small portion of the Windows revenus since nobody has > >> mentioned bad news with regards to the window tax on newbuilt Witel > boxes. > > > > This is one of the reasons that I'm reluctant to buy new intel based > Macs. > > Am I or am I not paying Billzebub tax because a new Mac can run > Weendoze? > > Nobody in the Apple camp has been able to clarify this. > > > > The tax in question is a tactic used by Microsoft where they > essentially > tell the PC vendor that they must sell a Windows license for very PC > they sell or Microsoft will not grant them the license discount rate > they need in order to be able to sell Windows systems competitively. > Since Apple is not a Windows software reseller, they are not subject to > this particular strong-arm tactic and are able to sell Intel product > without paying a tax to Redmond. (No, Office for Mac doesn't count - > the terms for that particular deal were spelled out when Apple settled > its lawsuit with Microsoft.) > > Mark Berryman Fwiw, in the Digital days, the Alpha-Windows WS platform's were under the same "agreement" (and note parenthesis on the term agreement). It was one Of the drivers for the "white" box Alphas that could only run Windows. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. Regards ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:07:25 +0100 From: "H Vlems" Subject: Re: newgroup decline Message-ID: <47d2678b$0$2900$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl> "Keith Parris" schreef in bericht news:fqhdnm$4p2$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > JF Mezei wrote: >> But now that there is very little invokvement from VMS engineering, and >> very few new features in the pipeline, there isn't much to discuss. > > You apparently haven't been reading the Roadmap or the New Features > manuals lately. There's still a strong stream of new releases and new > features: consider support for IP as a native OpenVMS cluster > interconnect, for example. > > There is a high level of activity in the OpenVMS IT Resource Center > Forums, and I suspect much of the volume of technical discussions has > moved from here to there. I must have missed that: what is the OpenVMS IT Resource Center Forum? And how do I get access to it? Hans ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 09:30:11 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: newgroup decline Message-ID: <08030809301176_2020557A@antinode.org> From: "H Vlems" > I must have missed that: what is the OpenVMS IT Resource Center Forum? > And how do I get access to it? http://forums.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/home.do http://forums.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=288 Get ready for one of the least reliable, most troublesome Web sites on the planet. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 03:36:28 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: <7d72e66f-ba9e-4ac4-a628-42b6fc0582f0@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 7, 8:53=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Last week, I ported from VMS to OS-X a small C program that generates > lottery numbers (and postscript which then puts the squares in the right > locations on the forms). > > Turns out that the Apple random number generator is far better than VMS' > because on the first time I used the Mac generated numbers, I won a > whopping $10 at the lottery. Statistically, my program on a MAC is 100% > succesful at generating a winning number, whereas on VMS it rarely > generated a winning number (and it was just a free ticket :=3D( > > So there you go, undeniable proof that Macintosh is better than VMS. > > :-) :-) :-) :-) Now everyone knows that MAC OS-X is based upon BSD UNIX so can we assume that you've gone over to the dark side? Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:28:55 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: <47d2872b$0$25380$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Neil Rieck wrote: > Now everyone knows that MAC OS-X is based upon BSD UNIX so can we > assume that you've gone over to the dark side? You call it the "dark side". I call it the "bright side". The lights are shining far brighter on OS-X than they are on VMS. There is plenty of marketing, growth, applications and more importatly, a vendor who is clearly committed to it. HP sent a very very very clear signal last year when it got Cerner to abandon VMS. And consider that much of the TCPIP stack on VMS comes from Unix (all those utilities like nslookup, dig etc). And consider that they no longer really case about security since the allowed software such as IMAP to come out without intrusion detection. I was extremely loyal to VMS for years, and really hoped HP would come to its senses and bring VMS back to life. Loyalty in this case only hurts the loyal person since the vendor doesn't give one iota. In fact, it appears HP doesn't appreciate those who are loyal to VMS when you look at their attitude towrads comp.os.vms Just because I am moving to OS-X at a leasurely pace doesn't mean that I feel it is an "upgrade". On VMS, I found myself trying to fight to live "modern". The fact that MAIL isn't being developped anymore mean that receiving binary attachements was