INFO-VAX Wed, 09 Apr 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 198 Contents: chip head stuff: Intel's Nehalem Re: chip head stuff: Intel's Nehalem Extending/suppressing SSH session timeout under TCP/IP Services? Re: Extending/suppressing SSH session timeout under TCP/IP Services? Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Requir Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Requir Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Requir Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Requir Invoke program on pc? Re: Invoke program on pc? Re: Invoke program on pc? Msa1000 CLI Configuration Cable Re: New contact details for Guy Peleg Re: New contact details for Guy Peleg Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:53:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: chip head stuff: Intel's Nehalem Message-ID: <66afeb3f-4090-4e7a-a15e-ab75939236b3@u69g2000hse.googlegroups.com> chip head stuff: Intel's Nehalem will finish as a quad-core supporting 16 threads and DDR3. http://www.dailytech.com/Intels+Nehalem+Flirts+With+32+GHz+at+IDF+2008/article11350.htm Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:56:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: chip head stuff: Intel's Nehalem Message-ID: On Apr 8, 10:53=A0pm, Neil Rieck wrote: > > chip head stuff: Intel's Nehalem will finish as a quad-core supporting > 16 threads and DDR3. > Sorry but I runing low on coffee. Nehalem will finish as an octa-core supporting 16 threads. With a quad-socket motherboard you'll end up with 32 cores and 64 threads. http://www.dailytech.com/Intels+Nehalem+Flirts+With+32+GHz+at+IDF+2008/artic= le11350.htm Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:18:42 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Extending/suppressing SSH session timeout under TCP/IP Services? Message-ID: <00A77D1C.ACD55DA8@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Gang -- Our Itanium machines run TCP/IP Services; our Alphas run Multinet, and I'm a lot more used to Multinet. On current (and recently past) versions of VMS (8.3, 8.31H1) and TCP/IP Services (5.6x) our incoming SSH connections have some kind of inactivity timeout - after five minutes they freeze up and/or drop the connection. For our uses, that's just incredibly annoying. We haven't found what knobs to twiddle to either extend or disable the timeout, and we certainly don't want to resort to cheesy tricks like running a program in a subprocess to update the time in one corner of the screen every minutes. So how can we disable the timeout, or lengthen the allowed inactive time? Thanks, -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:18:25 -0600 From: John Nebel Subject: Re: Extending/suppressing SSH session timeout under TCP/IP Services? Message-ID: <47FC1961.108@csdco.com> Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > Gang -- > > Our Itanium machines run TCP/IP Services; our Alphas run Multinet, and I'm a > lot more used to Multinet. On current (and recently past) versions of VMS > (8.3, 8.31H1) and TCP/IP Services (5.6x) our incoming SSH connections have some > kind of inactivity timeout - after five minutes they freeze up and/or drop the > connection. > > For our uses, that's just incredibly annoying. We haven't found what knobs to > twiddle to either extend or disable the timeout, and we certainly don't want > to resort to cheesy tricks like running a program in a subprocess to update the > time in one corner of the screen every minutes. > > So how can we disable the timeout, or lengthen the allowed inactive time? > > Thanks, > > -- Alan Alan, You might check the TCP keepalive values with TCPIP> sysconfig -q inet esp. tcp_keepidle Specifies the amount of idle time, in seconds, before sending a keepalive probe. The default interval is two hours. John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:29:45 -0700 (PDT) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Requir Message-ID: <495bcb75-3b49-4912-9a35-64847518d7a7@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> On Apr 7, 9:37=A0pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > > Hhmmm... Speaks rather badly of the calibre of BASIC programmers you're > accustommed to, I guess. Dunno... Guess I came over on a different boat. > No. Unlike LIOCS and other vendors, they didn't just hide routines, they wrote their own Forms engine which embedded both Forms and Logic. In theory it was so the forms could be run in batch, but few were tested that way. > "Perspective" - wasn't that the (il)LIOCS BASIC-plus package that got > carried forward onto Basic Plus-2? If so, a colleague and I worked on > that, also. The API itself was a major disaster. We tried to fix/extend > it - which only exposed more holes in their code. Perspective 500 was BASIC PLUS/Plus-2 700 and 800 were VAX BASIC P-900 was the version without any Quirks. (unless you worked there, you wouldn't understand that joke) Don't remember which platform P-600 was on. That was the transitional time. The package had three main problems, all of which were fixable: 1) It was originally Singer BASIC for a Singer computer. 