INFO-VAX Sat, 26 Jul 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 412 Contents: Re: Another BIND vulnerability (cache poisoning) Re: Another BIND vulnerability (cache poisoning) Re: DIMM size Re: DIMM size Re: DIMM size TSM on Integrity Re: TSM on Integrity Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:55:27 -0600 From: Mark Berryman Subject: Re: Another BIND vulnerability (cache poisoning) Message-ID: <4889cd42@mvb.saic.com> david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <48899c0b$1@mvb.saic.com>, Mark Berryman writes: >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Mark Berryman wrote: >>> >>>> The level of guessing needed is impractical (and nearly mathmatically >>>> impossible) unless the attacker can cause your DNS server to issue known >>>> queries. It cannot do that unless you don't have recursive query >>>> permissions set correctly. >>> Not so. You visit some web site which causes your DNS server to resolve >>> some host names. The DNS server at the other end then responds with >>> additional data that loads the cache with www.google.com pointing to >>> www.yahoo.com >> Nope. No DNS server released in, oh the past 10 years or so, will >> accept any data in the "additional data" section of a reply that does >> not match the domain of the original query. This is a bug that was >> discovered around 1995 or so and fixed long since. >> >> (Microsoft may be an exception to this. Their DNS server is broken in >> so many ways that I have never used it or checked its security bona >> fides. The Internet reference server, which comes from ISC, does work >> this way). >> >>> This isn't a case of some hacker attacking your DNS server. It is a case >>> of your DNS server receiving corrupt responses because it is easy to >>> guess the transaction ID once you've already received a transaction and >>> you know it uses the same port to listen all the time. >> You can't force the DNS server to send a transaction to you so you can >> look at its transaction ID (which is already random and not easily >> guessed) unless the DNS server is not properly configured. And there is >> a lot more to sending a bogus response than just knowing the transaction ID. >> >> Mark Berryman > > Mark, > > As the SAN's article > > http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?date=2008-07-25 > > says your DNS systems which are setup to be recursive for your internal users > are vulnerable via code downloaded from websites your users visit or from > code on infected systems in your organisation eg botnet members. That particular attack works like this: Say you want to redirect people from Google to your nefarious site: The steps are as follows: 1. Trick someone into fetching a web page from a site you have already hacked. This site contains img tags that attempt to open aaaaa.google.com. It continues sequentially in this manner, from aaaaa.google.com to zzzzz.google.com. Simultaneously, the attacker must know what DNS server the web client is using and it is attempting to flood that web server with bogus answers to these queries, hoping to beat the real answers from Google. The malicious web page must pass all of the security checks that are on the victimized web client and the victimized web client must be configured to run javascript from untrusted sources. 2. The bogus packets contain an answer for www.google.com in the additional information section. Because it matches the same domain as the original query (aaaaa.google.com) it passes the bailiwick test and gets accepted. In theory. 3. The attacker must know which query the host is currently making. The attacker must also know the transaction ID (and, with the patch, the source UDP port). The only way for the attacker to know the query is for the web page the victimized host loaded to tell it. This is a lot of traffic that is not only detectable with IDS but also slows down the attack. The attacker has to guess the transaction ID (and the source port with the patch). The idiot user who got tricked has to stay on the web page while the attack takes place. 4. The attacker is now flooding the DNS server with various answers hoping that one of them will not only match the necessary criteria but that it will beat the real answer. The firewall that the DNS server is behind (which includes IDS) detects this flood and sends an alert and starts blocking it. 5. The victimized host is now flooding the DNS server with queries. The DNS server detects this and blocks the host. 6. Because other domains have sometimes misconfigured themselves, and end up sending out incorrect data for their domains for a short period of time, our DNS servers are configured to severely limit the amount of time an answer can stay in cache. That way, bogus answers stop being used fairly quickly. So, as you can see, properly configuring your DNS setup makes it really really difficult to poison the cache. However, this little issue does make a good argument for getting rid of windows on your network. Of all of the DNS clients on our network, windows is the only one that requires a recursive DNS server since it uses a stub resolver that can't do the recursion itself. Non-recursive servers are not vulnerable to this attack. