INFO-VAX Wed, 12 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 612 Contents: Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation RE: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Re: SFF (Send From File) Utility Re: SFF (Send From File) Utility Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:55:22 -0800 (PST) From: sean@obanion.us Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <3ce0cd98-dde7-4f38-b882-b7b4f27c165b@r37g2000prr.googlegroups.com> I would probably try the SIMH VAX emulator first, since it's free, as proof of concept and test the migration strategy, because that may be the hardest part. Since this is an HSC / CI cluster, it's unlikely that any of the existing hardware will connect to a new system, so moving the data may have to use the 10BASE Ethernet (though I'm guessing that they on Ethernet?). Use just about any platform you want, but getting enough disk space to have a real test can be problematic. I'd probably create a new root for the SIMH emulator in the existing cluster as a non-voting member and network boot it, then either shadow copy (if you have that licensed) or BACKUP to copy a couple of volumes for timing tests to get a handle on how long it will take to move everything. Then if there is enough disk space, try the application on the emulator using the copied data. Licensing can be an issue: as long as no "real" production is executed it might be tolerable to use the Hobbyist license for the emulator for evaluating the approach, but I would check my licenses to see if I could borrow something I already own, or talk to my field service or sales rep. for some temporary licenses. Then if the proof of concept works out, the costs of getting everything supported (Charon, licenses on support...) can be put into perspective. Sean On Nov 11, 8:39=A0am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bob Gezelter [mailto:gezel...@rlgsc.com] > > Sent: November 11, 2008 10:36 AM > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Emulation > > > On Nov 11, 6:26 am, "Tim Wilkinson" wrote: > > > Well tell me how good/bad it is. > > > > At home I play with simh and have never had a problem. However, my > > employers > > > still have a cluster with a pair of 6100 for legacy data and about 4 > > > interactive users. It is costing us about =A330,000 per annum to > > maintain/run. > > > > They are clustered for resilience but the HSC went down for 1/2 a day > > last > > > month which is making the internal customer uneasy about reliability. > > We did > > > have a spare HSC but the maintenance company insisted in shipping in > > parts > > > rather than use an unknown controller that had been sat in a store > > room for > > > 6 years. > > > > So the customer is asking about moving it all to virtualisation. > > Guess we > > > have oversold our VMWare setup. > > > > First issue is that we should be clear of our legal requirement on > > data > > > retention in about 18 months, and the only =A0live app should have be= en > > > replaced by then. Therefore it does not make sense to install new > > dedicated > > > hardware for 18 months. We do not have sources for the two main > > legacy > > > applications and the vendors ceased trading some years ago. Hence I > > have > > > suggested to my employers the emulation route, and would guess they > > would > > > opt towards a Charon solution as they are still very wary of open > > source and > > > a perceived lack of support and/or problem ownership etc. > > > > What is the opinion out there in the land of real users, how > > quick/involved > > > is it to set up an emulated VAX system? (I know I did it with simh in > > a > > > couple of hours and I had not touched VMS for at least 10 years). > > What sort > > > of host platform is required in the real world? What lessons did the > > people > > > who have replaced VAX hardware with emulation learn? and what > > mistakes? > > > > I guess if we do opt for an emulation based replacement I would end > > up being > > > the PM. and having raised the issue, suggested a potential solution I > > would > > > be keen to avoid egg on my face if reliability/cost of ownership etc. > > fail > > > to meet expectation. > > > > We have a history of under estimating project costs/ complexity in > > order to > > > make the transition through mahogany row and I am keen that this is > > not > > > another typical =A0project =A0by identifying all risk/costs early. > > > > Any advice you guys out there can offer would be appreciated. > > Remember this > > > is very early days. No project has yet been identified/sanctioned > > etc. > > > Tim, > > > An emulated environment can deal quite well with preserving access to > > environments without keeping the old hardware online. The first two > > questions that I always ask are: > > > - What utilization is currently? > > - Are there any non disk peripherals involved? > > > Hardware today is sufficiently fast that most circa-6100 VAX > > environments fit within a reasonable small server/blade package. I do > > recommend purchasing high quality hardware (e.g., ECC, etc.) as that > > can be a problem in the x86 world. > > > I also recommend checking out the environment BEFORE committing to it > > to guard against unforeseen hazards. Many older systems are not > > documented and can produce surprises. > > > - Bob