always time consuming. Couldn,t quite work with PDF documents (just because XPDF could open them doesn'T mean that you could be productive with it) etc etc etc. At one point, you realise it isn't worth fighting to remain on VMS, especially when the owner isn't lifting a finger to help VMS. And these conversions are not productive. You spend your time re-inventing the wheel instead of improving it. I need to learn Apache and test configs so I can move the web site over, instead of spending time to improve the web site. I need to learn those newfangled scripting languages instead of writing DCL or ALLIN1 scripts to provide dynamic web content. etc etc etc. But in the long term, once I am proficient on Unix, I will have marketable skills, and because I will be able to use modern tools, I will have access to modern open source stuff and will no longer have to fight to get stuff to run on VMS. ------------------------------ Date: 08 Mar 2008 13:02:16 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: <47d28e58$0$15191$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <7d72e66f-ba9e-4ac4-a628-42b6fc0582f0@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Neil Rieck writes: >On Mar 7, 8:53=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> Last week, I ported from VMS to OS-X a small C program that generates >> lottery numbers (and postscript which then puts the squares in the right >> locations on the forms). >> >> Turns out that the Apple random number generator is far better than VMS' >> because on the first time I used the Mac generated numbers, I won a >> whopping $10 at the lottery. Statistically, my program on a MAC is 100% >> succesful at generating a winning number, whereas on VMS it rarely >> generated a winning number (and it was just a free ticket :=3D( >> >> So there you go, undeniable proof that Macintosh is better than VMS. >> >> :-) :-) :-) :-) > >Now everyone knows that MAC OS-X is based upon BSD UNIX so can we >assume that you've gone over to the dark side? Nah, it's just not well lit! Mac OS X/BSD is the purgatory between VMS heaven and Micro$oft hell. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 08:16:53 -0500 From: "Dan Allen" Subject: RE: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: <001d01c8811e$ad320e80$1f3a0681@sdct.nist.gov> > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:29 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS > > Neil Rieck wrote: > > > Now everyone knows that MAC OS-X is based upon BSD UNIX so can we > > assume that you've gone over to the dark side? > > You call it the "dark side". I call it the "bright side". The > lights are shining far brighter on OS-X than they are on VMS. > There is plenty of marketing, growth, applications and more > importatly, a vendor who is clearly committed to it. > > HP sent a very very very clear signal last year when it got > Cerner to abandon VMS. > > And consider that much of the TCPIP stack on VMS comes from > Unix (all those utilities like nslookup, dig etc). And > consider that they no longer really case about security since > the allowed software such as IMAP to come out without > intrusion detection. > > I was extremely loyal to VMS for years, and really hoped HP > would come to its senses and bring VMS back to life. Loyalty > in this case only hurts the loyal person since the vendor > doesn't give one iota. In fact, it appears HP doesn't > appreciate those who are loyal to VMS when you look at their > attitude towrads comp.os.vms > > > Just because I am moving to OS-X at a leasurely pace doesn't > mean that I feel it is an "upgrade". > > On VMS, I found myself trying to fight to live "modern". The > fact that MAIL isn't being developped anymore mean that > receiving binary attachements was always time consuming. > Couldn,t quite work with PDF documents (just because XPDF > could open them doesn'T mean that you could be productive > with it) etc etc etc. > > At one point, you realise it isn't worth fighting to remain > on VMS, especially when the owner isn't lifting a finger to help VMS. > > And these conversions are not productive. You spend your time > re-inventing the wheel instead of improving it. I need to > learn Apache and test configs so I can move the web site > over, instead of spending time to improve the web site. I > need to learn those newfangled scripting languages instead of > writing DCL or ALLIN1 scripts to provide dynamic web content. > etc etc etc. > > But in the long term, once I am proficient on Unix, I will > have marketable skills, and because I will be able to use > modern tools, I will have access to modern open source stuff > and will no longer have to fight to get stuff to run on VMS. > Ahhh - open source! Ask me about how I like my current open source software project. Google for "documentation" on basic API's which exists only in mailing list exchanges and Wiki posts - AAAAARGHHHH! An amalgam of half a dozen Version 1.0.xxx open source packages all with nearly daily code updates. Ohh - I forgot - I can always read the source code..... But of course when I'm done the customer won't have to pay them nasty license and support fees. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:44:11 GMT From: Bob Harris Subject: Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: In article <7d72e66f-ba9e-4ac4-a628-42b6fc0582f0@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >, Neil Rieck wrote: > On Mar 7, 8:53 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > Last week, I ported from VMS to OS-X a small C program that generates > > lottery numbers (and postscript which then puts the squares in the right > > locations on the forms). > > > > Turns out that the Apple random number generator is far better than VMS' > > because on the first time I used the Mac generated numbers, I won a > > whopping $10 at the lottery. Statistically, my program on a MAC is 100% > > succesful at generating a winning number, whereas on VMS it rarely > > generated a winning number (and it was just a free ticket :=( > > > > So there you go, undeniable proof that Macintosh is better than VMS. > > > > :-) :-) :-) :-) > > Now everyone knows that MAC OS-X is based upon BSD UNIX so can we > assume that you've gone over to the dark side? It is also based on the Mach micro kernel Just Like Digital OFS/1, aka Digital UNIX, aka Compaq Tru64 UNIX, aka HP Tru64 UNIX. It is a Mach micro kernel, with FreeBSD layer on top (where as Tru64 UNIX has BSD with some System V components). Then on top of that are all the Apple GUI frameworks. Bob Harris Former Tru64 UNIX AdvFS developer > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: 08 Mar 2008 15:08:06 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: RE: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: <47d2abd6$0$15158$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <001d01c8811e$ad320e80$1f3a0681@sdct.nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" writes: >{...snip...} >Ahhh - open source! Ask me about how I like my current open source software >project. Google for "documentation" on basic API's which exists only in mailing >list exchanges and Wiki posts - AAAAARGHHHH! An amalgam of half a dozen Version >1.0.xxx open source packages all with nearly daily code updates. Ohh - I forgot >- I can always read the source code..... I'm struggling with an issue with a CMS. What documentation does exist is poor and it looks like a Micro$oft Weendoze for Morons book with nothing in it but screenshots of the pages. What? No concept of there being a problem? No troubleshooting guide? No actual documentation explaining the various content sections? Nope. I'm told, "Look at the source if you have a problem, the comments should guide you." What comment? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 03:42:35 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <914aa4e2-9b4a-4b72-be04-33e0d826953a@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Mar 5, 9:42=A0am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Feb 28, 9:37=A0pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > > > > > > ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > here is a glance of things to come if Hillary or Obama implement > > > their healthcare plan ... the bbc did not report it but a teen died > > > while waiting on an ambulance that was setting at the hospital > > > with a patient inside because the hospitals were full and did not > > > want to violate a government mandate of a 4 hour must treat law. > > > > Canada people coming here ... England people that have the money > > > flying to India to have surgery ... > > > > don't worry, those rich liberal Harvard grads will be able to afford > > > it while those they claim to want to help will be dying waiting for > > > an ambulance ... > > > > that what socialism does, it ruins a country ... > > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7249514.stm > > > (Relax, folks, Boob is just trying to up the post tallies for this year > > to stem the downward spiral of VMS. Maybe the "MI5" guy will help him > > out.)- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Hillary won ... her socialist healthcare system and these kind > of results like above are getting closer to becoming reality here ...- Hid= e quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - What is the alternative? On 60 Minutes last week they said that 47 million people in America don't have any health insurance. Then the interview some poor devils at a charity medical event near Knoxville who had health insurance through is employer but is came with a $500 deductable. If memory serves, it was Nixon who pushed through legistlation to allow HMOs to exist which led to the obscene profits and CEO pay packets etc. NSR ------------------------------ Date: 08 Mar 2008 12:58:39 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <47d28d7f$0$15191$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <47d1ef9e$0$31251$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >> Both of you are adding to the noise level without convincing anyone! > >If you are being flooded with surrious unwanted OPCOM messages, you need -------------------------------^^^^^^^^ Spurious? >to take some action and issue a REPLY/DISABLE to make them stop, or go >to the source and fix the problem that generates those messages. Try this: $ MCR NCL BLOCK EVENT DISPATCHER OUTBOUND STREAM comp.os.vms GLOBAL FILTER - ((Boob,ultradwc), All OT rabble rousing right-wing