INFO-VAX Fri, 03 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 533 Contents: Digital & VMS live on YouTube Re: Elvis is dead - get over it! (was: Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test Re: Login.template silly problem... Re: Login.template silly problem... Martin Fink Webcast - Blades in a Mission Critical Computing Environment Enviro Re: MicroVAX model 3100 on 208V 3-phase power Re: MicroVAX model 3100 on 208V 3-phase power Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: OT: USA the fleecing of USA banks by Wall Street Re: OT: USA the fleecing of USA banks by Wall Street Re: OT: USA the fleecing of USA banks by Wall Street Re: USB device development on DS10 via Belkin f5U220 - OpenVMS 8.3 with 7.3-1 SR Re: USB device development on DS10 via Belkin f5U220 - OpenVMS 8.3 with 7.3-1 SR Re: What is a process' current WSxxxxx quotas ? Re: What is a process' current WSxxxxx quotas ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:33:38 -0400 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Digital & VMS live on YouTube Message-ID: <7dd80f60810021733w338a7357w2fcd2a2873a30e04@mail.gmail.com> I found this interesting video on YouTube.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccenszwRl6Y See how many people you can recognize! Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 06:48:28 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Elvis is dead - get over it! (was: Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test Message-ID: Hi David, > Unfortunately this is the same mentallity which lost VMS all the database > applications by insisting that VMS was just for the backend database. Which "database applications"? And how does being "just for the backend database" lose dtabase applications? > And then lost the backend databases because most companies wanted to run the > backend and application layers on the same OS even if on separate machines. Again, a couple of examples would be useful? Personally I have not seen that many bigoted companies. (Sorry, I have seen the "get rid of VMS" ones just not many "Well it can stay if we *only* have VMS".) > Also porting SeaMonkey or other desktop applications will undoubtedly involve > porting various supporting applications and libraries which will aid others in > porting other Unix applications. Look, I'm not sure if everyone is deliberately missing the point or whether you just don't get it. VMS development has finite dollars and every project has an opportunity cost on another, potentially far more worthy, rival. I would love all the software in the world to run on VMS! I'd love Donkey Kong and Super Mario (showing my age :-) or FaceBook to be there so Operations and System Management would have something to do while they're "Monitoring". I just don't think we're gonna sell more VMS boxes, or hang on to the customers we have by eliminating the need for System Management to have to FTP something over from a Windows or *nix box! Do you? Until the self-serving low-life that are making these funding decisions are *made* to disclose the number of customers that are being forced of VMS due to no support for their existing (and future) 3GL applications then sadly nothing is gonna change :-( Still 400,000 then eh? Once again, please ask yourself how many sites will have end-users (yes business users) that will be running this new VMS Browser? Then ask yourself what percentage of the installed base has these same end-users accessing 3GL code and Rdb/RMS/Orrible data on their VMS Boxes (but not for much longer as they're sick of being kicked in the teeth while those wankers come up with VMS for the iPhone) Go one, try to webify your VMS/3GL application with the "solution(s)" proffered by VMS Middle Management! Forget that, just try to put a GUI on your 3GL code in 2009! No? They're just legacy customers that don't matter (unless we can use 'em as an excuse to snatch a few more license-payer dollars)? Welcome to the IMM team :-( Maybe no users have PCs on their desks where you guys come from? I've been at 3 Telcos, a couple of banks, local govt, retail, and all in 4 different countries and funnily enough, I haven't seen one end-user or business-steak-holder or prchasing officer that's gonna give a shit that some System Manager doesn't have to FTP something to their VMS box! Cheers Richard Maher wrote in message news:gbvn9e$ar9$1@south.jnrs.ja.net... > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > >Hi, > > > >> My primary desktop at home is an Alpha PWS. I also want an up to date > >> browser. > > > >How about an up to date Word Processor? Spread Sheet? Calendar? > > > >Should HP Middle Management pour the money into OpenOffice or just let you > >go for Google with your new Up to Date browser? > > > >Should we go for the volume market of placating WunderGreis VMS System > >Managers so that they don't have to sully their desks with one of those > >nasty little PCs or Macs? Or will *anyone* say "Hold on! What software is > >actually running on the VMS servers that these guys manage?" And is it not > >more important to keep that software on VMS then to port over a whole lot of > >crap so as