Gezelter,http://www.rlgsc.com > > If doing the Charon option, while it certainly is a good prod, if you > want to avoid any surprises in the business case (as you indicated), I > would also recommend getting a quote from a Charon partner as the costs > are often far greater than what most expect e.g. for VAX 6xxx emulation, > expect greater than $100K license + annual support costs for one VAX > 6xxx server emulation license. > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-254-8911 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:03:06 -0800 (PST) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: On 11 Nov, 11:26, "Tim Wilkinson" wrote: > Well tell me how good/bad it is. > > At home I play with simh and have never had a problem. However, my employ= ers > still have a cluster with a pair of 6100 for legacy data and about 4 > interactive users. It is costing us about =A330,000 per annum to maintain= /run. > > They are clustered for resilience but the HSC went down for 1/2 a day las= t > month which is making the internal customer uneasy about reliability. We = did > have a spare HSC but the maintenance company insisted in shipping in part= s > rather than use an unknown controller that had been sat in a store room f= or > 6 years. > > So the customer is asking about moving it all to virtualisation. Guess we > have oversold our VMWare setup. > > First issue is that we should be clear of our legal requirement on data > retention in about 18 months, and the only =A0live app should have been > replaced by then. Therefore it does not make sense to install new dedicat= ed > hardware for 18 months. We do not have sources for the two main legacy > applications and the vendors ceased trading some years ago. Hence I have > suggested to my employers the emulation route, and would guess they would > opt towards a Charon solution as they are still very wary of open source = and > a perceived lack of support and/or problem ownership etc. > > What is the opinion out there in the land of real users, how quick/involv= ed > is it to set up an emulated VAX system? (I know I did it with simh in a > couple of hours and I had not touched VMS for at least 10 years). What so= rt > of host platform is required in the real world? What lessons did the peop= le > who have replaced VAX hardware with emulation learn? and what mistakes? > > I guess if we do opt for an emulation based replacement I would end up be= ing > the PM. and having raised the issue, suggested a potential solution I wou= ld > be keen to avoid egg on my face if reliability/cost of ownership etc. fai= l > to meet expectation. > > We have a history of under estimating project costs/ complexity in order = to > make the transition through mahogany row and I am keen that this is not > another typical =A0project =A0by identifying all risk/costs early. > > Any advice you guys out there can offer would be appreciated. Remember th= is > is very early days. No project has yet been identified/sanctioned etc. Don't forget HP will want you to buy a transfer licence ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:22:56 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <4919e9b5$0$8580$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> sean@obanion.us vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 19:55: > I would probably try the SIMH VAX emulator first, since it's free, as > proof of concept and test the migration strategy, because that may be > the hardest part. Since this is an HSC / CI cluster, it's unlikely > that any of the existing hardware will connect to a new system, so > moving the data may have to use the 10BASE Ethernet (though I'm > guessing that they on Ethernet?). [snip] This issue has been beaten to death here and elsewhere. You cannot run commercial VMS on SIMH, without violating your VMS license. VMS can only run on HP's VAX/Alpha/Itanium hardware, and on the CHARON platform provided you buy a transfer license from HP. /Wilm [yes I 'm a CHARON reseller, but I will not profit from this particular deal. Hate the FUD though.] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:27:40 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <4919ead1$0$8598$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> Main, Kerry vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 17:39: [snip snip] > If doing the Charon option, while it certainly is a good prod, if you > want to avoid any surprises in the business case (as you indicated), I > would also recommend getting a quote from a Charon partner as the costs > are often far greater than what most expect e.g. for VAX 6xxx emulation, > expect greater than $100K license + annual support costs for one VAX > 6xxx server emulation license. C'mon Kerry, yuo know better. You don't need a CHARON 6x00 license to replace a VAX 6x00. You need a CHARON license that will do the job, i.e. present memory, disk and CPU capacity to the remaining users. With current Intel/AMD hardware, CHARON on Windows runs rings around any 6x00, 7x00 whatever VAX. It's not free, indeed, but in most cases affordable. /Wilm [yes, I'm a CHARON reseller, sold dozens of CHARON-VAX and -Alpha licenses to very happy customers, and made it work for them. I will not profit from this particular deal though] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:34:31 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Emulation