2) We had one developer who loved to use IREGARDLESS and NOT NOT logic. 3) One small but senior set of developers thought GOTO 9999 was cleaner than GOSUB B9999_NEXT_RECORD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:31:14 -0700 (PDT) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Requir Message-ID: <8f863cb3-193e-4e9c-95e6-79e9a5f34161@u3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Apr 7, 9:49=A0pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > yyyc186 writes: > >The billing rate being offered is less than half of what DEC BASIC > >coders are getting these days. =A0If someone did bother to bone up, they > >wouldn't bother applying for the contract. > > Just for laughs, what rates are those fools offering? I don't know about these particular fools, but SAI People (sp?) sputtered $35.00/hr in broken English when they called. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Apr 2008 01:27:55 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Message-ID: <662kcrF2idmreU1@mid.individual.net> In article <8f863cb3-193e-4e9c-95e6-79e9a5f34161@u3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, yyyc186 writes: > On Apr 7, 9:49 pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: >> yyyc186 writes: >> >The billing rate being offered is less than half of what DEC BASIC >> >coders are getting these days.  If someone did bother to bone up, they >> >wouldn't bother applying for the contract. >> >> Just for laughs, what rates are those fools offering? > I don't know about these particular fools, but SAI People (sp?) > sputtered $35.00/hr in broken English when they called. I'm actually in the market for a new job but even I wouldn't take that. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:41:27 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Requir Message-ID: <47FC2CD7.BEB1D95@spam.comcast.net> yyyc186 wrote: > > On Apr 7, 9:37 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > > > Hhmmm... Speaks rather badly of the calibre of BASIC programmers you're > > accustommed to, I guess. Dunno... Guess I came over on a different boat. > > > No. Unlike LIOCS and other vendors, they didn't just hide routines, > they wrote their own Forms engine which embedded both Forms and > Logic. Hhmmm... Sounds a bit like All-in-1 with forms display data and A1 script within the form itself. > In theory it was so the forms could be run in batch, but few > were tested that way. Rather like using DFU in batch or a DCL proc., eh? DFU uses SMG for terminal I/O. > > "Perspective" - wasn't that the (il)LIOCS BASIC-plus package that got > > carried forward onto Basic Plus-2? If so, a colleague and I worked on > > that, also. The API itself was a major disaster. We tried to fix/extend > > it - which only exposed more holes in their code. > > Perspective 500 was BASIC PLUS/Plus-2 > > 700 and 800 were VAX BASIC > > P-900 was the version without any Quirks. (unless you worked there, > you wouldn't understand that joke) > > Don't remember which platform P-600 was on. That was the transitional > time. > > The package had three main problems, all of which were fixable: > 1) It was originally Singer BASIC for a Singer computer. > 2) We had one developer who loved to use IREGARDLESS and NOT NOT > logic. I often used "NOT NOT_condition" to test for the opposite of a truth value where it made sense to do so, but not as a matter of course. Never saw any "IREGARDLESS"(sic?) constructs, though I think I remember that being a keyword ("REGARDLESS"), perhaps on an I/O statement meant to over-ride or ignore locks - don't recall just now (it's been almost 20 years since I did any serious BASIC coding). > 3) One small but senior set of developers thought GOTO 9999 was > cleaner than GOSUB B9999_NEXT_RECORD Well, we called it iLIOCS: Illogical I/O Control Systems. Guess now you know why. This was at a Waukegan outfit which made glassware (including crystal) engraved with family coats of arms. Ultimately - and somewhat ironically - it was a former iLIOCS person who stuffed that one down the commode rather handily and almost single-handedly. They laid me off in March of '85, when the end was already visible. I was able at one point to write totally "GO TO"-less VAX/DEC BASIC code, though it got a bit hairy at times. One of my favorite "tricks" was to include on the NEXT statement a comment indicating the label I traditionally placed on the matching UNTIL or WHILE: EOF = 0 GET_RECORDS: UNTIL EOF . . . DO_OUTPUT: UNTIL ARRAY_PTR >= ARRAY_MAX . . . NEXT ! DO_OUTPUT . . . NEXT ! GET_RECORDS ... for example. David J Dachtera (formerly