to make the challenging job of "Monitoring" easier? > > > >Please give me the demographic of any company's staff that will be browsing, > >word-processing, and mailing with VMS! > > > >Then tell me how many of them access 3GL code and data hosted on VMS servers > >on a daily basis. (And are soon to cease doing so as HP/VMS management have > >given them no viable GUI or Web upgrade path :-( ) > > > > Richard, > > Unfortunately this is the same mentallity which lost VMS all the database > applications by insisting that VMS was just for the backend database. > And then lost the backend databases because most companies wanted to run the > backend and application layers on the same OS even if on separate machines. > > Also porting SeaMonkey or other desktop applications will undoubtedly involve > porting various supporting applications and libraries which will aid others in > porting other Unix applications. > > > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > > > > > >Regards Richard Maher > > > > > >"Rich Jordan" wrote in message > >news:6ea70f99-2b0d-4a60-93b4-064fddc18a19@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com... > >On Sep 30, 7:31 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > >Koehler) wrote: > >> In article , "Tom Linden" > > writes: > >> > >> > Why on earth would VMS engr spend the resources to do this, I mean who > >> > really > >> > gives a tinkers damn? > >> > >> I do. I browse from VMS on a regular basis, without fear of some > >> web site attacking me via IE loopholes. > > > >My primary desktop at home is an Alpha PWS. I also want an up to date > >browser. At some point my VAXstation at work may no longer meet needs > >and get replaced, probably by an XP1000 or DS10, at which point I'll > >want a browser on it for work. > > > >Alphas have two major advantages right now for that task (over > >itaniums). They are more available (hobbyist side, and to be fair, > >also at work with real licenses) due to cost and 'hand me downs' from > >ugprades, and they are much more amenable to use in an office > >environment. Itaniums are bloody noisy and hot, even with the 'office > >friendly' kits. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:19:23 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: Login.template silly problem... Message-ID: Brad Hamilton schrieb: > As of V8.3, SHUTDOWN from TELNET and SSH work fine; I haven't attempted it from > X11, but I will believe that it works. > > I don't know when the change took place, but once I was told of the change, I > tried it , and it worked. > [...] I believe a DECWindows session under a privileged account can do a shutdown. What I had in mind was my usual situation: From a session under my nonprivileged account, when a shutdown/reboot was necessary e.g. after a patch installation, from a DECTerm window logged in as system, shutdown will be killed because the underlying process holding the DECTerm window terminated. I won't test it, but I suppose it is still true. Therefore I always shutdown detached. -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:33:17 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Login.template silly problem... Message-ID: <48e54d3f$0$1565$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Joseph Huber wrote: > I believe a DECWindows session under a privileged account can do a shutdown. A decterm window on a workstation connected to the VMS host via TCPIP will be killed when the VMS host runs the TCPIP$SHUTDOWN. A decterm window connected via local transport to its own node will survive all the way to the end of the shutdown. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:53:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Subject: Martin Fink Webcast - Blades in a Mission Critical Computing Environment Enviro Message-ID: Dear Newsgroup, Please spread the word on this webcast. This Blades webcast is a kickoff of a sequence and is cross operating system. Warm Regards, Sue ________________________ After a successful and popular webcast in 2007, Martin Fink will once again present to the Connect Community on =93Blades in a Mission Critical Computing Environment=94. Join us on Wednesday 8 October 2008 at 11:00 a.m. CDT as Martin looks at the overall value of blades to a business. A BladeSystem is an infrastructure in a box proven to save time, power and money in data centers large and small. HP's overall blade strategy and portfolio will be highlighted. Find out more information at: http://www.connect-community.org/Events/Webcasts/MartinFink= Webcast/tabid/180/Default.aspx Registration Register for this Webcast using the following instructions: 1) Click on 'First Time Users Click Here To Register' 2) Please use hpconnect as your signup password 3) Complete the demographic information and create a User ID and password for yourself; it is important that you remember this information as you will need it when you log into the Website for the Webcast. 