religious doggerel) :) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 05:33:29 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <02afa56e-b51a-47e8-a51b-001595576a6a@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Mar 7, 11:17=A0am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article , ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > > > >On Mar 7, 9:05=3DA0am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >> In article >om>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > >> >On Mar 6, 8:27=3D3DA0pm, JF Mezei wrot= e: > >> >> Bob, > > >> >> do you realise that people like you who use religious values/reasons= to=3D > > >> >> oppose certain topics are exactly the same as muslim extremists who = use=3D > > >> >> religious excuses to rebel against stuff they don't like (such as th= e U=3D > >SA)=3D3D > >> > ? > > >> >> It is interesting that the country that should understand religious > >> >> extremists the most (because of 9-11) should itself have so many > >> >> extremists and not only no realise it, but give those extremists > >> >> political voices and power. > > >> >I AM TIRED OF YOU EQUATING CHRISTIANS TO > >> >MUSLIM EXTREMISTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >> >Christians do not tie bombs to themselves and kill > >> >others because they will not believe ... > > >> I've never understood why a terrorist who sacrifices themselves when at= tac=3D > >king > >> their enemies should be considered any different than a terrorist who > >> just plants a bomb and walks away and therefore lives to plant further = bom=3D > >bs. > >> The IRA whose members were supposedly Christians didn't use suicide bom= bin=3D > >g > >> but they did force others to drive cars filled with explosives at Briti= sh > >> Army checkpoints by threatening their families > >> seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_bomb > >> ( So no they didn't tie bombs to themselves to kill others - they "tied= " b=3D > >ombs > >> to other innocent civilians and blew them up to kill others. > >> I'd regard that tactic as being far more dispicable that suicide bombin= g) > > >> It is also probably worth noting that some of the Japanese Kamikazi pil= ots=3D > > >> were Christian see > > >>http://www.martinrothonline.com/Christians&War/Christian_suicide_bomb...= > > >> David Webb > >> Security team leader > >> CCSS > >> Middlesex University > > >> >the apostles and all other TRUE Christians were put > >> >to death ... the last time I checked, it was Christians > >> >who were laying dead in the catacombs in Rome, not > >> >romans ...- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >wrong ... they were NOT Christians ... > > >true Christians know that only God has the right to > >kill, and that means suicide too, and if they do it is > >murder ... and you can add abortion to that too ... > > So throughout history most christians haven't really been christian ? > Catholic church - Inquisition killing heretics, witches etc > Christian countries fighting wars in the name of religion. > Most religious denominations fighting and indeed glorying in wars. > > The IRA members definitely considered themselves to be Catholic just as th= e > Loyalists considered themselves to be protestants. > > > > >just because someone says there are a Christian > >does not mean they are ... > > The same could be said about many who profess to be muslims. > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - those who kill in the name of God are NOT Christians ... God has very rarely given that authority to anyone outside of Himself, mainly the jews in certain circumstances ... most of the time, he sends the angel of death to handle that ... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 05:36:15 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <18148660-9705-4cc0-ad25-ab50272b2cd1@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 7, 1:15=A0pm, AEF wrote: > On Mar 7, 11:29 am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 7, 9:05 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > > > > In article , ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > > > >On Mar 6, 8:27=3DA0pm, JF Mezei wrote= : > > > >> Bob, > > > > >> do you realise that people like you who use religious values/reason= s to > > > >> oppose certain topics are exactly the same as muslim extremists who= use > > > >> religious excuses to rebel against stuff they don't like (such as t= he USA)=3D > > > > ? > > > > >> It is interesting that the country that should understand religious= > > > >> extremists the most (because of 9-11) should itself have so many > > > >> extremists and not only no realise it, but give those extremists > > > >> political voices and power. > > > > >I AM TIRED OF YOU EQUATING CHRISTIANS TO > > > >MUSLIM EXTREMISTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > >Christians do not tie bombs to themselves and kill > > > >others because they will not believe ... > > > > I've never understood why a terrorist who sacrifices themselves when a= ttacking > > > their enemies should be considered any different than a terrorist who > > > just plants a bomb and walks away and therefore lives to plant further= bombs. > > > The IRA whose members were supposedly Christians didn't use suicide bo= mbing > > > but they did force others to drive cars filled with explosives at Brit= ish > > > Army checkpoints by threatening their families > > > seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_bomb > > > ( So no they didn't tie bombs to themselves to kill others - they "tie= d" bombs > > > to other innocent civilians and blew them up to kill others. > > > I'd regard that tactic as being far more dispicable that suicide bombi= ng) > > > > It is also probably worth noting that some of the Japanese Kamikazi pi= lots > > > were Christian see > > > >http://www.martinrothonline.com/Christians&War/Christian_suicide_bomb..