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:37:39 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Another BIND vulnerability (cache poisoning) Message-ID: Mark Berryman wrote: > david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article <48899c0b$1@mvb.saic.com>, Mark Berryman >> writes: >>> JF Mezei wrote: >>>> Mark Berryman wrote: >>>> >>>>> The level of guessing needed is impractical (and nearly >>>>> mathmatically impossible) unless the attacker can cause your DNS >>>>> server to issue known queries. It cannot do that unless you don't >>>>> have recursive query permissions set correctly. >>>> Not so. You visit some web site which causes your DNS server to resolve >>>> some host names. The DNS server at the other end then responds with >>>> additional data that loads the cache with www.google.com pointing to >>>> www.yahoo.com >>> Nope. No DNS server released in, oh the past 10 years or so, will >>> accept any data in the "additional data" section of a reply that does >>> not match the domain of the original query. This is a bug that was >>> discovered around 1995 or so and fixed long since. >>> >>> (Microsoft may be an exception to this. Their DNS server is broken >>> in so many ways that I have never used it or checked its security >>> bona fides. The Internet reference server, which comes from ISC, >>> does work this way). >>> >>>> This isn't a case of some hacker attacking your DNS server. It is a >>>> case >>>> of your DNS server receiving corrupt responses because it is easy to >>>> guess the transaction ID once you've already received a transaction and >>>> you know it uses the same port to listen all the time. >>> You can't force the DNS server to send a transaction to you so you >>> can look at its transaction ID (which is already random and not >>> easily guessed) unless the DNS server is not properly configured. >>> And there is a lot more to sending a bogus response than just knowing >>> the transaction ID. >>> >>> Mark Berryman >> >> Mark, >> >> As the SAN's article >> http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?date=2008-07-25 >> >> says your DNS systems which are setup to be recursive for your >> internal users are vulnerable via code downloaded from websites your >> users visit or from code on infected systems in your organisation eg >> botnet members. > > That particular attack works like this: > > Say you want to redirect people from Google to your nefarious site: > > The steps are as follows: > > 1. Trick someone into fetching a web page from a site you have already > hacked. This site contains img tags that attempt to open > aaaaa.google.com. It continues sequentially in this manner, from > aaaaa.google.com to zzzzz.google.com. Simultaneously, the attacker must > know what DNS server the web client is using and it is attempting to > flood that web server with bogus answers to these queries, hoping to > beat the real answers from Google. The malicious web page must pass all > of the security checks that are on the victimized web client and the > victimized web client must be configured to run javascript from > untrusted sources. > > 2. The bogus packets contain an answer for www.google.com in the > additional information section. Because it matches the same domain as > the original query (aaaaa.google.com) it passes the bailiwick test and > gets accepted. In theory. > > 3. The attacker must know which query the host is currently making. The > attacker must also know the transaction ID (and, with the patch, the > source UDP port). The only way for the attacker to know the query is > for the web page the victimized host loaded to tell it. This is a lot > of traffic that is not only detectable with IDS but also slows down the > attack. The attacker has to guess the transaction ID (and the source > port with the patch). The idiot user who got tricked has to stay on the > web page while the attack takes place. > > 4. The attacker is now flooding the DNS server with various answers > hoping that one of them will not only match the necessary criteria but > that it will beat the real answer. The firewall that the DNS server is > behind (which includes IDS) detects this flood and sends an alert and > starts blocking it. > > 5. The victimized host is now flooding the DNS server with queries. The > DNS server detects this and blocks the host. > > 6. Because other domains have sometimes misconfigured themselves, and > end up sending out incorrect data for their domains for a short period > of time, our DNS servers are configured to severely limit the amount of > time an answer can stay in cache. That way, bogus answers stop being > used fairly quickly. > > So, as you can see, properly configuring your DNS setup makes it really > really difficult to poison the cache. However, this little issue does > make a good argument for getting rid of windows on your network. Of all > of the DNS clients on our network, windows is the only one that requires > a recursive DNS server since it uses a stub resolver that can't do the > recursion itself. Non-recursive servers are not vulnerable to this attack. Now, exactly *what* part of TCPIP on VMS is it that "needs" a patch ? Is when/if the VMS systems is set up to act as a DNS/BIND *server* ? Or is it something in the DNS/BIND *resolver* ? I'm failing to see how this is a major problem for my VMS systems, at least... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:24:27 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: DIMM size Message-ID: <488a60ab$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> On 25 Jul, 00:42, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: >>> James J. O'Shea wrote: >>>> I know SHO MEM gives me the total memory, but is there >>>> a command from VMS that will give me the size of the >>>> DIMMs? Thanks, >>> Why don't you just skin the box and look? That will tell you both >>> what's installed, and how many sockets are available to add more. >>> >>> If you want to buy memory, tell the vendor the make/model of the box and >>> how many MB/GB you want. The owners manual for the box will frequently >>> tell you what kind of memory it uses. >> >> Perhaps because you have to be in front of the box to take covers off >> and, in some cases, the box will go down if you remove the covers? An >> rx2660 will just pump the fans up. An AlphaServer 1000A will power >> down if you take the top cover off... > > I don't see why that is a problem. After all, when you install the > additional memory, you will have to power down and remove the cover. . . . He is probably looking for the info to find out if he can put more memory in it and how much. Unless the supplier has a very good return policy, then buying first and check when putting it in is a bit optimistic. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:34:36 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: DIMM size Message-ID: Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >>> On 25 Jul, 00:42, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: >>>> James J. O'Shea wrote: >>>>> I know SHO MEM gives me the total memory, but is there >>>>> a command from VMS that will give me the size of the >>>>> DIMMs? Thanks, >>>> Why don't you just skin the box and look? That will tell you both >>>> what's installed, and how many sockets are available to add more. >>>> >>>> If you want to buy memory, tell the vendor the make/model of the box >>>> and >>>> how many MB/GB you want. The owners manual for the box will frequently >>>> tell you what kind of memory it uses. >>> >>> Perhaps because you have to be in front of the box to take covers off >>> and, in some cases, the box will go down if you remove the covers? An >>> rx2660 will just pump the fans up. An AlphaServer 1000A will power >>> down if you take the top cover off... >> >> I don't see why that is a problem. After all, when you install the >> additional memory, you will have to power down and remove the cover. . >> . . > > He is probably looking for the info to find out if he can put > more memory in it and how much. > If so, the OP might get better answers by asking better questions! AFAIK the only completely reliable way to learn what's in the box is to power off, skin the box, and look. And that is only reliable if you know what you are looking at. FWIW, DEC usually tried to fill all the memory slots so 64 MB would take four 16MB SIMMS/DIMMS or whatever. This helped to ensure that you spent the maximum amount to upgrade your memory; you had to throw away four 16MB SIMMs/DIMMs and replace them with 32 MB or 64 MB parts. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jul 2008 00:33:29 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DIMM size Message-ID: <488a70d9$0$20932$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>> etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >>>> On 25 Jul, 00:42, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: >>>>> James J. O'Shea wrote: >>>>>> I know SHO MEM gives me the total memory, but is there >>>>>> a command from VMS that will give me the size of the >>>>>> DIMMs? Thanks, >>>>> Why don't you just skin the box and look? That will tell you both >>>>> what's installed, and how many sockets are available to add more. >>>>> >>>>> If you want to buy memory, tell the vendor the make/model of the box >>>>> and >>>>> how many MB/GB you want. The owners manual for the box will frequently >>>>> tell you what kind of memory it uses. >>>> >>>> Perhaps because you have to be in front of the box to take covers off >>>> and, in some cases, the box will go down if you remove the covers? An >>>> rx2660 will just pump the fans up. An AlphaServer 1000A will power >>>> down if you take the top cover off... >>> >>> I don't see why that is a problem. After all, when you install the >>> additional memory, you will have to power down and remove the cover. . >>> . . >> >> He is probably looking for the info to find out if he can put >> more memory in it and how much. >> > >If so, the OP might get better answers by asking better questions! > >AFAIK the only completely reliable way to learn what's in the box is to >power off, skin the box, and look. And that is only reliable if you >know what you are looking at. > >FWIW, DEC usually tried to fill all the memory slots so 64 MB would take >four 16MB SIMMS/DIMMS or whatever. This helped to ensure that you spent > the maximum amount to upgrade your memory; you had to throw away four >16MB SIMMs/DIMMs and replace them with 32 MB or 64 MB parts. Not just DEC. Apple do it too. In addition, every laptop I've gotten my hands on recently required tossing out the current memory to upgrade to more (ie. 2x 512MB out, 2x 1GB in...). Some money can be recovered by selling the old memory. Ebay is great for pawning off your old and unneeded SIMMs/DIMMs/etc. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:23:58 -0700 (PDT) From: tdirven@volvocars.com Subject: TSM on Integrity Message-ID: <830ef181-1f6a-424e-9a34-97a33d5f5d82@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Has anyone TSM (Terminal Server Manager) running on OpenVMS Integrity server? Where can I download this software for Integrity? Regards, Toine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:20:58 -0500 From: Subject: Re: TSM on Integrity Message-ID: wrote in message news:830ef181-1f6a-424e-9a34-97a33d5f5d82@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > Has anyone TSM (Terminal Server Manager) running on OpenVMS Integrity > server? > Where can I download this software for Integrity? > You can't. You can run it through the translator and it works fine. Shael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:42:16 -0700 From: Malcolm Dunnett Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: <488a1e8b@flight> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > I've purchased some wonderful "keep the business going" items from eBay > over the years. I don't believe it's a time-waster or for the life-chal- > lenged. > I'm pretty much running the entire University administration (except for email which went to Exchange some years ago) on VMS using eBay purchased gear (ES45s, ES40s, rx2600/zx6000s, a bunch of MSA1000/1500s and associated disks, etc ). Most of it purchased for about 5-10% of the original list price. Licensing courtesy of CSLG and OpenVMS Edu program. The zx6000 isn't officially supported for VMS, but it's really just an rx2600 with a different label and it makes a really sweet VMS system (especially the 1.5Ghz versions) All the real capital funding goes into desktop PCs :-( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:17:53 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> In article , "Richard Maher" writes: >>>> Hi Malcolm, >>>> >>>>> If "decent" can go up to $400-600 (ie the cost of a cheap PC) >>>>> then there are usually a couple of zx6000 workstations on sale >>>>> on eBay on any given day. (There's a couple right now: one at >>>>> $525 ($625 buy it now) with dual 1.5Ghz, 4GB and 73GB disk and >>>>> one with dual 900Mhz, 4gb and 73gb disk for $449 or best offer - he's >>>>> got 10 of them, I bet he'd accept an offer of under $400). >>>> Sounds great! >>>> >>>> Not being eBay literate/savy/interested and not having PayPal-stuff (or a >>>> face-book or any other bollocks time-waster for the life-challenged) I can >>> I've purchased some wonderful "keep the business going" items from eBay >>> over the years. I don't believe it's a time-waster or for the life-chal- >>> lenged. >>> >> At my last job, I was able to upgrade the disk farm from the old >> StorageWorks (RZ26, RZ28) to the newer RZ29 (4GB) and 9GB and 18GB >> drives. I also picked up some StorageWorks (Blue) shelves dirt cheap! >> I got that hardware for about ten cents on the dollar! Thanks eBay! >> >> Instead of hearing "I need 4GB of disk space" and being forced to reply, >> "I'm sorry, I don't have 4GB to give you", I just bought bigger disks on >> eBay. > > I have a terabyte or more in RZ29s in the garage if they really truly want > a 4.3 GB spindle. ;) > > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright > notice, disclaimer and quotations. Once upon a time 4 GB was a lot of disk. I think that in days of yore, VMS could be installed in 50 MB. That left little or no space for users but you could shoe horn the O/S into it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:23:06 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <4889e6d1$0$5004$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> I have a terabyte or more in RZ29s in the garage if they really truly want >> a 4.3 GB spindle. ;) > > Will those things talk narrow SCSI? My hobbyist spindles tend to be > 2G and under. I'm stuck using the system disk in my DS10L for new > storage. ISTR that the RZ29 came in both flavors, RZ29-VA (narrow) and RZ29-VW (wide). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:33:25 -0700 (PDT) From: FrankS Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: On Jul 25, 10:44=A0am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > I have a terabyte or more in RZ29s in the garage if they really truly wan= t > a 4.3 GB spindle. ;) Somebody recently bought a used RZ28M-VA (2gb) on eBay and paid $29.99 + $12.00 shipping. Go figure. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:38:23 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: FrankS wrote: > On Jul 25, 10:44 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> I have a terabyte or more in RZ29s in the garage if they really truly want >> a 4.3 GB spindle. ;) > > Somebody recently bought a used RZ28M-VA (2gb) on eBay and paid $29.99 > + $12.00 shipping. > > Go figure. It's not too bad, especially if an RZ28M-VA was exactly what he needed. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 2008 23:46:30 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: <488a65d6$0$20922$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , FrankS writes: >On Jul 25, 10:44=A0am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> I have a terabyte or more in RZ29s in the garage if they really truly wan= >t >> a 4.3 GB spindle. ;) > >Somebody recently bought a used RZ28M-VA (2gb) on eBay and paid $29.99 >+ $12.00 shipping. Wow! If I could sell my terabyte at that: ~250 disks * $30/disk = $7500. Won't even pay my attorney fees. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:15:35 -0500 From: Michael Austin Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: <%Quik.18560$Ri.13381@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , FrankS writes: >> On Jul 25, 10:44=A0am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> I have a terabyte or more in RZ29s in the garage if they really truly wan= >> t >>> a 4.3 GB spindle. ;) >> Somebody recently bought a used RZ28M-VA (2gb) on eBay and paid $29.99 >> + $12.00 shipping. > > Wow! If I could sell my terabyte at that: ~250 disks * $30/disk = $7500. > Won't even pay my attorney fees. Maybe not, but it is better than $0.00 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:29:46 -0500 From: Michael Austin Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > nolanh@ymail.com wrote: >> I currently use vms just by using telnet but I would like to have a >> vaxstation of my own , does anyone know were I cant get my own for a >> decent price. > > The good ones are not cheap! DEC made a VAXstation I, VAXstation II, > VAXstation 2000, VAXstation 3100, VAXstation 4000/VLC, 4000-60, > 4000-90, 4000/90A. That list is, more or less, in increasing order of > desirability and cost. The newest of them is at least nine or ten years > old now. They were good machines in their day but their day is long > gone! If I've missed a few models, I'm sure someone will pop up and > name them! Some of these may not be supported under current versions of > VMS!! > > I would keep an eye on e-Bay, Craig's List, and other "for sale" sites > and lists. > > > Then there was the dual-cpu FireFox (MVIII chip in a MVII wide pedestal) VAXstation 3520 Graphics Workstation (FireFox) - VS60S\VS620 and the graphics were very nice at the time (circa 1989?) and Mid-80's there was the VAXstation 8000 (aka Lynx - c. 1986)- co-developed by Evans & Sutherland/DEC and used an SGR Graphics Library. Last time I saw one - they were doing the true 360degree rotation plus lighting and a whole bunch of other stuff. It was at an Orthopedic Dr's office and they used it in conjunction with the early CTscan machines to do exact measurements of pelvis bones- make a exact duplicate and operate on the patient one time. Prior to this thing, for a hip or pelvis replacement, they had to operate, take the measurements, close up the patient and have the prosthesis made, then operate again and hope that it fit... or they start the process all over again... found this The installation guide: http://deathrow.vistech.net/~cvisors/DEC94MDS/vs800ig1.txt SPD: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP25D8/SP25D8PF.PDF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:51:37 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Were can I buy a cheap vaxstation Message-ID: Hi Brian, > I've purchased some wonderful "keep the business going" items from eBay > over the years. I don't believe it's a time-waster or for the life-chal- > lenged. I have to admit that, soon after writing my post, the thought did cross my mind that your average ebay user may smile at the irony of such a comment appearing in a clapped-out newsgroup for a has-been OS :-) As far as life-challenged goes, comparitively speaking, they're living on the edge! Note that I personally don't think VMS has achieved "has-been" status or that this newsgroup is anything but the interaction-hub of a thriving and engaged development-community, but the perceptions of the world at large are a different story. Cheers Richard Maher PS. If anyone has experience of paying for shipping similar boxes long distances and having it still working at the other end then please let me know. wrote in message news:4889bc1d$0$20906$607ed4bc@cv.net... > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > >Hi Malcolm, > > > >> If "decent" can go up to $400-600 (ie the cost of a cheap PC) > >> then there are usually a couple of zx6000 workstations on sale > >> on eBay on any given day. (There's a couple right now: one at > >> $525 ($625 buy it now) with dual 1.5Ghz, 4GB and 73GB disk and > >> one with dual 900Mhz, 4gb and 73gb disk for $449 or best offer - he's > >> got 10 of them, I bet he'd accept an offer of under $400). > > > >Sounds great! > > > >Not being eBay literate/savy/interested and not having PayPal-stuff (or a > >face-book or any other bollocks time-waster for the life-challenged) I can > > I've purchased some wonderful "keep the business going" items from eBay > over the years. I don't believe it's a time-waster or for the life-chal- > lenged. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright > notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.412 ************************