INFO-VAX Tue, 18 Mar 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 155 Contents: Re: Another WSIT triumph? Re: Another WSIT triumph? Re: Another WSIT triumph? RE: Another WSIT triumph? CSWS 2.1-1 - find file problem Hobbyist Licenses Re: Hobbyist Licenses Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: oracle Re: oracle Re: oracle Re: oracle Re: oracle Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: Weekly Boot Camp Update Re: Weekly Boot Camp Update Re: Weekly Boot Camp Update ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:41:55 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Another WSIT triumph? Message-ID: Hi Kerry, > Yeah, gotta love these IT Mgrs who read PC Week way to much... What, unlike your colleagues with their fingers on the industry pulse? > Yep, sounds like a great story in the making .. While history has certainly been on our side, I don't think relying on the continued failure of all of these replacement systems to be the most prudent of strategies. But what's the alternative for these long-suffering VMS customers Kerry? What is VMS Middle Management offering them as a strategy for incorporating their rich herritage of data and business logic into modern RIA application development. Standing still is just not an option Kerry, and is tantamount to going backwards, but that is exactly what your buddies have inflicted on the customer base for over 10 years! Now DECforms and dumb-terminals may still be king in Kerry-World, and if that's where the user-interface for traditional VMS 3GL applications has plateaued then so be it, but then why would VMS Middle Management have squandered hundreds of millions of dollars on BridgeWorks and WSIT? And more importantly the opportunity cost to provide something customers actually want? Let's say I'm Joe VMS Customer (eg: Pentagon) and I want to put a GUI (eg: Flex) on my "legacy" VMS application (eg: COBOL/Rdb) what do your incompetent wanker mates in VMS Middle Management tell them to do? Let's have all/any/one of them stand up at bootcamp and say "I am responsible for BridgeWorks and WSIT! It is the future of VMS Application development! And I'm proud of what we've done with the time, money, and human resources we've squandered! (The fruits of which are now in our bank accounts)" Then I want Kerry Main to sit through the "Hello World" with WSIT session at BootCamp, and then report back here on what it is *exactly* that VMS Middle Management would have the customer base do. I guess the fact that success has many fathers might explain why BridgeWorks and WSIT have grown up bastards. Regards Richard Maher "Main, Kerry" wrote in message news:C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BF60EC9A93F@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net... > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] > Sent: March 17, 2008 7:02 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Another WSIT triumph? > > Hi Again, > > Apparently that job posting has expired, but a new one has been posted; > here > are the details: - > > Cold Fusion Developer Permanent > > ColdFusion Web Developer. > Location's: Arlington, VA (Pentagon) > Performance Profile: > Responsibilities include & requirements definition, application > maintenance, > and user support in a production environment. Responsibilities also > include > support necessary to migrate the DON Industrial Budget Information > System > (DONIBIS) from an OpenVMS Legacy platform (COBOL, DCL, Rdb, Datatrieve) > onto > a Windows 2003 system running Cold Fusion and accessing Oracle 9i > databases. > This task will require coordination with onsite functional > sponsor/users, > the government project manager, the onsite technical team and offsite > users > and customers to gather requirements and incorporate that information > into > functional design and application modifications. > > Daily duties include but are not& limited to the following: > 1 - Perform requirements investigation and definition in support of > - Budget Application Enhancements and Modifications > - Migration of the DONIBIS application from OpenVMS to a > Windows/ColdFusion environment > 2 - Perform Application Maintenance > - Support and develop Cold Fusion applications to interface with > existing > data sources > - Create Microsoft Word and Excel documents via ColdFusion > - Develop system documentation > 3 - Perform user support > [snip...] Yeah, gotta love these IT Mgrs who read PC Week way to much... Lets see now .. take a couple of years of lowball estimates of what it will really take to do the migration, leave out the Operations impact, add a year or two more while they change the name of the project to cover up that they are 2+ years late and many millions of $'s over budget + 1 to 2 years recovery time when the sponsor decides it is time to run for cover and CYA... Yep, sounds like a great story in the making .. :-) [I know of one environment here in Canada that is approx $100M over budget, three years late, gone through a couple of sponsors and only now is the new sponsor asking basic questions like "after all this, what was it we were trying to accomplish?"] Very similar to this article someone recently posted here: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Jurassic-Programmers-.aspx :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:41:27 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Another WSIT triumph? Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:41:55 -0700, Richard Maher wrote: > Hi Kerry, > >> Yeah, gotta love these IT Mgrs who read PC Week way to much... > > What, unlike your colleagues with their fingers on the industry pulse? > >> Yep, sounds like a great story in the making .. > > While history has certainly been on our side, I don't think relying on > the > continued failure of all of these replacement systems to be the most > prudent > of strategies. > > But what's the alternative for these long-suffering VMS customers Kerry? > What is VMS Middle Management offering them as a strategy for > incorporating > their rich herritage of data and business logic into modern RIA > application > development. Standing still is just not an option Kerry, and is > tantamount > to going backwards, but that is exactly what your buddies have inflicted > on > the customer base for over 10 years! Richard, check your calendar, VAX was replaced by Alpha 16 years ago. > > Now DECforms and dumb-terminals may still be king in Kerry-World, and if > that's where the user-interface for traditional VMS 3GL applications has > plateaued then so be it, but then why would VMS Middle Management have > squandered hundreds of millions of dollars on BridgeWorks and WSIT? And > more > importantly the opportunity cost to provide something customers actually > want? > > Let's say I'm Joe VMS Customer (eg: Pentagon) and I want to put a GUI > (eg: > Flex) on my "legacy" VMS application (eg: COBOL/Rdb) what do your > incompetent wanker mates in VMS Middle Management tell them to do? Let's > have all/any/one of them stand up at bootcamp and say "I am responsible > for > BridgeWorks and WSIT! It is the future of VMS Application development! > And > I'm proud of what we've done with the time, money, and human resources > we've > squandered! (The fruits of which are now in our bank accounts)" Then I > want > Kerry Main to sit through the "Hello World" with WSIT session at > BootCamp, > and then report back here on what it is *exactly* that VMS Middle > Management > would have the customer base do. I guess the fact that success has many > fathers might explain why BridgeWorks and WSIT have grown up bastards. > > Regards Richard Maher > > "Main, Kerry" wrote in message > news:C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BF60EC9A93F@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] >> Sent: March 17, 2008 7:02 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Another WSIT triumph? >> >> Hi Again, >> >> Apparently that job posting has expired, but a new one has been posted; >> here >> are the details: - >> >> Cold Fusion Developer Permanent >> >> ColdFusion Web Developer. >> Location's: Arlington, VA (Pentagon) >> Performance Profile: >> Responsibilities include & requirements definition, application >> maintenance, >> and user support in a production environment. Responsibilities also >> include >> support necessary to migrate the DON Industrial Budget Information >> System >> (DONIBIS) from an OpenVMS Legacy platform (COBOL, DCL, Rdb, Datatrieve) >> onto >> a Windows 2003 system running Cold Fusion and accessing Oracle 9i >> databases. >> This task will require coordination with onsite functional >> sponsor/users, >> the government project manager, the onsite technical team and offsite >> users >> and customers to gather requirements and incorporate that information >> into >> functional design and application modifications. >> >> Daily duties include but are not& limited to the following: >> 1 - Perform requirements investigation and definition in support of >> - Budget Application Enhancements and Modifications >> - Migration of the DONIBIS application from OpenVMS to a >> Windows/ColdFusion environment >> 2 - Perform Application Maintenance >> - Support and develop Cold Fusion applications to interface with >> existing >> data sources >> - Create Microsoft Word and Excel documents via ColdFusion >> - Develop system documentation >> 3 - Perform user support >> > > > [snip...] > > Yeah, gotta love these IT Mgrs