4) Once you have created your ID and Password, you will be directed to the Webcast registration tool, 5) Select =91Course Catalog=92 and click on the Martin Fink Blades Webcast 6) At the bottom of the screen, select the webcast and then click =91sign up for course=92 Webcast Description Blades are hot! Blades are being adopted by business at phenomenal rates; blades are one of the hottest areas in IT infrastructures. Now we are seeing the next step in blades: the move towards mission critical computing. In this webinar, we will look at the overall value of blades to a business. A BladeSystem is an infrastructure in a box proven to save time, power and money in data centers large and small. HP's overall blade strategy and portfolio will be highlighted. From there, we will examine the advantages of transitioning a mission critical environment to HP BladeSystem. HP holds the #1 market share position for EPIC/RISC blades and we will illustrate how customers are successfully deploying a bladed infrastructure for their mission critical solutions. This webinar will set the stage for a series of six sessions over the next six months that dives deeper into how HP Integrity blades are ideal for mission critical computing. During this period we will look at running HP-UX and OpenVMS on Integrity blades as well as take a deeper dive into the recent Integrity NonStop BladeSystem announcement. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 23:50:41 +0200 From: "H Vlems" Subject: Re: MicroVAX model 3100 on 208V 3-phase power Message-ID: <48e54230$0$20129$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl> "AEF" schreef in bericht news:4e1c5938-3bfd-4823-97ac-dacf7249f0e3@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... > > Just in case anyone's interested, it works! My MicroVAX fleet has been > running fine since 14-JUL-2008. No power supplies have been fried so > far. > > AEF Umm, mine run on 230 V single phase... I'm not familiar with US mains power supplies. In the Netherlands we have single and 3-phase. 3-phase is: three live wires, one neutral and one ground. Five wires in total. Single phase is either just two wires, live and neutral or three: live, neutral and ground. There is no potential difference between the three live wires, though (since it's AC) they are out of phase. So, using a 3-phase connector (in the Netherlands), I can select one live wire, plus neutral and ground and run any domestic device on it without a problem, be it a VAX, an Alpha or a toaster. Unless US models have a different wiring scheme I fail to see how you can connect three live wires to a 3100? Hans ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:29:26 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: MicroVAX model 3100 on 208V 3-phase power Message-ID: <0d14e1e6-841e-4852-808c-47d1b308dd0a@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 2, 6:50 pm, "H Vlems" wrote: > "AEF" schreef in berichtnews:4e1c5938-3bfd-4823-97ac-dacf7249f0e3@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... > > > > > Just in case anyone's interested, it works! My MicroVAX fleet has been > > running fine since 14-JUL-2008. No power supplies have been fried so > > far. > > > AEF > > Umm, mine run on 230 V single phase... > I'm not familiar with US mains power supplies. In the Netherlands we have > single and 3-phase. > 3-phase is: three live wires, one neutral and one ground. Five wires in > total. Single phase is either just two wires, live and neutral or three: > live, neutral and ground. > There is no potential difference between the three live wires, though > (since it's AC) they are out of phase. > So, using a 3-phase connector (in the Netherlands), I can select one live > wire, plus neutral and ground and run any domestic device on it without a > problem, be it a VAX, an Alpha or a toaster. > Unless US models have a different wiring scheme I fail to see how you can > connect three live wires to a 3100? > Hans Well, 208 is 120*3**0.5 and 120V is the normal nominal voltage in American households and offices. They tell me it's 208V 3-phase. I have a power cord that has three prongs surrounded by a sleeve. I plug that into the power strip mounted just inside the door frame of the cabinet and it works! It looks like your 3-phase and my 3-phase are two different creatures. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:30:28 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: In article <6kkfbiF89p6oU1@mid.individual.net>, Michael Unger writes: > > [...] Even in the PC world for USB 2.0 disks I see things peaking > > at 15 or so Mbytes a second. > > That's consistant with my own observations (Win2k SP4, WinXP SP2) -- for > USB hard disks as well as card readers. I didn't know any OS supported card readers anymore---much less at 15 Mb/s. Let's see, that would be about 25 million cards per second! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:05:41 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: <6kkkr4F8f87iU1@mid.individual.net> On 2008-10-02 20:30, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote: > In article <6kkfbiF89p6oU1@mid.individual.net>, Michael Unger > writes: > >> > [...] Even in the PC world for USB 2.0 disks I see things peaking >> > at 15 or so Mbytes a second. >> >> That's consistant with my own observations (Win2k SP4, WinXP SP2) -- for >> USB hard disks as well as card readers. > > I didn't know any OS supported card readers anymore---much less at 15 > Mb/s. Let's see, that would be about 25 million cards per second! :-) Well -- memory "cards" based on Flash memory rather than on "cards" of punched paper ... Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:21:41 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: Michael Unger wrote: > On 2008-10-02 20:30, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote: > >> In article <6kkfbiF89p6oU1@mid.individual.net>, Michael Unger >> writes: >> >>>> [...] Even in the PC world for USB 2.0 disks I see things peaking >>>> at 15 or so Mbytes a second. >>> That's consistant with my own observations (Win2k SP4, WinXP SP2) -- for >>> USB hard disks as well as card readers. >> I didn't know any OS supported card readers anymore---much less at 15 >> Mb/s. Let's see, that would be about 25 million cards per second! :-) > > Well -- memory "cards" based on Flash memory rather than on "cards" of > punched paper ... > Well, some of us old farts remember cards! If I excavated deeply enough in my junk heap, I might even find a registration gauge! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:32:07 -0700 From: Malcolm Dunnett Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: <48e52fc7$1@flight> forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam wrote: >> I certainly don't get full USB2 speeds with the HP Personal Media 500GB >> drives on a zx6000. I can read/write these drives at about 6MBytes/second >> (calculated by an image backup of 88Gbytes that took 4 hours). > > That is about as good as it is going to get. Mind you I'm not complaining - 6MB/s is adequate for my purposes and at < $150 for the drive the price is certainly right. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 23:55:26 +0200 From: "H Vlems" Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: <48e5434d$0$20351$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl> "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" schreef in bericht news:gc3404$42g$1@online.de... > In article <6kkfbiF89p6oU1@mid.individual.net>, Michael Unger > writes: > >> > [...] Even in the PC world for USB 2.0 disks I see things >> > peaking >> > at 15 or so Mbytes a second. >> >> That's consistant with my own observations (Win2k SP4, WinXP SP2) -- for >> USB hard disks as well as card readers. > > I didn't know any OS supported card readers anymore---much less at 15 > Mb/s. Let's see, that would be about 25 million cards per second! :-) > Phillips, I had to read that twice before understanding you were referring to a CR11 :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:43:52 +0100 From: Mark McIntyre Subject: Re: OT: USA the fleecing of USA banks by Wall Street Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > BUT, for anyone to really understand, they first need to understand just > what money is. I doubt that many do. I've tried to get people to look > at this without the political blinders of accusation but they refuse to > look at it objectively because the answer is so outlandish they find it > incredulous. I agree with what you're saying, but "incredulous" doesn't mean what I think you think it means... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:15:02 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: USA the fleecing of USA banks by Wall Street Message-ID: <00A8084B.A23BAD8F@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , Mark McIntyre writes: >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> BUT, for anyone to really understand, they first need to understand just >> what money is. I doubt that many do. I've tried to get people to look >> at this without the political blinders of accusation but they refuse to >> look at it objectively because the answer is so outlandish they find it >> incredulous. > >I agree with what you're saying, but "incredulous" doesn't mean what I >think you think it means... As far as I knew, it meant 'unwilling to be or not able to be believed'. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:39:21 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: USA the fleecing of USA banks by Wall Street Message-ID: <951bdbee-5d8d-40eb-9bdf-8aecc46c9add@q9g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Oct 2, 8:15 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , Mark McIntyre writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > >> BUT, for anyone to really understand, they first need to understand just > >> what money is. I doubt that many do. I've tried to get people to look > >> at this without the political blinders of accusation but they refuse to > >> look at it objectively because the answer is so outlandish they find it > >> incredulous. > > >I agree with what you're saying, but "incredulous" doesn't mean what I > >think you think it means... > > As far as I knew, it meant 'unwilling to be or not able to be believed'. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright > notice, disclaimer and quotations. By the symmetric law of equality, if a = b, than b = a. Therefore, since time = money, money = time. So how does this help? Going off on a bit of a tangent: This reminds me of an episode of The Far Side in which you see Einstein standing back and looking at the result of having scribbled a bunch of equations on a blackboard with the last one on the bottom right saying t = $ [or it might have been "time = $"] with the caption: "Einstein discovering that time really is money". [or something like that] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:41:23 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: USB device development on DS10 via Belkin f5U220 - OpenVMS 8.3 with 7.3-1 SR Message-ID: "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" writes: > If you look in sys$examples there is a USB section. There is a document >on using UGDRIVER. If you look in there you will find a really complete and >detailed write up on how devices get matched. Forrest, you mentioned in another post that you didn't get any feedback or bug reports re your usb driver. Well I have something. Your UG_EXAMPLE in SYS$EXAMPLES is a little program for Rat Shack terminal adapters. Not having that I tried it with a Digiboard 16 port terminal mux, changing the vender ID as needed. For the SENSMODE $QIO specifying UG$_GET_PIPE_COUNT I get an absurd value returned. In addition the UG$_GET_PIPE_HANDLES calls ACCVIOs even if I patch the pipe count to a reasonable value. Are the USB QIOs specific to the specific terminal adapter or for any USB widget? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:27:31 -0400 From: "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" Subject: Re: USB device development on DS10 via Belkin f5U220 - OpenVMS 8.3 with 7.3-1 SR Message-ID: "Michael Moroney" wrote in message news:gc3blj$mmq$2@pcls4.std.com... > "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" writes: > >> If you look in sys$examples there is a USB section. There is a >> document >>on using UGDRIVER. If you look in there you will find a really complete >>and >>detailed write up on how devices get matched. > > Forrest, you mentioned in another post that you didn't get any feedback or > bug reports re your usb driver. Well I have something. > > Your UG_EXAMPLE in SYS$EXAMPLES is a little program for Rat Shack terminal > adapters. Not having that I tried it with a Digiboard 16 port terminal > mux, changing the vender ID as needed. For the SENSMODE $QIO specifying > UG$_GET_PIPE_COUNT I get an absurd value returned. In addition the > UG$_GET_PIPE_HANDLES calls ACCVIOs even if I patch the pipe count to a > reasonable value. Are the USB QIOs specific to the specific terminal > adapter or for any USB widget? > The digi device is werid in so many ways as to not be funny. You have to do a whole raft of setup steps before the data it gives back make any sense. This is one of those cases where you cannot extrapolate how device X needs to be treated for device Y. The get pipe count data is just the number the device returns in it's interface descriptor. So if it gave UG garbage I give you garbage. In the case of the digi I know until it gets set up correctly much of the data it returns is not to be trusted. If you get a crash from get pipe handles I would like to see it. If you have a support contract file a problem report as well. Makes it easier to get a fix checked in. In either case I need to see the dump. Forrest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:32:43 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: What is a process' current WSxxxxx quotas ? Message-ID: <5ea78519-1663-42c7-a75b-2f2c210f3199@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Oct 2, 12:59 pm, "Jilly" wrote: > Here are the items that you want from the F$GETJPI lexical > > WSEXTENT - The largest that the Working Set List can become > WSQUOTA - The WSL quota > DFWSCNT - The default WSL size > WSSIZE - The current size of the WSL > > PPGCNT - The number of pages of physical memory in the WSL that are private > to this process > GPGCNT - The number of pages of physical memory in the WSL that may be > shared with other processes on the system. > > WSSIZE will begin at DFWSCNT and can grow up to WSEXTENT > PPGCNT + GPGCNT will alwyas be equal or less than WSSIZE > > Remember that VMS is a demand paging system, processes are NEVER given > memory to use, processes must request memory. This is exactly what WORKSET.COM uses. JF, is this what you want or what?! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:48:23 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: What is a process' current WSxxxxx quotas ? Message-ID: <48e56c83$0$9643$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> AEF wrote: > On Oct 2, 12:59 pm, "Jilly" wrote: >> Here are the items that you want from the F$GETJPI lexical >> >> WSEXTENT - The largest that the Working Set List can become > JF, is this what you want or what?! Yep, thanks. Allows me to see the wsextent of another process. With SDA, I didn't quite see the actual WSEXTENT value of the process. This is useful to know if some detached process inherited the UAF quotas of what UIC, or whether it got the PQL quotas. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.533 ************************