= . > > > > David Webb > > > Security team leader > > > CCSS > > > Middlesex University > > > > >the apostles and all other TRUE Christians were put > > > >to death ... the last time I checked, it was Christians > > > >who were laying dead in the catacombs in Rome, not > > > >romans ...- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > wrong ... they were NOT Christians ... > > > true Christians know that only God has the right to > > kill, and that means suicide too, and if they do it is > > murder ... and you can add abortion to that too ... > > > just because someone says there are a Christian > > does not mean they are ... > > Some scientists favor creationism over evolution. These are not true > scientists. > > Just because someone says he is a scientist doesn't make it so. > > Bob, have you heard of the Crusades? At least one pope, Pope Alexander > II -- well, here's the quote from the Wikipedia Crusades article: > > "In 1063, Pope Alexander II [gave] his blessing to Iberian Christians > in their wars against the Muslims, granting both a papal standard (the > vexillum sancti Petri) and an indulgence to those who were killed in > battle." > > So I suppose at least one pope wasn't Christian? > > AEF > > AEF- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - the crusades were wrong ... God does not want anyone to be forced to repent and live for Him ... Jesus Christ did not go around forcing people to convert ... that has to be your choice ... YOU decide where you will spend eternity ... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 05:38:01 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: On Mar 7, 3:33=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > > I AM TIRED OF YOU EQUATING CHRISTIANS TO > > MUSLIM EXTREMISTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > Christians do not tie bombs to themselves and kill > > others because they will not believe ... > > Your rants in comp.os.vms are the milder equivalent of tying a bomb to > yourself and making it explode where it doesn't belong. You are trying > desperatly to attract attention to your beliefs and hoping to convince > others to join your jihads for pollution and to defent the USA > healthcare and use your bible to justify your positions on those issues. > > I didn't equate "christians" to "muslim extremists". I equated > "christian extremists" to "muslim extremists". no I am refuting yours ... you are like other liberals who do not want to debate anything ... you are right and everyone else is wrong and that is it ... well, the US has not become England and Canada yet ... there is still something called free speech in this country ... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 05:40:37 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <70915e85-f2e0-4049-85d7-62f42378276c@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 7, 4:02=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > > I guess I'm just not up to date on the terminology. =A0How does > > "socialism" differ from state ownership/control? > > Air Canada was a crown corporation. Its shares were owned by the > canadian government, but it operated as a corporation, with dividends > and all (if it made profits). =A0The canadian government, being the owner,= > would nominate its people onto the AC board. > > When the government sold its AC shares in the stock exchange, it stopped > being government owned. However, to the public and AC customers, it made > no difference, AC continued to sell tickets the same way, at the same > prices and continued to have the same irritating staff and complaints > about AC. > > When Canadair nearly went under, the canadian government bought all > shares and kept Canadair alive. It had unique product needed to fight > forest fires. It was also developping something new (the Challenger jet > aircraft). Eventually, it found a buyer (Bombardier) and Bombardier then > came in, cleaned it up and saw the potential to develop the challenger > into a regional jet (the CRJ). =A0Same thing happened to de-Haviland which= > remained government owned for quite some time, was then sold to Boeing > and Bombardier then bought it from Boeing after Boeing decided it wasn't > interested. > > This isn't about government using tax revenus to provide subsidized > services to citizens. It is about the government using its money to make > strategic investments to provide jobs and provide strategic services to > let the economy grow. ( in the case of Air Canada, it isn't very > different from a government building a highway and putting