INFO-VAX Sat, 13 Sep 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 502 Contents: Re: Charon-VAX "upgrade" (was DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS) Re: How do I diagnose a server that crashes every night? HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Re: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Re: Intermittent RWSCS state Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: SCSI controller question Re: SCSI controller question Re: Spinning down an old disk array Re: Spinning down an old disk array Re: Spinning down an old disk array Re: Spinning down an old disk array ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:14:38 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Charon-VAX "upgrade" (was DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS) Message-ID: <48cab190$0$31703$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> on 4-9-2008 6:05 Tom Linden wrote... > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html > > Of course, if you don't have it under maintenance I suppose it might > not be necessary, at least it would never be apparent. Sorry been (put) away for a while. This issue has been beaten to death before: With CHARON(-VAX,-AXP) you use your existing VMS license. HP will allow you to transfer this to the CHARON instance provided you slip'em the $$ associated with the so called Transfer License. This is all arranged so you do not violate the terms of your original license, where the fine print says you only may run it on the VAX of Alpha that it came with. As an additional item, any SW maintenance contracts remain valid, although getting new bugs recognized and fixed requires you to reproduce them on a *real* VAX/Alpha. /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:03:24 -0500 From: Michael Austin Subject: Re: How do I diagnose a server that crashes every night? Message-ID: Simon Clubley wrote: > In article <9074c354-2557-4638-961e-7860857e3485@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: >> str8, >> >> I should note that it is also possible that the Machine Check and the >> active process are, in effect, not related. >> >> The last client system that was having machine checks turned out to be >> caused by an erratic power supply. The power supply worked well when >> it was working, but it was apparently having problems. The fact that >> the system in question would appear to be in a somewhat industrial >> setting raises the question of whether there is an external power or >> grounding event that is the underlying cause of the Machine Check. >> >> If there is a UPS involved, there could also be a problem there. >> > > The OP should also be aware that although a machine check is usually a > hardware issue, it can be caused by a faulty device driver as well. > > Personal experience here: I have caused VMS to issue machine checks while > I have been developing VMS device drivers in the past. > > Simon. > While I would agree that one can cause MCHK with a device driver, on a system that has been in use for years without change (as stated by the OP), I would have to say that it is either a PS or possibly memory. I would check the logfiles for ECC errors as well. Not having access to the full error logs, diagnosing will be an exercise in divination. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:09:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "winston19842005@yahoo.com" Subject: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Message-ID: <0c92af3d-31d2-4b97-bfa6-9eac5e170f02@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> http://tinyurl.com/3ga2ao I already added a comment saying I hope they will market VMS to the desktop. Anyone else here care to add a comment? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:05:37 -0500 From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Message-ID: In article <0c92af3d-31d2-4b97-bfa6-9eac5e170f02@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>, winston19842005@yahoo.com wrote: >http://tinyurl.com/3ga2ao > >I already added a comment saying I hope they will market VMS to the >desktop. Anyone else here care to add a comment? OK, thanks Alan - I seen my duty and I done it! Anyone else? DJD?? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:33:31 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Intermittent RWSCS state Message-ID: <48cad299$0$12384$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Am having problem with IMAP server. This runs on a node that has direct access to all the necesasry disks. So no clustering features should be needed, right ? SHOW SYS reveals it is in RWSCS state. (everytime I do show sys). But SHOW PROC/CONT never shows it in RWSCS. It does show it in MWAIT as well as normal COM/HIB/LEF states. This is alpha VMS 8.3 The process serves about 200 message headers then dies. The client then restarts at message 1. Perhaps some message at the end which causes imap to crash, and the client then restarts to download the messages database from sratch. However, it is interesting to see the discrepency between SHOW SYS and SHOW PROC/CONT in terms of process status. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:47:10 -0400 From: "Steven Underwood" Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: "Ken Robinson" wrote in message news:7dd80f60809120434n23d0c1bfu3df6a2e9a6b95e5b@mail.gmail.com... > See this site: > > http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/ > > Ken I like this one - live webcam: http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:47:07 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <48caffd3$0$9634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Brad Hamilton wrote: > I wonder what would happen in the Velodrome if they introduced a Lance > Armstrong going round and round in the opposite direction, and the two of you > collided? Have you considered switching carreers and becoming a fortune teller ? The wheels will absorb most of the energy, not only because of the tires, but the rims will deform, absorbing mch energy. After that, the bikes will move sideways, and the riders fall to the ground. Now, I have to unpack the groceries from my backpack to see if the eggs survived this collision. (in my case, it was from the back, it it wasn't a bike... had to walk home carrying the bike because the rear wheel won't spin anymore due to the amount of energy it absorbed in the collision. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:11:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Len Whitwer Subject: Re: SCSI controller question Message-ID: On Sep 12, 8:02=A0am, s...@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: H Vlems > > > What is the difference between a KZPCM-DA and a KZPCM-DX? > > =A0 =A0I believe that -%A is factory-installed, -%X is field-installed. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > =A0 =A0Steven M. Schweda =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 sms@antinode-info > =A0 =A0382 South Warwick Street =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(+1) 651-699-9818 > =A0 =A0Saint Paul =A0MN =A055105-2547 They are indeed the SAME thing. One is a sales part number (KZPCM-DA) and the other is the part number used on the lable that is stuck on the board. If you need any of these we have plies in stock. Len -Len Whitwer Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc. 19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100 Woodinville, WA 98072 e-mail mailto:len@psds.com Internet: http://www.psds.com Toll Free: (866)857-0710 Tel: (425) 488-0710 Fax: (425) 488-6414 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:58:47 +0200 From: "H Vlems" Subject: Re: SCSI controller question Message-ID: <48cac9f6$0$32524$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl> "Steven M. Schweda" schreef in bericht news:08091210021135_20202860@antinode.info... > From: H Vlems > >> What is the difference between a KZPCM-DA and a KZPCM-DX? > > I believe that -%A is factory-installed, -%X is field-installed. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 OK, that makes me feel better. I just bought one off eBay. I was worried that the -DA version was limited to Windows NT. Hans ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:42:21 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Spinning down an old disk array Message-ID: <48cac674$0$9668$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> FWIW: Back when I ran my all mighty Microvax II on RD54, I was concerned about its age. But the RD54 never quit. But I was given an RD53 and I connected it and it worked. It started to log a few errors. So I shutdown the system to check connectiosn etc, and when I restarted it, the RD53 started to spin up, but never accelereated to normal speed. (the way I saw it, it was like when a jet aircraft starts an engine, the engine starts to spin from the starter, but it is only once they apply the fuel and ignite it that it *really* starts to spin up. That disk was like in "starter" mode and didn't ignite... But for a newer generation SCSI disk (250meg), it had come off an old mac. It started to log errors while running. Not sure if it was the motor failing or the heads/surface. In the case of a disk array, my concern would be with regards to power. If you are goin to power up the whole thing, does it have logic to sequentially power up drives, or would they all get their power at the same time ? Are they set to spin up automatically, or await a spin up command from the SCSI bus ? If you could power up the drives one after the other, it might be better because of less strain on the power supply and each drive would then not see as big of a power spike. You could also more easily see which drive is spinning up and which isn't. If they have been running for that long without many interruptions and in good environment (temperature not too hot) I woudln't be *too* worried about then not spinning up. Would starting those disks while still warm be easier ? I am thinking if there is any oil in the motor, bearings whatever, old oil might seize if allowed to cool down and offer more resistance to a power up, whereas if still warm, it would still be fluid ? Would that be a concern, or is that totally offbase ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:20:49 +0200 From: "H Vlems" Subject: Re: Spinning down an old disk array Message-ID: <48cacf1f$0$32747$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl> "JF Mezei" schreef in bericht news:48cac674$0$9668$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > FWIW: > > Back when I ran my all mighty Microvax