INFO-VAX Thu, 06 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 601 Contents: .DIR performance with many versions vs. many unique names ? Re: .DIR performance with many versions vs. many unique names ? Re: MES Serial communication Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? RE: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: Synchronizing SYSUAF between independent machines Re: Synchronizing SYSUAF between independent machines Re: VAX-11/785 microdiagnostics help requested Re: VAX-11/785 microdiagnostics help requested Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:42:22 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: .DIR performance with many versions vs. many unique names ? Message-ID: Hi. Just a quick question... Would there be any difference in performance (lookup, delete and so on) on a directory when using unique names vs. having fewer names but multiple versions ? That is, having the same total number of files in both cases. The actual case is where we want to save batch logs for some time, and I would like to give them unique names (adding a timestamp) instead of just having a lot of old "versions". The issue is of course having versions rolling up to the max version... Maybe having multiple versions of the same file is stored in less space in the .DIR file then having unique names !? Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:49:39 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: .DIR performance with many versions vs. many unique names ? Message-ID: On Nov 6, 4:42=A0pm, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > Maybe having multiple versions of the same file is > stored in less space in the .DIR file then having > unique names !? Correct. Each additional version takes just 8 bytes (untill a block is full) Each new directory entry takes 4 + filename + 8. Just create a dierctory with a few examples and DUMP/DIR xxx.DIR Also... if you can add a 'proper' date stams in always ascending order (YYYYMMDD or even YYMMDD in this case.) That way it will be easier to add room if needed. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 01:08:29 -0800 (PST) From: H Vlems Subject: Re: MES Serial communication Message-ID: <20ea7c0c-4d0d-4861-bb29-c556cbfe4eaf@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com> On 5 nov, 10:30, hans.van.buite...@philips.com wrote: > Thanks for your replys, i think i have something to chew on. > Guess i will try it the hardware way and/or use contrl Hans, als ik kan helpen laat het maar weten. Hans Vlems ------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 2008 14:15:07 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: <6ngcfbFli3o0U1@mid.individual.net> In article , "John Vottero" writes: > "Jan-Erik Söderholm" wrote in message > news:UopQk.3885$U5.24340@newsb.telia.net... >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >>> >>>> The SPD (Software Product Description) for HP BASIC is >>>> reasonable clear on the licensing options. In IA64, the >>>> "Concurrent Use License" is the only option available, >>> >>> Then $2400 for a single concurrent use is pretty expensive. >> >> I took a quick look at prices for PC/Windows compilers >> (yes, some might include an IDE and so on, but anyway) >> at a large swedish distributor. And if you need "PRO" >> development tools, they are priced at similar levels. > > You are comparing apples to oranges. The HP BASIC compiler is a command > line tool. The command line C# and VB .NET compilers are free. In fact, > the Express edition of Visual Studio is also free and it is way better than > LSE ever was. You don't need to buy the high end editions of Visual Studio > unless you need things like source code control, multi language environments > etc. You can compare the various editions of Visual Studio here: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vsts2008/products/cc149003.aspx > > They range in price from zero to around $10,000 (per person). If you want > to try and compare that with HP products, you have to compare it to a bundle > of BASIC, C, C++, LSE, CMS, DTM, PCA, Rdb and web development tools that HP > doesn't even have. > >> >> It would be interesting to see the difference on Alpha >> for "Personal Use" (I think it was called "Named User" >> at some time) vs. "Concurrent Use". "Personal Use" is >> more like what you get when you buy PC compilers, at >> least from a licensing point of view. Concurrent Use >> is actualy a wider license then standard PC-type licenses. >> >> No, I do not think it's particular expensive. >> >> And, as an hobbyist, you can use it will full >> functionality for free. > > You can use the Express Edition of Microsoft products to develop commercial > products. > >> >>> >>> I know that HP apologists will point to DSPP where compilers are dirt >>> cheap. But for people who do development in-house, they don't qualify >>> for DSPP and forcing them to pay those horrendous prices is not right. > > I hear this all the time but, has anyone ever been turned down for > membership in DSPP? That is actually irrelevant. If one knows one doesn't meet the defined requirements for membership but joins and uses the facilities anyway, that is dishonest. No different than using the Hobbyist Program to develop in-house software for your business. Some people's personal moral code doesn't allow this. It was the biggest problem I had with the official HP Education Program. I was constantly being told, "Don't worry about what the license actually says, what you want to do is OK". bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:12:40 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED84B2D79@GVW1158EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:28 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of > $2400.00??? > > Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > > > The SPD (Software Product Description) for HP BASIC is > > reasonable clear on the licensing options. In IA64, the > > "Concurrent Use License" is the only option available, > > Then $2400 for a single concurrent use is pretty expensive. > > I know that HP apologists will point to DSPP where compilers are dirt > cheap. But for people who do development in-house, they don't qualify > for DSPP and forcing them to pay those horrendous prices is not right. So I guess the Enterprise Oracle licensing at $40K USD/cpu (not system) or BEA at $10K per cpu must really upset you then? :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:20:39 -0800 (PST) From: Ramon Jimenez Subject: Re: Synchronizing SYSUAF between independent machines Message-ID: Thanks to all for you answers, Now I need to check options and take a decission. This system has a low number of users and there are very few changes. Again thans to all ------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 2008 07:47:10 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Synchronizing SYSUAF between independent machines Message-ID: In article , Ramon Jimenez writes: > Thanks to all for you answers, > > Now I need to check options and take a decission. > > This system has a low number of users and there are very few changes. SYSUAF changes every time someone logs in, starts a network job, or starts a batch job. Do you need that info consistent, or just usernames, privileges, UICs, passwords, and rightslist? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:37:59 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: VAX-11/785 microdiagnostics help requested Message-ID: Rich Alderson skrev: > jan.andersson@axfood.se writes: > >> I have worked with VAXes a long time ago and I don't remember any TEST >> command. > >> What one do is to boot the diagnostic floppy to get Diagnostic >> Supervisor prompt. >> Do you have a DS> prompt? > >> Do you have this manual? >> http://vt100.net/mirror/hcps/ds780ug2.pdf > > Thank you for your advice. We cannot successfully boot the Diagnostic > Supervisor diskette, and are looking into why that might be. One of the > other tools provided is the "Micro Diagnostics Floppy #1", part number > AS-E158S-DE, which tests such things as whether the WCS is working at all. > This is invoked from the >>> prompt with the TEST command, according to the > installation manual. > > So I'm sorry that you've never heard of it. That does not mean that it does > not exist, of course. Do you know how much, if any similarity exists with the 86x0 machines here, Rich? I don't have much on the 11/78[05], but I do have a lot of stuff on the 86x0... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: iking@killthewabbit.org Subject: Re: VAX-11/785 microdiagnostics help requested Message-ID: <9bbcb9bf-1b27-4179-9094-88f405aa3907@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Nov 3, 5:25=A0pm, Rich Alderson wrote: > jan.anders...@axfood.se writes: > > =A0I have worked with VAXes a long time ago and I don't remember any TE= ST > > =A0command. > > =A0What one do is to boot the diagnostic floppy to get Diagnostic > > =A0Supervisor prompt. > > =A0Do you have a DS> prompt? > > =A0Do you have this manual? > > =A0http://vt100.net/mirror/hcps/ds780ug2.pdf > > Thank you for your advice. =A0We cannot successfully boot the Diagnostic > Supervisor diskette, and are looking into why that might be. =A0One of th= e > other tools provided is the "Micro Diagnostics Floppy #1", part number > AS-E158S-DE, which tests such things as whether the WCS is working at all= . > This is invoked from the >>> prompt with the TEST command, according to t= he > installation manual. > The TEST command lives on in the MicroVAX boot ROM, as well. We've discovered the listing for the diagnostic monitor (thanks, Bitsavers!) and this is the command string to run the initial, low-level diagnostics that, as Rich states, check basic functionality of the control store and console interface. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:53:41 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <01229547$0$20666$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> IanMiller wrote: > On Oct 21, 9:14 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one >> by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone >> does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he >> is no longer aboard. >> >> Anyone else having similar feelings ? >> >> Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no >> longer participating here ? > > > Perhaps more people have given up due to the poor signal to noise > ratio. IMO the SNR has improved over the last year, or more (with one or two exceptions) but perhaps only because the noise power has decreased more quickly than the signal. I'd say ITRC is getting the lion's share of new technical queries and (new?) VMS participation. Pity it's closed, skunkworks and unrepresentative (and *that* interface). It's also likely that c.o.v. has already reached a critical threshold. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 02:19:20 -0800 (PST) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <37134c59-89aa-4b64-a5a9-81ecd87127a8@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> On 6 Nov, 08:23, Mark Daniel wrote: > IanMiller wrote: > > On Oct 21, 9:14 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > >> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one > >> by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone > >> does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice h= e > >> is no longer aboard. > > >> Anyone else having similar feelings ? > > >> Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no > >> longer participating here ? > > > Perhaps more people have given up due to the poor signal to noise > > ratio. > > IMO the SNR has improved over the last year, or more (with one or two > exceptions) but perhaps only because the noise power has decreased more > quickly than the signal. =A0I'd say ITRC is getting the lion's share of > new technical queries and (new?) VMS participation. =A0Pity it's closed, > skunkworks and unrepresentative (and *that* interface). It's also likely > that c.o.v. has already reached a critical threshold. Closed? skunkworks - perhaps unrepresentative? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 22:22:16 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <0122c629$0$20648$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> IanMiller wrote: > On 6 Nov, 08:23, Mark Daniel wrote: >> IanMiller wrote: >>> On Oct 21, 9:14 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >>>> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one >>>> by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone >>>> does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he >>>> is no longer aboard. >>>> Anyone else having similar feelings ? >>>> Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no >>>> longer participating here ? >>> Perhaps more people have given up due to the poor signal to noise >>> ratio. >> IMO the SNR has improved over the last year, or more (with one or two >> exceptions) but perhaps only because the noise power has decreased more >> quickly than the signal. I'd say ITRC is getting the lion's share of >> new technical queries and (new?) VMS participation. Pity it's closed, >> skunkworks and unrepresentative (and *that* interface). It's also likely >> that c.o.v. has already reached a critical threshold. > > Closed? One repository controlled by a hegemony. > skunkworks - perhaps AIUI; not 'officially' sanctioned or supported by mainstream HP. Supposedly explains the lack of investment in the HMI. > unrepresentative? I tried to ascertain why an announcement of a new release of soyMAIL had been pulled from the site. As with all lotteries - no correspondence will be entered into. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.601 ************************