tolls on it > to get the highway to pay for itself). > > In the USA, "pork" is the USA's equivalent. Consider that when the > decided to retire the shuttle, the government didn't let NASA draw > totally new plans, it imposed requirements that certain plants/companies > (notably the one in the New Orleans area) continue to be used, so the > new design has been squewed to make use of certain shuttle technologies. > > Socialism is about the government providing equal services to everyone. > For instance, free schooling, subsidized university so it is very > affordable, free healthcare to everyone etc etc. > > Note that in the case of healthcare, it doesn't preclude private > clinics. It simply means that the private doctor will bill the > national/provincial insurance company for his services instead of > billing either the patient or some private insurance company. It also > means that it is the government that decides what is covered by the > health care plan and what isn't covered (eg: cosmetic/elective surgery > isn't covered). that is not govrnments jobs but the private sector ... unless of course you are a socialist government ... even china and russia have learned that capitalism is the best solution ... they are no longer socialists but now fachists ... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:37:42 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: In article <02afa56e-b51a-47e8-a51b-001595576a6a@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: >On Mar 7, 11:17=A0am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article om>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 9:05=3DA0am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >> In article s.c=3D >> >om>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >On Mar 6, 8:27=3D3DA0pm, JF Mezei wrot= >e: >> >> >> Bob, >> >> >> >> do you realise that people like you who use religious values/reasons= > to=3D >> >> >> >> oppose certain topics are exactly the same as muslim extremists who = >use=3D >> >> >> >> religious excuses to rebel against stuff they don't like (such as th= >e U=3D >> >SA)=3D3D >> >> > ? >> >> >> >> It is interesting that the country that should understand religious >> >> >> extremists the most (because of 9-11) should itself have so many >> >> >> extremists and not only no realise it, but give those extremists >> >> >> political voices and power. >> >> >> >I AM TIRED OF YOU EQUATING CHRISTIANS TO >> >> >MUSLIM EXTREMISTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> >> >> >Christians do not tie bombs to themselves and kill >> >> >others because they will not believe ... >> >> >> I've never understood why a terrorist who sacrifices themselves when at= >tac=3D >> >king >> >> their enemies should be considered any different than a terrorist who >> >> just plants a bomb and walks away and therefore lives to plant further = >bom=3D >> >bs. >> >> The IRA whose members were supposedly Christians didn't use suicide bom= >bin=3D >> >g >> >> but they did force others to drive cars filled with explosives at Briti= >sh >> >> Army checkpoints by threatening their families >> >> seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_bomb >> >> ( So no they didn't tie bombs to themselves to kill others - they "tied= >" b=3D >> >ombs >> >> to other innocent civilians and blew them up to kill others. >> >> I'd regard that tactic as being far more dispicable that suicide bombin= >g) >> >> >> It is also probably worth noting that some of the Japanese Kamikazi pil= >ots=3D >> >> >> were Christian see >> >> >>http://www.martinrothonline.com/Christians&War/Christian_suicide_bomb...= > >> >> >> David Webb >> >> Security team leader >> >> CCSS >> >> Middlesex University >> >> >> >the apostles and all other TRUE Christians were put >> >> >to death ... the last time I checked, it was Christians >> >> >who were laying dead in the catacombs in Rome, not >> >> >romans ...- Hide quoted text - >> >> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> >wrong ... they were NOT Christians ... >> >> >true Christians know that only God has the right to >> >kill, and that means suicide too, and if they do it is >> >murder ... and you can add abortion to that too ... >> >> So throughout history most christians haven't really been christian ? >> Catholic church - Inquisition killing heretics, witches etc >> Christian countries fighting wars in the name of religion. >> Most religious denominations fighting and indeed glorying in wars. >> >> The IRA members definitely considered themselves to be Catholic just as th= >e >> Loyalists considered themselves to be protestants. >> >> >> >> >just because someone says there are a Christian >> >does not mean they are ... >> >> The same could be said about many who profess to be muslims. >> >> David Webb >> Security team leader >> CCSS >> Middlesex University- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >those who kill in the name of God are NOT Christians ... > So as I said above you believe that throughout history practically all of those who called themselves Christians were not really Christians. In that case you cannot use your definition of Christians in comparison with other religious groups since you have introduced a gigantic selection bias based upon the very thing you are comparing. To see how silly this is we can compare your True Christians with the more general Christian community (ie those who profess to being Christians) rather than other groups such as those professing to be Muslims So we can say True Christians kill less than Christians which basically translates as Those Christians who don't kill kill less than the group of Christians which includes people who do kill. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >God has very rarely given that authority to anyone outside > >of Himself, mainly the jews in certain circumstances ... > >most of the time, he sends the angel of death to handle > >that ... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 09:35:29 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <1c4f0f82-0ae8-4b31-8b55-ca3ce456f374@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Mar 8, 10:37=A0am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <02afa56e-b51a-47e8-a51b-001595576...@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.= com>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > > > >On Mar 7, 11:17=3DA0am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >> In article >om>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > >> >On Mar 7, 9:05=3D3DA0am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >> >> In article >s.c=3D3D > >> >om>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > >> >> >On Mar 6, 8:27=3D3D3DA0pm, JF Mezei = wrot=3D > >e: > >> >> >> Bob, > > >> >> >> do you realise that people like you who use religious values/reas= ons=3D > > to=3D3D > > >> >> >> oppose certain topics are exactly the same as muslim extremists w= ho =3D > >use=3D3D > > >> >> >> religious excuses to rebel against stuff they don't like (such as= th=3D > >e U=3D3D > >> >SA)=3D3D3D > >> >> > ? > > >> >> >> It is interesting that the country that should understand religio= us > >> >> >> extremists the most (because of 9-11) should itself have so many > >> >> >> extremists and not only no realise it, but give those extremists > >> >> >> political voices and power. > > >> >> >I AM TIRED OF YOU EQUATING CHRISTIANS TO > >> >> >MUSLIM EXTREMISTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >> >> >Christians do not tie bombs to themselves and kill > >> >> >others because they will not believe ... > > >> >> I've never understood why a terrorist who sacrifices themselves when= at=3D > >tac=3D3D > >> >king > >> >> their enemies should be considered any different than a terrorist wh= o > >> >> just plants a bomb and walks away and therefore lives to plant furth= er =3D > >bom=3D3D > >> >bs. > >> >> The IRA whose members were supposedly Christians didn't use suicide = bom=3D > >bin=3D3D > >> >g > >> >> but they did force others to drive cars filled with explosives at Br= iti=3D > >sh > >> >> Army checkpoints by threatening their families > >> >> seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_bomb > >> >> ( So no they didn't tie bombs to themselves to kill others - they "t= ied=3D > >" b=3D3D > >> >ombs > >> >> to other innocent civilians and blew them up to kill others. > >> >> I'd regard that tactic as being far more dispicable that suicide bom= bin=3D > >g) > > >> >> It is also probably worth noting that some of the Japanese Kamikazi = pil=3D > >ots=3D3D > > >> >> were Christian see > > >> >>http://www.martinrothonline.com/Christians&War/Christian_suicide_bomb= ... > > >> >> David Webb > >> >> Security team leader > >> >> CCSS > >> >> Middlesex University > > >> >> >the apostles and all other TRUE Christians were put > >> >> >to death ... the last time I checked, it was Christians > >> >> >who were laying dead in the catacombs in Rome, not > >> >> >romans ...- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >wrong ... they were NOT Christians ... > > >> >true Christians know that only God has the right to > >> >kill, and that means suicide too, and if they do it is > >> >murder ... and you can add abortion to that too ... > > >> So throughout history most christians haven't really been christian ? > >> Catholic church - Inquisition killing heretics, witches etc > >> Christian countries fighting wars in the name of religion. > >> Most religious denominations fighting and indeed glorying in wars. > > >> The IRA members definitely considered themselves to be Catholic just as= th=3D > >e > >> Loyalists considered themselves to be protestants. > > >> >just because someone says there are a Christian > >> >does not mean they are ... > > >> The same could be said about many who profess to be muslims. > > >> David Webb > >> Security team leader > >> CCSS > >> Middlesex University- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >those who kill in the name of God are NOT Christians ... > > So as I said above you believe that throughout history practically all of > those who called themselves Christians were not really Christians. > > In that case you cannot use your definition of Christians in comparison wi= th > other religious groups since you have introduced a gigantic selection bias= > based upon the very thing you are comparing. > > To see how silly this is we can compare your True Christians with the more= > general Christian community (ie those who profess to being Christians) rat= her > than other groups such as those professing to be Muslims > > So we can say > > True Christians kill less than Christians > > which basically translates as > > Those Christians who don't kill kill less than the group of Christians whi= ch > includes people who do kill. > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > > > > >God has very rarely given that authority to anyone outside > > >of Himself, mainly the jews in certain circumstances ... > > >most of the time, he sends the angel of death to handle > > >that ...