who read PC Week way to much... > > Lets see now .. take a couple of years of lowball estimates of what it > will > really take to do the migration, leave out the Operations impact, add a > year > or two more while they change the name of the project to cover up that > they > are 2+ years late and many millions of $'s over budget + 1 to 2 years > recovery > time when the sponsor decides it is time to run for cover and CYA... > > Yep, sounds like a great story in the making .. > > :-) > > [I know of one environment here in Canada that is approx $100M over > budget, > three years late, gone through a couple of sponsors and only now is the > new sponsor asking basic questions like "after all this, what was it we > were > trying to accomplish?"] > > Very similar to this article someone recently posted here: > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Jurassic-Programmers-.aspx > > :-) > > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-254-8911 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. > > > > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:43:15 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Another WSIT triumph? Message-ID: <47df0fec$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard Maher wrote: > Interesting VMS job description: - > http://www.jobserve.com.au/W2AF542B55F0D6F15.job > > These guys just don't get it do they? Don't they know that the Waste of > Substantial Investment in Technology (nee BridgeWorks) has been over 10 > years in the making, has had a Cecil B DeMille cast of thousands, and a > budget that'd make Hollywood blush? > > Who is this Mickey Mouse outfit anyway? Clearly some sort of lose-cannon, > maverick organization that just hasn't been reading the same Gartner reports > that HP's IMM team can recite ad infinitum. Anyway, I'm sure HP don't want > their filthy money. Full steam ahead - you're all doing very well :-( Are there anything surprising in that job text ? I would assume practically all readers have seen or heard about similar migrations many times. [I am a bit surprised that they move *to* ColdFusion - I would not have recommended that, but ...] Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:47:34 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Another WSIT triumph? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] > Sent: March 17, 2008 7:42 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Another WSIT triumph? > > Hi Kerry, > > > Yeah, gotta love these IT Mgrs who read PC Week way to much... > > What, unlike your colleagues with their fingers on the industry pulse? > > > Yep, sounds like a great story in the making .. > > While history has certainly been on our side, I don't think relying on > the > continued failure of all of these replacement systems to be the most > prudent > of strategies. > > But what's the alternative for these long-suffering VMS customers > Kerry? > What is VMS Middle Management offering them as a strategy for > incorporating > their rich herritage of data and business logic into modern RIA > application > development. Standing still is just not an option Kerry, and is > tantamount > to going backwards, but that is exactly what your buddies have > inflicted on > the customer base for over 10 years! > First, lets dispel some basic assumptions which is partly a reason for Companies getting into a pickle in the later stages of their project - Who says a point-n-click gui is the best interface for all applications? Why does everyone just assume this is true? Lets be realistic - for those that require lots of data entry in short periods of time, many traditional interfaces are much better suited than a cool looking gui where one needs to manage a mouse to navigate. Ever wonder why reservation systems still use cryptic interfaces? Bottom line is speed. > Now DECforms and dumb-terminals may still be king in Kerry-World, and > if > that's where the user-interface for traditional VMS 3GL applications > has > plateaued then so be it, but then why would VMS Middle Management have > squandered hundreds of millions of dollars on BridgeWorks and WSIT? And > more > importantly the opportunity cost to provide something customers > actually > want? > There are a number of web enabling technologies around that are orders of magnitude cheaper than re-writing the application. The ones you mentioned are just a few of these. A few examples: http://www.ericom.com/hostovms.asp http://www.attachmate.com/Products/Host+Connectivity/host-connectivity.htm > Let's say I'm Joe VMS Customer (eg: Pentagon) and I want to put a GUI > (eg: > Flex) on my "legacy" VMS application (eg: COBOL/Rdb) what do your > incompetent wanker mates in VMS Middle Management tell them to do? > Let's > have all/any/one of them stand up at bootcamp and say "I am responsible > for > BridgeWorks and WSIT! It is the future of VMS Application development! > And > I'm proud of what we've done with the time, money, and human resources > we've > squandered! (The fruits of which are now in our bank accounts)" Then I > want > Kerry Main to sit through the "Hello World" with WSIT session at > BootCamp, > and then report back here on what it is *exactly* that VMS Middle > Management > would have the customer base do. I guess the fact that success has many > fathers might explain why BridgeWorks and WSIT have grown up bastards. > > Regards Richard Maher > [snip..] Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:26:51 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: CSWS 2.1-1 - find file problem Message-ID: <00A76BDC.8D2590A7@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> VMSers -- I opened a case on ITRC about this issue a year ago (21-MAR-2007), and haven't gotten a satisfactory resolution. Case # 3217657193 - which has apparently been archived. With VMS 8.3 (alpha or itanium) and SWS 2.1-1, on every system _I've_ tried, CSWS takes forever to fail to find a file. (Not the case with mod_userdir, but with plain vanilla file URLS, like, say, index.html.) The bigger the directory in which CSWS is looking, the longer it takes to fail to find the file - and for us, it's a matter of wall-clock seconds. I never got the problem solved, and Support couldn't reproduce it. Does anyone else out there see the problem, or does the behavior described below sound familiar as maybe a CRTL problem? This is a big issue with Nessus scans, which are now happening monthly. Each Apache subprocess that tries to respond to one of the bogus URLs Nessus comes up with is essentially hung for several seconds, chewing CPU time and not servicing other requests; the whole system is brought to its knees. It's not as good a story that VMS is immune to buffer-overflow attacks and URL-based Windows attacks if just hitting it with those tests amounts to an effective denial of service. I saved what I had in the case, and here it is. (3217657193) at ITRC. - by:Alan Winston(CA1008153) - Try this: Use SDA> XFC and SET TRACE/SELECT=LEVEL:2 on a lightly-loaded system running Apache at the levels mentioned above. [CSWS V2.1-1 Full LP Installed] What we found on a number of different systems we had access to was that on VMS 8.3 systems (Alpha and Itanium both), if we specified a file that wasn't there, we'd see file access and deaccess for EVERY FILE IN THE DIRECTORY (but only the uppermost version of each). It happens on SAN disks, HBVS disks, directly-attached SCSI disks. We also tried it with the same version of Apache running on Alpha under 7.3-2 and it didn't happen. (So our suspicion is that there's a problem in the CRTL under 8.3 that isn't there in 7.3-2, or that there's a problem with the way Apache is using it that it got away with in 7.3-2.) The problem doesn't slow things down noticeably if you only have a few files in a directory, but if you have, say, 500, it takes seconds of clock time. It takes fewer seconds of clock time the second time you try it, but that's because all the files are still in cache - it's still accessing and deaccessing all of them. It appears that mod_userdir doesn't have this problem. We mapped a userdirectory to a directory in web space (that is, so /~username got us into a large directory we could also reach as /www). Failing to find a file via /www accessed hundreds of files; failing to find it via /~username didn't even show up (mod_userdir presumably calculated the filename and passed it to RMS, which returned a failure; this was subsecond response.) We did it on different machines configured by different people in different countries and got consistent results. There's a real bug in there someplace, and you can make it show up with several hundred files in a directory. -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:36:18 -0400 From: nobody@spamcop.com Subject: Hobbyist Licenses Message-ID: How do I renew my VAX VMS hobbiest licenses. I tried using htttp://www.openvmshobbyist.com/register.php a couple of weeks ago. The site says the request was accepted and the licenses will be E-mailed but they never arrived. I verified my spam filter was not blocking the site and tried again this weekend with the same results. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:12:24 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Hobbyist Licenses Message-ID: nobody@spamcop.com wrote: > How do I renew my VAX VMS hobbiest licenses. I tried using > htttp://www.openvmshobbyist.com/register.php a couple of weeks ago. > The site says the request was accepted and the licenses will be > E-mailed but they never arrived. I verified my spam filter was not > blocking the site and tried again this weekend with the same results. I don't see why they should send anything to "nobody" who even can't sign his question with a name... Best Regards, Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:52:26 -0800 From: glen herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Message-ID: <__qdncmvCq96V0PanZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com> Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com wrote: > Glen, you're in Portland too? That makes Tad, Chuck No, Seattle. It was about a four hour bus ride down there. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:04:23 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Message-ID: Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com wrote in news:e9258da1-f185-4722-a19f-bd44b0df4067@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com: > On Mar 17, 9:46 am, Tad Winters > wrote: >> Ken.Fairfi...@gmail.com wrote in news:473b6219-d285-492d-bac4- >> 9dd581c8b...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com: >> >> >> >> > On Mar 17, 12:37 am, glen herrmannsfeldt >> > wrote: >> >> Chuck Forsberg wrote: >> >> > Free to a good home. You Haul. Portland Oregon >> >> > Satisfaction guaranteed or full purchase refunded >> >> > (S&H not included). >> >> >> I was in Gresham yesterday, though not with my own >> >> transportation. Also, my wife would rather I not >> >> have another computer. >> >> > Glen, you're in Portland too? That makes Tad, Chuck >> > Glen, and little ol' me (in Beaverton) all in town. >> > I wonder who else is up here? Small world... :-) >> >> > -Ken >> >> > P.S. And I already have my Island Co. PWS 600au >> > in the living room, and there's *no* space for >> > *anything* else! >> > -- >> > Ken & Ann Fairfield >> > What: Ken dot And dot Ann >> > Where: Gmail dot Com >> >> Gee, maybe we better start a LUG. For the longest time, I thought >> I was the only one in the Portland area that frequented c.o.v. > > There may be a few others. I seem to recall > Zane Healey posting here infrequently, and > there may be one or two other "lurkers". :-) > > -Ken That's right. A few years ago, Zane was interested when I was try to find (potential) hobbyists for some gear that was being tossed by my former employer. I was able to get rid of some MicroVAX 3100 systems that way, but Zane was looking for more recent hardware. One of the guys, with whom I worked, had first claim to the equipment. He retired with at least 8 MicroVAX 3100 systems of various models as well as a half dozen AlphaServers. He was going to put together a working museum in Central Oregon. He already had a VAX 11/730 and a MicroVAX II. I suspect he had some other gear as well. We need those "lurkers" to speak up. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:08:46 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Message-ID: glen herrmannsfeldt wrote in news: __qdncmvCq96V0PanZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com: > Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com wrote: > > >> Glen, you're in Portland too? That makes Tad, Chuck > > No, Seattle. It was about a four hour bus ride down there. > > -- glen > Jim Sprinkle is up in the Seattle area... or at least he was a few years ago. He made a trip down to pick up a MicroVAX 3100. I seem to recall that Rich Alderson is up in Seattle as well. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Mar 2008 19:39:44 -0400 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Message-ID: Tad Winters writes: > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote in news: > __qdncmvCq96V0PanZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com: >> Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com wrote: >>> Glen, you're in Portland too? That makes Tad, Chuck >> No, Seattle. It was about a four hour bus ride down there. > Jim Sprinkle is up in the Seattle area... or at least he was a few years > ago. He made a trip down to pick up a MicroVAX 3100. > I seem to recall that Rich Alderson is up in Seattle as well. Yes indeed. -- Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:45:39 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: Ubuntu with openoffice We install it on Intel/ AMD stuff every day DT wrote in message news:47d99dbc$0$5617$607ed4bc@cv.net... > In article <47d99a4d$0$23929$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > writes: >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> >>> David, you are back to your bad old habits of posting information >>> about non-VMS gear, off topic for this newsgroup. >> >> >>Actually, he could have simply announced that they were pre-loaded with >>Excursions or