dba) DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:51:45 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Immediate:TOLAS Programmer in McHenry, IL - DIRECT CLIENT Requirement Requir Message-ID: <47FC2F41.2C7EBDFC@spam.comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > In article <8f863cb3-193e-4e9c-95e6-79e9a5f34161@u3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > yyyc186 writes: > > On Apr 7, 9:49 pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > wrote: > >> yyyc186 writes: > >> >The billing rate being offered is less than half of what DEC BASIC > >> >coders are getting these days. If someone did bother to bone up, they > >> >wouldn't bother applying for the contract. > >> > >> Just for laughs, what rates are those fools offering? > > I don't know about these particular fools, but SAI People (sp?) > > sputtered $35.00/hr in broken English when they called. > > I'm actually in the market for a new job but even I wouldn't take that. As a salary for a senior person, it sucks, but it might do, depending on the bennies. McHenry is still close enough to the far-fringe of suburban sprawl that you might be able to find affordable housing out that way. As a contract (1099) rate, yeah - it's a royal joke. They'd have to at least double that. If I ever do take another Just-Over-Broke (J-O-B), I couldn't move for under $120K + bennies. However, if push came to shove in today's VMS job market, $73K would help keep someone afloat until something better could be had or made for one's self. David J Dachtera (formerly dba) DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:25:08 GMT From: Hal Kuff Subject: Invoke program on pc? Message-ID: Anyone have examples of a program on an openvms system starting a browser session on a deskop (knowing the ip) and passing a url? Would this be DCOM? Looking for code! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:52:57 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Invoke program on pc? Message-ID: <47fc216f$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Hal Kuff wrote: > Anyone have examples of a program on an openvms system starting a > browser session on a deskop (knowing the ip) and passing a url? > Would this be DCOM? Looking for code! Hopefully that can not be done without something explicit been set up on the PC for it. I think the simple solution would be a small utility on the PC that listen on a socket, accept a connection, verify some username/password and execute the given command. Or find an rexec/rsh server for Windows (it is not built in). Arne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:38:44 GMT From: Michael Austin Subject: Re: Invoke program on pc? Message-ID: Hal Kuff wrote: > Anyone have examples of a program on an openvms system starting a > browser session on a deskop (knowing the ip) and passing a url? > Would this be DCOM? Looking for code! I think that Cygwin has a sshd server where you can use ssh using authorization_keys to execute IE with a URL. Never tried it. Does someone actually need to view the contents of the URL? I could see some monitoring job sent to a workstation in an ops center where that would be useful... Hmmm... (wheels are turning...) Michael Austin http://www.firstdbasource.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 12:48:28 -0600 From: Jim Mehlhop Subject: Msa1000 CLI Configuration Cable Message-ID: <47fbbdfc$0$89386$815e3792@news.qwest.net> anybody have a spare 259992-001 msa1000 config cable they don't need?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:09:18 +0300 From: "Guy Peleg" Subject: Re: New contact details for Guy Peleg Message-ID: "Didier_Toulouse" wrote in message news:75db242c-bc13-426e-bbeb-5c2bd1e8a481@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com... >> Should you find yourself with more business than you can handle, please >> remember your colleagues out here in VMS-land who are still trying to >> feed and house their families from their OpenVMS income. >> >> David J Dachtera >> (formerly dba) DJE Systems > > +1 > :-) > > DTL If you are not afraid of travel contact me offline ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:50:22 +0300 From: "Guy Peleg" Subject: Re: New contact details for Guy Peleg Message-ID: "Didier_Toulouse" wrote in message news:75db242c-bc13-426e-bbeb-5c2bd1e8a481@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com... >> Should you find yourself with more business than you can handle, please >> remember your colleagues out here in VMS-land who are still trying to >> feed and house their families from their OpenVMS income. >> >> David J Dachtera >> (formerly dba) DJE Systems > > +1 > :-) > > DTL If you two have no problems with travel, please contact me offline. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** ------------------------------ Date: 8 Apr 2008 21:38:34 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Message-ID: <6626uqF2hteqqU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Simon Clubley writes: > On 2008-04-07, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >> Within its intended area of usage it is actually an OK language. >> >> It is possible to write quite well structured code using PHP. >> >> PHP' bad reputation comes mostly from the fact that 14 year olds >> can write pretty feature rich web apps in it - and did so. And even >> though the result looked very good for the end user, then programmers >> tasked with maintaining and extending it got a nightmare. >> > > AIUI, it's not so much the fact that it's a easy to use language for > beginners that's the problem, but the fact that it's a easy to use > language with security tacked on afterwards that's the problem. I must be looking in the wrong palces, then. I haven't seen any concept of security either in the original design or "tacked on afterwards". I am amazed that peopple who bitch about the Unix secuity model seem so enamored with crap like PHP and Perl. I work in a school with a graduate program in Software Engineering. It's all based on the supposed model devloped by SEI. I haven't seen anything that even begins to approach the "Software Engineering" we were doing 30 years ago before the term was even foisted on the IT industry. And languages like PHP and Perl are based on a paradigm that is the antithesis of SE. The people using them make the old BASIC programmers look like consumate professionals!! I wonder what Dijkstra would have said about these languages as compared to his "love" of BASIC. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:04:36 +0200 From: "CyberCityNews" Subject: Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Message-ID: <47fbebf4$0$99022$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Didier_Toulouse wrote: >> I'm learning Php, > > Be sure to learn PHP properly: PHP5, OOP, mysqli not mysql (or even > better PDO), DOM not DOM XML, various Pear etc.. > > Arne No thanks. Dweeb. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:54:23 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Message-ID: <47fc21c4$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> CyberCityNews wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Didier_Toulouse wrote: >>> I'm learning Php, >> Be sure to learn PHP properly: PHP5, OOP, mysqli not mysql (or even >> better PDO), DOM not DOM XML, various Pear etc.. > > No thanks. If someone want to learn PHP there are not much point in learning PHP the wrong way. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:56:11 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Message-ID: <47fc2231$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Simon Clubley wrote: > On 2008-04-07, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Within its intended area of usage it is actually an OK language. >> >> It is possible to write quite well structured code using PHP. >> >> PHP' bad reputation comes mostly from the fact that 14 year olds >> can write pretty feature rich web apps in it - and did so. And even >> though the result looked very good for the end user, then programmers >> tasked with maintaining and extending it got a nightmare. > > AIUI, it's not so much the fact that it's a easy to use language for > beginners that's the problem, but the fact that it's a easy to use > language with security tacked on afterwards that's the problem. Security is not a feature in programming languages. Security depends on how the code is written. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:05:10 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Php invented by a former DECcie ? Message-ID: <47fc244e$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > I work in a school with a graduate program in Software Engineering. > It's all based on the supposed model devloped by SEI. I haven't seen > anything that even begins to approach the "Software Engineering" we > were doing 30 years ago before the term was even foisted on the IT > industry. My impression is that software engineering has advances quite a bit the last 20 years. But different universities, different students and different criteria s may explain the difference. > And languages like PHP and Perl are based on a paradigm > that is the antithesis of SE. The people using them make the old > BASIC programmers look like consumate professionals!! I wonder what > Dijkstra would have said about these languages as compared to his > "love" of BASIC. :-) I am not good enough in Perl to comment on that. PHP support well structured procedural and object oriented programming. PHP does not even have a goto statement. I doubt that Dijkstra would have anything bad to say about that. Arne ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.198 ************************