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - being a Christian is not a religion ... there are good catholics and bad, same with all other groups ... many that go to church but are not living the part will not make it into the kingdom ... that is why it says the road to hell is wide and many will find it while the road to heaven is straight and narrow and FEW find it ... religion does not get you into heaven ... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:38:09 -0500 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: Updated GNV kits available Message-ID: <47D2CF01.6000801@comcast.net> IanMiller wrote: > Updated GNV kits are available which include changes which I think > will be popular with some readers in this place. > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/03/06/8239351 > Does anyone know where I might report installation problems with the new kit? ------------------------------ Date: 8 Mar 2008 19:44:52 +0100 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: Updated GNV kits available Message-ID: <47d2ecb4$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <47D2CF01.6000801@comcast.net>, bradhamilton writes: >IanMiller wrote: >> Updated GNV kits are available which include changes which I think >> will be popular with some readers in this place. >> >> http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/03/06/8239351 > >Does anyone know where I might report installation problems with the new >kit? Start here, then at openvms.org, then join itrc and tell there, then tell at http://openvms.compaq.com/opensource/fb_272.html or the other way round (as you like it ;-) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:13:47 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu] > Sent: March 5, 2008 7:52 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! > > In article <47cdfb85$0$31313$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, > JF Mezei writes: > > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > >> Does VMS use VMS to process these violations? > > > > If there was a VMS management eager to grow sales instead of avoid > the > > next round of HP layoffs, they could donate VMS machines/licences to > > this VMS company. Then, with this company running our VMS, every bit > of > > advertising they would make would benefit our VMS. And this would > > totally bypass the advertising ban that seems to be in place at HP > > against our VMS. > > Reality check!!! You couldn't give a VMS system away (well, except > maybe to a hobbyist) today. Remember me? I provided VMS systems > here, at no cost to the University or the Department. I provided > and maintained the hardware. I installed and maintained all the > software. I administered the machines. And before you say, "Well > they were VAXen and the performance sucked.", you would be wrong. > No one ever complained about the performance and at one time it > included Alphas as well. They went away because no one wanted to > use VMS. Period. End of story. If you offered to give the "VMS" > operation a bunch of machines running OpenVMS I would imagine they > would be: > a) turned down > b) never used > or, most likely, > c) converted to Linux machines. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three > wolves > billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Mmmm.. Bill, the typical University IT environment at the College level is not what anyone would call a stable environment. The various depts primarily do their own thing and usually jump on different technologies every few years. At the US University I was at (server consolidation study) about a year ago, they used to be almost all Solaris. Now, Solaris has only a fraction of what it used to be. In each of the various depts., there is now MAC's (including scientific clusters), Linux, and a number of *BSD's .. Freeware and open source is everywhere because they do not have much budget and the College types like getting knee deep in bit twiddling at the OS level. This wild diversity and everyone doing their own thing drives the senior mgmt at the Univ crazy, but that is reality as each College usually has the purse strings for their dept. If the Univ I was at is similar in thinking to what other Univ's are thinking, then this wild diversity at the College level days are numbered. The Univ simply can not afford for each College to be maintaining their own mini-IT depts. Anyway, as I recall, most of the production processing (registrations, Financials etc) at your University runs Banner on OpenVMS .. is that not correct? :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.136 ************************