some other X terminal software (as well as a good VT200 >>emulator) and then pitch those as smart terminals to access VMS hosts > > Which one is good? > > > >>and they would then be perfectly "in topic" :-) > > My son needs a computer and his school is proselytizing for Billzebub and > his > gang of _M_iscreant _I_diot _C_oding _R_ejects _O_utputting _S_pecious > _O_ften > _F_lawed _T_echnology. I won't buy one of these from Island with Weendoze > on > it but I will let my son know and, if he wants, he can purchase one. I > will, > of course, heavily dissuade him. I'd rather see him with a MacBook and > with > the ability to run OS X and Weendoze, if necessary, instead of just > Weendoze. > What he needs is the ability to work in a spreadsheet (they force-feed > exhell) > and he can use Numbers or, if really needed, he can put exhell on the > MacBook. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:12:36 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: How much extra for an additional 1GB of RAM? On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:45:39 -0700, David Turner, Island Computers wrote: > Ubuntu with openoffice > We install it on Intel/ AMD stuff every day > > DT > wrote in message > news:47d99dbc$0$5617$607ed4bc@cv.net... >> In article <47d99a4d$0$23929$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei >> writes: >>> Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>> >>>> David, you are back to your bad old habits of posting information >>>> about non-VMS gear, off topic for this newsgroup. >>> >>> >>> Actually, he could have simply announced that they were pre-loaded with >>> Excursions or some other X terminal software (as well as a good VT200 >>> emulator) and then pitch those as smart terminals to access VMS hosts >> >> Which one is good? >> >> >> >>> and they would then be perfectly "in topic" :-) >> >> My son needs a computer and his school is proselytizing for Billzebub >> and >> his >> gang of _M_iscreant _I_diot _C_oding _R_ejects _O_utputting _S_pecious >> _O_ften >> _F_lawed _T_echnology. I won't buy one of these from Island with >> Weendoze >> on >> it but I will let my son know and, if he wants, he can purchase one. I >> will, >> of course, heavily dissuade him. I'd rather see him with a MacBook and >> with >> the ability to run OS X and Weendoze, if necessary, instead of just >> Weendoze. >> What he needs is the ability to work in a spreadsheet (they force-feed >> exhell) >> and he can use Numbers or, if really needed, he can put exhell on the >> MacBook. >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker >> VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >> >> http://tmesis.com/drat.html > > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:50:23 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: oracle Message-ID: And what is the relevance of this? On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 06:37:26 -0700, swetha123 wrote: > Oracle9i Application Server > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle9i-application-server.html > Summary of Oracle Features > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/summary-of-oracle-features.html > The Oracle Family > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-family.html > How Oracle Grew > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-oracle-grew.html > oracle Relational Basics > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-relational-basics.html > oracle The Evolution of the Relational Database > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-evolution-of-relational-database.html > Introducing Oracle > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/introducing-oracle.html > Learning the Basics of PL/SQL > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/learning-basics-of-plsql.html > oracle Destroy the database > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-destroy-database.html > oracle Stopping the database > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-stopping-database.html > oracle Destroying Schema Objects > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-destroying-schema-objects.html > oracle Creating and Querying a View > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-creating-and-querying-view.html > oracle Query the table > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-query-table.html > oracle create a index > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle-create-index.html > basics of oracle > http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/basics-of-oracle.html -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:49:03 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: oracle Message-ID: <47DEBD1F.2040706@comcast.net> Tom Linden wrote: > And what is the relevance of this? > > On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 06:37:26 -0700, swetha123 > wrote: > >> Oracle9i Application Server >> http://freedownloadablebooks.blogspot.com/2008/02/oracle9i-application-server.html >> It's not necessary to quote the entire spam!