Message-ID: <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED9531318@GVW1158EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Wilm Boerhout [mailto:w6.boerhout@planet.nl] > Sent: November 11, 2008 3:28 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Emulation > > Main, Kerry vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 17:39: > [snip snip] > > > If doing the Charon option, while it certainly is a good prod, if you > > want to avoid any surprises in the business case (as you indicated), > I > > would also recommend getting a quote from a Charon partner as the > costs > > are often far greater than what most expect e.g. for VAX 6xxx > emulation, > > expect greater than $100K license + annual support costs for one VAX > > 6xxx server emulation license. > > > C'mon Kerry, yuo know better. You don't need a CHARON 6x00 license to > replace a VAX 6x00. You need a CHARON license that will do the job, > i.e. > present memory, disk and CPU capacity to the remaining users. With > current Intel/AMD hardware, CHARON on Windows runs rings around any > 6x00, 7x00 whatever VAX. It's not free, indeed, but in most cases > affordable. > > /Wilm > > [yes, I'm a CHARON reseller, sold dozens of CHARON-VAX and -Alpha > licenses to very happy customers, and made it work for them. I will not > profit from this particular deal though] Perhaps, but we don't know the workload (4 users doing cpu intensive or disk intensive workloads? Don't know). In addition, the licenses for lesser models are also still expensive when one considers the app is going away in 18 months. All I am saying is when going down this path, get a real quote based on real workload and associated resource estimation so you can make an informed decision. This quote should include all Charon/HP/third party ISV licenses, new server / storage HW required, consulting, pilots etc. You should also confirm any third party ISV app's are supported and do not require new licenses in such an environment. Fwiw, I recommend the exact same strategy for any Cust on any platform using any virtualization product from any vendor. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:50:54 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:22:56 -0800, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > sean@obanion.us vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 19:55: >> I would probably try the SIMH VAX emulator first, since it's free, as >> proof of concept and test the migration strategy, because that may be >> the hardest part. Since this is an HSC / CI cluster, it's unlikely >> that any of the existing hardware will connect to a new system, so >> moving the data may have to use the 10BASE Ethernet (though I'm >> guessing that they on Ethernet?). > > [snip] > > This issue has been beaten to death here and elsewhere. You cannot run > commercial VMS on SIMH, without violating your VMS license. VMS can only > run on HP's VAX/Alpha/Itanium hardware, and on the CHARON platform > provided you buy a transfer license from HP. That transfer license costs $6K to HP (Not sure if SRI gets any of that) http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html and then there is the cost of the Charon license. But it may still make sense financially > > /Wilm > > [yes I 'm a CHARON reseller, but I will not profit from this particular > deal. Hate the FUD though.] -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:23:21 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <491A13E9.6486.FD7F82@infovax.stanq.com> Gosh, I step out of the room for a while, and WW III breaks out over CHARON-VAX. After donning my Teflon suit, I wade into the fray... I don't know about other CHARON-VAX resellers [Shameless Plug Alert (tm) -- I am a CHARON reseller], but the CHARON-VAX/6610 Plus product DOES NOT sell for $100,000. Even including annual support and a generous amount of migration help, it is still under that figure. Please let me cite a CHARON-VAX/6610 Plus site that is saving $100,000 per year, just in maintenance costs. Not to mention electricity and air conditioning: http://www.stanq.com/wf1.html People buy not on price, but on value -- even a $100,000 emulator makes sense if it avoids $200,000 in headaches. Kerry, I know that you're not big on CHARON-VAX. However, both your job and mine are to develop the best possible solution for a customer. Sometimes migrating to Integrity is the answer, sometimes emulation is the answer. Heck, even rewriting could be the answer (as sad as that might be -- another VMS customer lost). It's not my job to "force" people to adopt CHARON products. I've steered people away from emulation when it didn't make sense. I don't run my business like the old parable, "Give a 3-year-old a hammer and everything needs pounding". --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:08:18 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Message-ID: Quick update... I've now runed a few tests with Peek&Spy. The major problem right now is that is doesn't log data going *in* to VMS if it isn't echo'ed back out. Some security concern (not logging non-echoed passwords) that I can understand, but that breaks my use of it... What I need is something that would give the same logging as if I had attached a RS232/serial line "sniffer" to the actual terminal server port. That is, log everything going in and out no matter the VMS terminal/device settings. That's about Peek&Spy... About CONTRL... I'm currently trying to find a manual for CONTRL, the www.raxco.com site is *very* succesfull in hiding everything having anything with VMS to do. They only wants to sell Disk defraggers for Windows, as far as I understand from the actual web site. If someone could show me how to find anything VMS related by clicking from http://www.raxco.com/ that would be nice. Late update... !! While writing this I got a couple of manuals mailed directly from Raxco... Fine then, now into the manuals. I will first see if the manual tells me something about similar restrictions on the logging as Peek&Spy has. If not I'll try in "live" and we'll see... Thanks for listening... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:06:53 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Message-ID: <3742bb53-0d05-4b9d-b9d0-0237bc44b922@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> On Nov 11, 10:08=A0pm, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > Quick update... > > I've now runed a few tests with Peek&Spy. > > The major problem right now is that is doesn't log > data going *in* to VMS if it isn't echo'ed back out. > > Some security concern (not logging non-echoed passwords) > that I can understand, but that breaks my use of it... > > What I need is something that would give the same logging > as if I had attached a RS232/serial line "sniffer" to > the actual terminal server port. That is, log everything > going in and out no matter the VMS terminal/device settings. > > That's about Peek&Spy... > > About CONTRL... > > I'm currently trying to find a manual for CONTRL, thewww.raxco.comsite is= *very* succesfull in hiding everything > having anything with VMS to do. They only wants to sell > Disk defraggers for Windows, as far as I understand from > the actual web site. > > If someone could show me how to find anything VMS related > by clicking fromhttp://www.raxco.com/that would be nice. > > Late update... !! > > While writing this I got a couple of manuals mailed > directly from Raxco... Fine then, now into the manuals. > > I will first see if the manual tells me something about > similar restrictions on the logging as Peek&Spy has. If not > I'll try in "live" and we'll see... > > Thanks for listening... > Jan-Erik. I'm pleasantly surprised by the lack of negative comments here. It's been a *long* time since I had any involvement with systems using Peek&Spy or similar, but I do remember various adverse effects, from changing IO behaviour (maybe transparently to users, but not always so transparently where machine<>machine comms was involved, which is what you want), all the way down to repeatable system crashers (to the extent that the support folks were reluctant to investigate crash dumps which had evidence of terminal monitoring programs in use). You mention using an actual serial comms analyser. I presume that's not really practical for you? In case CONTRL and Peek&Spy don't work out for your machine comms needs: rather than intercepting the terminal driver IO, how about something that decodes and logs the relevant Ethernet packets for you? Is tcpdump available on your VMS systems, can it be made to do anything like what you need? Both Multinet and HP stacks do have a version of tcpdump, but I'm not aware of its detailed capabilities. If tcpdump doesn't suit, how about a separate LAN-connected box with Wireshark/Ethereal? There doesn't seem to be a VMS version just now, but there are versions for many other OSes, including ones which you will likely have around. Note that you must connect the Wireshark/ Ethereal box somewhere it will actually see the relevant packets (cheap/dumb switches may not forward the traffic you want to the port you're monitoring on). Neither of these is as elegant as a traditional interactive terminal monitoring application, but you're not really doing typical interactive terminal monitoring. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:58:14 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Message-ID: <00A827B7.E9BB2082@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >Quick update... > >I've now runed a few tests with Peek&Spy. > >The major problem right now is that is doesn't log >data going *in* to VMS if it isn't echo'ed back out. > >Some security concern (not logging non-echoed passwords) >that I can understand, but that breaks my use of it... > >What I need is something that would give the same logging >as if I had attached a RS232/serial line "sniffer" to >the actual terminal server port. That is, log everything >going in and out no matter the VMS terminal/device settings. > >That's about Peek&Spy... > > >About CONTRL... > >I'm currently trying to find a manual for CONTRL, the >www.raxco.com site is *very* succesfull in hiding everything >having anything with VMS to do. They only wants to sell >Disk defraggers for Windows, as far as I understand from >the actual web site. > >If someone could show me how to find anything VMS related >by clicking from http://www.raxco.com/ that would be nice. > >Late update... !! > >While writing this I got a couple of manuals mailed >directly from Raxco... Fine then, now into the manuals. > >I will first see if the manual tells me something about >similar restrictions on the logging as Peek&Spy has. If not >I'll try in "live" and we'll see... > >Thanks for listening... >Jan-Erik. If you have any specific questions re CONTRL, feel free to ask me. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:19:54 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: SFF (Send From File) Utility Message-ID: <0005d3ef$0$2562$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Michael D. Ober wrote: > appears to send a message per recipient domain even though we're using the > alternate gateway in the SMTP configuration. If you stop the SMTP queues, and then run your message against SFF, does it generate multiple jobs into the queue or just one job ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:04:35 -0700 From: "Michael D. Ober" Subject: Re: SFF (Send From File) Utility Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:0005d3ef$0$2562$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > Michael D. Ober wrote: >> appears to send a message per recipient domain even though we're using >> the >> alternate gateway in the SMTP configuration. > > > If you stop the SMTP queues, and then run your message against SFF, does > it generate multiple jobs into the queue or just one job ? > IF, Good catch. Only a single message was queued. Apparently the split is occurring in either our Exchange server or in the SMTP handler in VMS. Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:09:39 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <491A48F3.5F9A2F28@spam.comcast.net> "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu] > > Sent: November 10, 2008 11:15 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? > > > > In article <3wmmutDb+s6e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > > In article <0003b6c1$0$2534$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > > writes: > > >> > > >> Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS > > wither > > >> away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK > > >> means that HP doesn't lose the customer. > > > > > > HP has lots of products that can fill many niches where VMS is an > > > option. But there are niches where VMS and not UNIX, Windows, or > > > even Tandem is an option. > > > > Not enough of them to even count. And certainly not enough to justify > > investing any money in the advancement of VMS. If it were othewrwise, > > we wouldn't always be coming back to this same discusion. > > > > bill > > > > > > Yeah, you are likely right - > > I mean how much money is there really in these small markets like banks, > telecom, manufacturing, stock exchanges, education, transportation, retail, > utility and military markets anyway? > > :-) The question is: how much of that money still "belongs" to OpenVMS? D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:19:56 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <491A4B5C.6F2D8B97@spam.comcast.net> "Main, Kerry" wrote: > [snip] > > Let's get real. Yes, the market for OpenVMS is not what it used to be, > but neither is Solaris, AIX or any other major OS. The numbers of those > OS's have all gone down drastically in recent years as well. Um, Kerry? Where do you think all those healthcare sites went? (Hint - General market sentiment is: HP sucks, HP PH-UX.) > Heck, fwiw, almost every Cust I talk to about server and DC consolidation > mentions that they want to move the majority of their Solaris and AIX > environments to Linux. Depends what you need. Currently, if Cerner is supporting their stuff on Linux, it's not a well-known fact. > For awhile, the market was all about distributed solutions, so even > with the large number of monthly security patches and "one bus app, > one OS" culture, Windows and Linux were taking market share from > all the major OS's. Eh - I'd have to say that the ISVs had more to do with that than anything. As we tried pound into DEC's head, Compaq's head and even HP's head, developers develop for platforms that are: - Ubiquitous - Affordable That just about says it all. DEC(Compaq(HP)) failed to respond to that, so here we are. > Yes, there are many reasons and marketing is certainly one of them. > [fill-in additional past gripes about DEC / Compaq here] ...not to mention HP's on-going propagation of those same mistakes of the past. > Now, almost every med to large company is talking about radically > changing their compute model to much more centralized solutions. Well, yes and no. It's still one Windows instance - one app., it's just virtualized since VMware came along to "atone" for the sins of Windows and the MSDN. > Anyway, based on the win reports circulated internally, OpenVMS has > been doing very well. In particular, the Integrity blades with > OpenVMS seems to be gaining popularity. > > As an example: > http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA1-7999ENW.pdf > > http://tinyurl.com/6ybkgg (video testimonial) > > Extract - "Acision uses HP OpenVMS running on HP Integrity servers > & HP Blades to help deliver more than half of the world's text & > multimedia messages & serve three quarters of all videomail users." > > Could it be better? Of course. > > However, it is not as bad as you like to make it out. Had to put my shades back on - too much "sunshine" being blown around here. D.J.D. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.612 ************************