II on RD54, I was concerned about > its age. But the RD54 never quit. But I was given an RD53 and I > connected it and it worked. It started to log a few errors. So I > shutdown the system to check connectiosn etc, and when I restarted it, > the RD53 started to spin up, but never accelereated to normal speed. > (the way I saw it, it was like when a jet aircraft starts an engine, the > engine starts to spin from the starter, but it is only once they apply > the fuel and ignite it that it *really* starts to spin up. That disk was > like in "starter" mode and didn't ignite... > JF, the RD54 and RD53 (Maxtor disks IIRC) and both models have short lifespans, say 12 to 14 years when used (switched on) most of the time. Possibly Maxtor designed these disks for a much shorter MTBF, no idea. But SCSI devices tend to live a lot longer. > > But for a newer generation SCSI disk (250meg), it had come off an old > mac. It started to log errors while running. Not sure if it was the > motor failing or the heads/surface. > Motor and bearing failures are noticable, sudden loud noise usually hight pitched is a bad sign. Though I have a couple of Barracuda's that scream as if tortured but otherwise perform well and errorfree. > > In the case of a disk array, my concern would be with regards to power. > If you are goin to power up the whole thing, does it have logic to > sequentially power up drives, or would they all get their power at the > same time ? Are they set to spin up automatically, or await a spin up > command from the SCSI bus ? > You're referring to power surges at startup time, right? I'm sure the effect is there but these disks are no RA81's :-) Besides those disks were wired to start up sequentially otherwise they'd blow a fuse. > If you could power up the drives one after the other, it might be better > because of less strain on the power supply and each drive would then > not see as big of a power spike. You could also more easily see which > drive is spinning up and which isn't. > You've got a point here, unless the diskbays have dual power supplies. > If they have been running for that long without many interruptions and > in good environment (temperature not too hot) I woudln't be *too* > worried about then not spinning up. > > Would starting those disks while still warm be easier ? I am thinking if > there is any oil in the motor, bearings whatever, old oil might seize if > allowed to cool down and offer more resistance to a power up, whereas if > still warm, it would still be fluid ? Would that be a concern, or is > that totally offbase ? The heads are parked in a landing zone. Which may be a very rarely used location. Once the heads are there they may get stuck in that position. The motor bearing(s) would worry me. When the disk bearing was perpendicular to gravity (disk on its side) the low side of the bearing would wear out a little more that the topside. When shutdown and power off, the bearing cools down and the metal will shrink (very little but will be there). The spindle might get stuck in the worn out bearing and never spin up again. After a short while I guess the motor will burn out. Hans ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:18:55 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Spinning down an old disk array Message-ID: John Reagan wrote: > "Peter Weaver" wrote in message > news:e97191b9-77c7-4620-8f85-276279907ba5@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > >> Does anyone have any experience with turning off the power on disks >> that have been running for years? What percentage of disks should we >> expect to have fail after; >> - a few seconds >> - a few minutes >> - 10 minutes >> - 15 minutes > > I have 4 pair of HSZ70s with various blue bricks inside (9GB, 18GB, 36GB, 96 > drives total). Power cycles (minutes to days) haven't been a problem. > Still keep current backups and some drives are mirrored on the controller. > > I recently had to move them to another site (pushed down the hallway, into > an elevator, onto a truck, driven lets say 48 miles to another state, back > off the truck and into their new location). 96 drives in total, 2 died at > the other end (1 9GB drive and 1 18GB drive). We restored the backups from > tape. > > I did try to "thermal cycle" the bad drives that wouldn't spin/mount. I > sealed them into a plastic bag and put them in the freezer overnight [it has > worked for me in the past]. One actually tried to spin up for only for > about 30 seconds. Not long enough to mount/copy any files. > > I'll guess the drives died not from turning them off, but the vibration of > the move. > > John > > If you had packed the drives in containers similar to those they were shipped to you in, they all would probably survived the trip. That sponge rubber cradle would absorb a lot of shock and vibration! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:58:06 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Spinning down an old disk array Message-ID: <08091216580634_20202860@antinode.info> From: "H Vlems" > [...] the RD54 and RD53 (Maxtor disks IIRC) [...] The RD54 was a Maxtor XT-2190. The RD53 was a Micropolis 1325 or 1335. My experience suggests that the Maxtor drives lived longer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.502 ************************