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:38:08 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: oracle Message-ID: <47df0eb7$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Tom Linden wrote: > And what is the relevance of this? To generate traffic on the spammers pages. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:43:02 -0500 From: Michael Austin Subject: Re: oracle Message-ID: <_4FDj.1664$qT6.1635@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> And what is the relevance of this? > > To generate traffic on the spammers pages. > > Arne All spammers should have their hands broken into tiny little pieces.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:43:47 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: oracle Message-ID: <47DF1E53.4040409@comcast.net> Michael Austin wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> Tom Linden wrote: >> >>> And what is the relevance of this? >> >> >> To generate traffic on the spammers pages. >> >> Arne > > > All spammers should have their hands broken into tiny little pieces.... All spammers should be rendered incapable of reproduction! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:50:18 -0400 From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: In article , Robert Deininger wrote: > In article , Fred Bach wrote: > > > Dear comp.os.vms, > > > > This one caught me by surprise. Apparently the problem has > > been around for at least a year, looking back into old mail. > > > > Let's hope none of you are reading this on VMS Mail. ;-) > > > > On the other hand, if you are reading this on VMS mail, > > and if the following text all reads correctly, please tell > > me how you set up your VMS mail. > > > > We are running > > Process Software MultiNet V5.1 Rev A-X, AlphaServer DS10 > > 617 MHz, OpenVMS AXP V8.3 > > > > SYNOPSIS: > > > > VMS Mail translates tilde characters ("~") in the body of > > the mail, into dollar sign characters for incoming mail. > > > > I think it is REALLY BAD FORM for an email program to > > translate any legitimate incoming characters in a text > > message into other text characters. > > > > In fact, unless we can turn this off, this 'feature' > > makes me think that VMS Mail has, sadly, at last become > > effectively unusable as a reliable communications tool. > > > > > > THE DETAILS: > > > > Some screen copy: > > > > > OPS_DEVBN2> mail > > > > > > MAIL> send > > > To: ops > > > CC: > > > Subj: Tilde Test > > > Enter your message below. Press CTRL/Z when complete, or CTRL/C to quit: > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > > ~~~~~~ > > > asdfghjk > > > ASDFHJK; > > > > > > > > > MAIL> SEL/NEW > > > %MAIL-I-SELECTED, 1 message selected > > > > > > MAIL> READ > > > > > > > > > #1 13-MAR-2008 14:21:10.89 NEWMAIL > > > From: DEVCLU::OPS > > > To: OPS > > > CC: OPS > > > Subj: Tilde Test > > > > > > $ $ $ $ $ > > > $$$$$$ > > > asdfghjk > > > ASDFHJK; > > > > > > MAIL> > > > > PLEASE notice how VMS Mail translates the tilde character > > "~" into a dollar sign. This means that when I receive a > > URL with a tilde in it (very common in expressing users' > > private spaces at a particular domain) the URL is not > > directly usable in a browser window. > > > > The tilde gets translated to a dollar sign on receiving > > mail, not on transmitting, as verified in tests sending > > tilde's to non-VMS machines on the local net. The tilde > > characters arrive just fine and are displayed correctly > > on those machines. > > > > I'm shocked that VMS would do something like this. > > > > > > THE REQUEST: > > > > How did this logic come about? Is there some VMS logical > > that we can set to prevent this from happening? I had a > > quick scan of the online VMS Mail documentation and found > > no reference. So far, other than confirming the fault, > > I can't find anyone here who knows anything about it. > > > > Thanks. > > > > . fred bach . music at triumf dot c a > > I reproduced this easily on my V8.3 system. > > The original data is intact in the mail file; only the display is > affected. If you EXTRACT the message, the tildes are still there. > > There is a filtering routine that removes "bad" characters from the > display, replacing them with "$". The comments indicate it is to > prevent escape sequences from changing screen attributes, etc. > > In 2005, the filter was modified to add "}", "~", and some other > characters to the set that is replaced with "$" on display. The stated > reason was that some terminal emulators (which ones not specified) were > finding escape sequences when "}" was used in certain sequences. > > Mail unfortunately does not know how to account for different terminal > types. It applies the same output filtering for any terminal. > > In 2006, the filtering was changed again. If logical name MAIL$FILTER > is defined to "1", the old filtering is restored w.r.t. "}" and "~". It > has to be a process logical name, and it has to have value "1": > $ DEFINE/PROCESS MAIL$FILTER 1 > > This change has been made, but it appears that no MAIL patch has been > issued that contains the change. The logical name works in V8.3-1H1 > (Integrity only). > > If you have support, I think you should ask for a patch containing the > MAIL$FILTER support. If you go this route, it might save time if you > refer to SCT #5991, which is the internal note that contains some > details. Update... Patch kits were requested today for these versions: V8.2-1 I64 V8.3 I64 and Alpha These kits would make the V8.3-1H1 functionality available on the earlier VMS versions: $ DEFINE/PROCESS MAIL$FILTER 1 to keep "}" and "~" from being filtered out. The patch request is COMputable and awaiting action by the scheduler. I have no information about when/if the patch kits will be available on the web. I expect the issue of MAIL's output filtering will be revisited for the next VMS release. -- Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:24:16 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <022a67c3$0$5073$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Robert Deininger wrote: > Patch kits were requested today for these versions: > V8.2-1 I64 > V8.3 I64 and Alpha > > These kits would make the V8.3-1H1 functionality available on the > earlier VMS versions: > $ DEFINE/PROCESS MAIL$FILTER 1 > to keep "}" and "~" from being filtered out. Wouldn't it have been simpler for you guys and better for customers to provide a MAIL.EXE image that just didn't do that filtering ? Customers who don't need the filtering could then install that image and not have to worry about that truly pesky /PROCESS logical. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:33:59 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Weekly Boot Camp Update Message-ID: John Reagan writes: >I believe Sue spent most of the weekend sorting though all the abstracts >submitted. Sadly, I don't think she found room for my "How to print >tildes in COBOL using a 3-phase MicroVAX" session. [cancels bootcamp registration] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:43:06 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Weekly Boot Camp Update Message-ID: Hi John, > Sadly, I don't think she found room for my "How to print > tildes in COBOL using a 3-phase MicroVAX" session. Bugger! :-) Cheers Richard Maher PS. Subconsciously (or otherwise) you're still playing favourites; you should/could have used Pascal instead of COBOL. (Admittedly, the COBOL version probably has more legs :-) PPS. How 'bout a "Dogma-driven homogeneous computing in the 21st century and beyond" session? Or "Why customers aren't everything"? "John Reagan" wrote in message news:frm4rt$ptv$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > Richard Maher wrote: > > Hi Sue, > > > > Is COV still the/a venue for the "weekly" bootcamp updates? > > > > I've been checking the bootcamp web-page but nothing much seems to change? > > And as far as an agenda goes, all I can find is: - "The agenda will be > > available in early March 2008". > > I believe Sue spent most of the weekend sorting though all the abstracts > submitted. Sadly, I don't think she found room for my "How to print > tildes in COBOL using a 3-phase MicroVAX" session. > > > -- > John Reagan > OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader > Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 18 Mar 2008 00:11:50 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Weekly Boot Camp Update Message-ID: <47df08c6$0$5613$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , John Reagan writes: >Richard Maher wrote: >> Hi Sue, >> >> Is COV still the/a venue for the "weekly" bootcamp updates? >> >> I've been checking the bootcamp web-page but nothing much seems to change? >> And as far as an agenda goes, all I can find is: - "The agenda will be >> available in early March 2008". > >I believe Sue spent most of the weekend sorting though all the abstracts >submitted. Sadly, I don't think she found room for my "How to print >tildes in COBOL using a 3-phase MicroVAX" session. Damn! That sounds like it would have been a smokin' session too. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.155 ************************